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General Sawing tips for portable sawyers

Started by WV Sawmiller, February 25, 2018, 09:50:02 PM

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caveman

We like keeping wooden wedges on hand as they have several uses.  If you do have to back out of a cut, they can be driven into the kerf of the cant/log.  We do not have hydraulics or toe boards but using the handle of a long canthook as a lever or the scissors jack on a scrap of wood, a wedge can be inserted between the small end of the log and the bed rail to center the pith.  The wedges can also be used between the cam clamp and the log to take up space and to keep the clamp at an angle to give it good clamping leverage.

The foldable aluminum benches like the ones that are sold at Home Depot and Lowes the day after Thanksgiving for $20 will hold a lot more weight than they are rated for and are handy for holding sawn lumber or flitches until edging.

  


Caveman

DDW_OR

I keep a 3x4x6' cedar cant next to the mill for flinches. Cedar because it is light weight.

I will keep 2 or 3 stacks of flinches, one width per stack.
when a stack is full i then make it into lumber.

my operation is dependent on "work smarter not harder", and "let the machines do the work"
"let the machines do the work"

Tom the Sawyer

DDW_OR,

Your T-square should work if the first end of the log is directly over the bunk it is sitting on.  If it extends beyond the bunk, when you raise the other end, the first end will be lower.  On your TK2000, you can get pretty close by raising the stops and sighting so that the top of the log is parallel to the top of the stops.  That is, of course, if you want to mill parallel to the bark. If the log has taper and you are trying to center the pith, then measuring the pith height at each end is more accurate.  Again, if your first measurement is not directly over the bunk, you have to measure it again after tilting the log.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

WV Sawmiller

Chuck,

   I think we are saying and doing the same thing as to our edging techniques then. We are both suggesting using the cant as a stable backbone to keep the flitches upright during edging and leave enough clearance so the blade doesn't touch the cant. 

   A small number of thin, round edged flitches clamped by themselves at a single point tend to flop at each end, lean off square, jump out of the clamps, and generally misbehave badly during edging on the mill.

Cavey,

   When I go to a sawing site I always take 3 plastic felling wedges I use if I have to back out of a cut doing the same thing as your wooden wedges which are very useful to have handy.

    You use folding sawhorses to hold your flitches from your manual mill while, since I have hydraulics I partially lower and use the loading arms for that purpose. I actually tried putting sawhorses next to my mill when I was sawing at home and staged my flitches on them till I was ready to edge them. The advantage was I could edge similar sized flitches reducing the number of cuts  to usually 2 cuts per stack of flitches. The disadvantages were I had to work around the sawhorses and lift and move my flitches further and more often. With my loading arms I just slide the flitch off on to the arms as it is cut and I never really lift it until edging time, if then. I typically have no more than 5-6 flitches off most logs to be edged. If I did not have my hydraulic arms I'd readily embrace and use the folding sawhorses. 

   This is a very good tip for you sawyers doing mobile milling with manual mills.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

climber2

Quote from: DDW_OR on February 27, 2018, 09:39:16 PM
my operation is dependent on "work smarter not harder", and "let the machines do the work"
I like it.
I always tell my workers 'don't be rude to the equipment, let them do the work'
Most just laugh it off, a few catch on...
Timber Harvester 36htd25, 06 Ram 2500 5.9, 95 Chev 3500hd, 445ct Bobcat w/ Wallenstein winch, Bandit 200+, Morbark M12r, Countless chainsaws...

LeeB

I center tapered logs by raising the backstops to the center of the large end and then sight down the log to center the small end. Much faster than a tape measure. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

WV Sawmiller

DDW_OR,

   Are you using a manual or hydraulic mill? As I mentioned above I have gotten too lazy to lift my flitches off the mill since I don't have to. Are you edging against a cant or just edging a large number of flitches at one time? You may be edging faster then I do but I bet I'm doing less lifting. :D

    I'd suggest each of you at least try both methods of edging flitches and see which works best for you. I tried the sawhorses and gang edging of flitches off multiple cants and decided, for me and my equipment, edging off each cant works best. 

   Neither method is right or wrong - just personal preference.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

JB Griffin

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 27, 2018, 05:48:19 PM
Danny,

 It does but it also depends where you read/set/calibrate the arrow on your scale. I have mine set so the kerf is taken from the top of my board. So when I read 1" on my scale there is actually a one inch board left after the cut.
It would still require a 1 1/4" drop to cut a 1 1/8" board. Your cheat sheet from earlier in this thread will not cut hardwood 4/4 lumber. 
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Darrel

If I have good help, I like to save all my flitches until I get quite a few and then gang edge. If I'm working by myself, I edge against the cant for each log. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

DDW_OR

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 27, 2018, 10:58:21 PM
DDW_OR,

  Are you using a manual or hydraulic mill? As I mentioned above I have gotten too lazy to lift my flitches off the mill since I don't have to. Are you edging against a cant or just edging a large number of flitches at one time? You may be edging faster then I do but I bet I'm doing less lifting. :D

   I'd suggest each of you at least try both methods of edging flitches and see which works best for you. I tried the sawhorses and gang edging of flitches off multiple cants and decided, for me and my equipment, edging off each cant works best.

  Neither method is right or wrong - just personal preference.
hydraulic mill with setworks computer

i will try both methods.
"let the machines do the work"

WV Sawmiller

JB,

   You are correct. I would need 1-1/4" on my SS to produce 1-1/8" finished boards. Good catch.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

tawilson

It just doinked on me yesterday that sliding the log away from the backstops after opening up the first 2 faces made it easier to flip it to the next face without getting hung up. I know about the pipe over the backstops trick but I sometimes get twisted up on logs I don't think I should need that for. Any tricks there would be appreciated.
I love threads like this. Thanks.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter
Woodmaster 725

WV Sawmiller

TA,

   What are you calling your first 2 faces? Most of the times I cut the first face then rotate 180 degrees to cut the cant to the thickness which will be the width of my finished boards on my second cut. On smaller logs I will often just rotate 90 degrees then make my second cut.

   I may try nudging the cant away from the side supports to see if it makes it easier for my claw to rotate it.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

tawilson

I usually just rotate 90 degrees and cut again so I'm talking turning it for the third cut with the log clamp so as not too chew up the face with the claw.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter
Woodmaster 725

YellowHammer

If you get the hang of the reverse roll with a hydraulic, you can save some time and be able to rotate the cant both directions. One roll to the right instead of 3 rolls to the left will get you sawing a face faster.  Easyiest technique is to just drop the clamp and slide it under the left side of a square edged cant and raise it while pushing it to the loader arms.  It will flip the cant clockwise, depending on how balanced it is.  If the cant is sliding outboard on the bed rails instead of flipping, raise the claw a hair and use its "chin" as a bump stop on the right side of the cant.  It will cause the cant to trip and roll over to the right, clockwise.  As its rolling over, drop the claw so it wont land on it and stab the face.  Keep the loader arms up until you get the hang of this, as it can flip the cant or log off the mill, but it will be caught on the arms.

Harder in complexity is to drop the backstops and using the clamp, push the cant edge over them, way to the left.  As the cant rides up over the lowered backstops, raise them, all the while continuing to come inboard with the clamp at the same time.  It will snap roll the cant clockwise with authority.  I learned that trick from a Woodmizer Competition Sawyer many years ago.  Be careful not not roll this one off the mill.  This works best with a cant with wane on that bottom left edge, or an unopened face on the bottom left edge, in order to ramp up and ride up and over the left side fixed clamp and short backstop studs.  Sometimes, if the cant is very sharp cornered and I don't want to mess it up, I'll just jack it up and lift it over the folded backstops with the two plane.  It takes longer to explain the moves than to do them.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Darrel

Good stuff YH. now if only I had one of those new clamps that have been out for years instead of the old flip clamp. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Resonator

Great thread! I'm still new to this, but here's 3 things I've learned, that sawyers should tell perspective customers: 1. Dirty logs make dull blades. 2. Branch stubs sticking out of a log don't roll so good. 3. A crooked log is a crooked log, you'll cut off a lot of thick slabs to try to make it straight. Good lumber has to start at the STUMP, not at the sawmill.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

curved-wood

I use a scale on the mill that as both reading :inches and metric on the same rule. I bought it from Woodmizer. When I am sawing furniture grade I use 3 cm to produce 1 1/8'' net. It is easy to remember since it is multiple of 3 : 3,6, 9,etc.  I use .042 blades. The cabinet guy are very happy with that thickness

YellowHammer

Resonator, 
I tell customers it ain't a log until it will roll, and I only saw logs.  Everything else gets returned or trimmed.  

I charge $75 an hour for chainsaw trimming, and $20 minimum just to crank it up.  Believe me, I've seen a few customer chainsaws come out and get fired up real quick.   :D  Customers get prickly and ask why it cost so much for me to run the chainsaw, and I tell them I won't turn the mill on for less than a $100 an hour, so I'm losing $25 an hour when my chainsaw is running and I'm not milling.  Sometimes I'll give a newby a break, but never a second time.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Banjo picker

Welcome to the forestry forum curved-wood.  Where are you from.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

curved-wood

I am from Québec. I just didn't figure out how to get my personal info...yet. It will come.
 I do appreciate very much this forum. So much generosity of the people sharing all that info. Thanks to everybody .
I have a mill for the last 20 years +. Now I am having fun building curved building with a wood structure

starmac

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 28, 2018, 05:56:31 PM
Resonator,
I tell customers it ain't a log until it will roll, and I only saw logs.  Everything else gets returned or trimmed.  

I charge $75 an hour for chainsaw trimming, and $20 minimum just to crank it up.  Believe me, I've seen a few customer chainsaws come out and get fired up real quick.   :D  Customers get prickly and ask why it cost so much for me to run the chainsaw, and I tell them I won't turn the mill on for less than a $100 an hour, so I'm losing $25 an hour when my chainsaw is running and I'm not milling.  Sometimes I'll give a newby a break, but never a second time.  
In all reality if a guy is charging by the hour, he should just charge the same, I would much rather be running the mill than a chainsaw, myself.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

WV Sawmiller

YH,

   Any chance there is a video floating around about the log/cant turning technique you describe? I have never seen this done and am very interested in it. I confess I typically turn my logs/cants counter clockwise with the claw or cant hook. I can see where it would be easy with a chain turner.

   I watched Marty Parsons at a demo one time throwing slabs and flitches off the top of the cant on to the loader arms with the hydraulic clamp. I do think it was a super hydraulic mill as it was much faster than my mill. It was impressive to watch and a real time and labor saver. I could lift the back of my cant with my clamp and the flitch would slide off but not all the way to the loader arms. I typically throw my slabs to the left behind my sawdust pile so there was no advantage to me to toss a slab on the loader arms.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

YellowHammer

Starmac,
I agree with you, I just can't bring myself to charge that much for running a chainsaw. :D Most times it's a minimum charge anyway.  I think it usually comes from the customer being too tired after a long days work cutting trees and yarding logs and I don't think I've ever had to chainsaw logs twice for the same customer.  They get the idea pretty quick.

WV,
Funny you should mention it, throwing slabs to the loader arms, that is how Earl, Woodmizer, showed me the trick.  He was showing me some of his competitive tricks on my mill, a standard fairly slow, by today's standards, LT40, and I was offbearing and a little late getting the slabs off. I was surprised at how fast he was smoking my mill through the logs.  I got behind offbearing, because I was also trying to watch him, and as I was reaching for it, he threw the slab on the loader arms.  He kept sawing and I said whoa, hold on, what just happened?  So he showed me the reverse roll trick with the backstops and clamps.  It took me a little while to get the hang of it and I still cant get the slab or flitch all the way to the loader arms every time, but it's fun trying.  Most times, now I use the technique to flip my flitches to be edged off the cant so I don't have to keep walking up and doing it by hand.  So basically I will cut and drag back the slab, then cut a couple flitches but leave them on the cant.  Then reverse roll the cant, so the flitches slide to the mill deck, maybe all the way to the awaiting loader arms, and then saw the next face which is now facing up.  Even if they only land on the deck next to the cant, it's fine as they are out of the way and I can keep sawing.  Sometimes, I can slab and flitch three faces before I actually have to use my hands or approach the cant.  Saves a lot of time and steps.  Maybe with the faster mills the raising of the backstops aren't even needed, I hadn't thought of that.

I don't have any videos, and haven't seen any on YouTube. I think it will be cool for some of the WM Pros like Marty to make a short video of some of these competition enhancement tricks.  If not, I will try to make a video of it.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

starmac

I have not seen that done, but what sawing I have done, I too pull the slabs and keep the flitches on the loader arms to be edged. I have not been in what a guy would call production mode either though.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

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