Firewood processor, when to jump off the cliff

[Upstatewoodchuc]

Just wondering at what point of production did the gains of a processor outweigh the costs for you guys? 50? 75? 100, 200 cords a year? It seems to get a firewood processor that can pay for itself with production you need to spend a minimum of $30k, everything ive seen below seems to be too far towards the homeowner spectrum. Would like some input from people who have made the jump, obviously every region and circumstances differ, but would like some real world input. Thanks guys.

[barbender]

I bought on last fall, a Dyna SC-14. I bought it used with only 35 hours on it, for around half of new price.  I watched for a decent deal for a long time before the stars lined up. I couldn't justify the $42K for a new unit. To be honest, right now it is more of a convenience for me, it was either get something that can put the wood up fast or quit doing firewood because I just don't have enough time. It has worked well, and the payment is never a problem to make. I don't know how the numbers would look if an accountant got ahold of them, but I would definitely do what I did again. The main problem is that right now is a terrible time to try to find a good deal on a used machine, if you can find one at all. I should also mention that my firewood is a sideline, a sawmill for another sideline, and I still have a full time job. And my wife has a good job (aka Sugah Momma 😁). All of that said, the machine has no problem paying for itself. Whether it would show a profit, I couldn't tell you😊 What it does for me, and could for you as well, is free me up to do other tasks. If you find yourself doing tasks that you should be able to pay someone $10-$15/hr to do (like running a splitter or bucking firewood) because you can't find help, that machine is always available and ready to cut your production time in half or more. 

[jimbarry]

I bought a used Hakki Pilki 37 Easy (full hydraulics). Easy to operate if you have good logs that are reasonably straight. It's fast enough that you need two people to keep it going steady; one at the controls and the other person loading the log deck and taking care of all the misc things necessary to keep a work area smooth operating and safe. The wife and I run ours. Now, if you are splitting right into a truck/trailer and going for delivery, a processor is money well spent. It's less physical labour if you have all of the supporting equipment like a tractor or skidsteer with pallet forks or grapple. But that comes with added operating cost.

Based a heavy mix of big diameter logs like 18", right down to 3" diameter sticks, if you have a decent splitter and don't mind bucking logs right on the pile (like me), I find a 2 person operation can produce near the same volume as that processor at a much less financial cost, but there's a higher physical cost.   If you wanted to compare apples to apples, on a pile of logs all 8-12" diameter, yeah, the processor will be the easier way to go.

At 50 or so cord this year, we put as many hours on the processor as we did on the splitter. The processor is nice to have, but, it's not a deal breaker to have for producing firewood in my opinion. I currently have it for sale.

[moodnacreek]

As with sawmills firewood machines need to match the raw material. Down here they like cord king or large multitec.  Orange co. has big wood often from tree service and that's the worst. Some operators have been paid to clear and haul in the firewood logs. 2 of these operators have $100,000 + machines and do 1000 or more [real, 4'] cords a year

[mike_belben]

If youre resourceful you could build one for $5k and not need to kill yourself producing hundreds of cords.  The more cords the more hours, fuel, repairs.. 

[Upstatewoodchuc]

If youre resourceful you could build one for $5k and not need to kill yourself producing hundreds of cords.  The more cords the more hours, fuel, repairs..

Trust me Mike, I really thought about going that route but time is the issue. Unfortunately I think the time it would take me to build it would just be too much, I recently bought a new (to me) mack dump truck that I've been trying to keep busy and im the only one with a CDl, and have alot of other loose ended projects that need to be finished first. Trust me, I love building stuff and at one point got paid to fabricate daily, but right now I don't know if it makes sense. However the used market is all jacked up and with current fuel prices im sure the processors won't calm down for another 3 to 4 years...

[hedgerow]

I felt the need for a processor about ten years ago. I don't sell wood just trying to make the job a little easier. Was trying to stay under twenty grand and was looking at someones else projects as I wanted to run 24 to 36 inch dia logs. Looked for about a year and didn't find anything. Finally built one. Used a heavy duty splitter I all ready had and built the hyd saw. We ran it for a few years running mostly locust and ash. It worked well but had a lot of resplits to deal with. Pretty much got all the nice straight running logs I had on my farm done. We are back to cutting hedge {Osage Orange} so the process has just set in the shed the last two years. It tough to get much of a straight log out of a hedge tree. I have about ten grand in mind and a winters worth of work evenings and weekends. I still had a full time job back then. If I were to do it all over again I would skip the hyd saw and just use a chain saw. I have a fair amount of money tied up in the hyd saw to run it. If you buy a processor make sure you have the source for the raw material that is going to work with it.  

[barbender]

A processor does require straighter, better quality wood, no doubt.

[Upstatewoodchuc]

A processor does require straighter, better quality wood, no doubt.

Barbender, that brings up my second problem aside from time, currently my most consistent and cheapest wood source is tree service stuff that 98% of wouldn't go through a processor under 100k.... so not only would I have payments, id have double the cost in logs which also knocks the profit margin down per cord.... im thinking I'd need to be turning 150-200 cords a year to make it worthwhile, and that also means more dump truck and support equipment wear and tear...

[barbender]

The thing is, those big monster processors can run big ugly tree service wood. What they can't do is turn junk wood into nice firewood. That means a ton of debris. I rented a Bell's 6000, it would shove anything through it's 12 way wedge, but what came out of the back was often not marketable firewood. The owner has since bought a tumbler/cleaner to put inline, he said he feels bad realizing how much garbage he had in his wood before. 
  If you are running tree service wood, I would think wou would be better off with a commercial splitter, conveyor, and maybe one if the skid steer splitters for grabbing and busting the big rounds into manageable pieces for further processing. That Bell's 6000 needs a diet of 14" average, 16-20' long wood to realize its potential. If you feed it that, 5 cords an hour is no problem😮

[mike_belben]

If you havent got time to build a processor you probably dont have time to run one either.  If you buy one to "save time" the  youve sold the next what, 5 to 7 years to pay for it.  And if your truck goes down during the loan period.. Then  what? 

[mike_belben]

A poor mans processor should have an 880 or a 395 on a pivot and a plain old metal trough with a winch and pound in cleat to advance the logs.  Theres not a cheaper, faster or more reliable way to run the ugliest wood one can get up the machine.  Design it for comfort of resplits, not some slide the door open, lean sideways and wrestle with pickaroon jive.  Make the machine with comfortable standing as priority #1 so youll actually wanna stand there and smell the fiber.

Invest your money into powering logdeck and outfeed conveyor.. Thats the real efficiency of a processor.  Not cut speed. A 395 will swamp 99% of home made splitter cycle times.  If you dont know dumpvalves and regenerative stroke the cut speed aint your bottle neck yet.

[Upstatewoodchuc]

You guys make fair points. I suppose if I went the homemade route, the quick and dirty way would be the frame and axles from under an old mobile home to provide real estate for a logdeck and all, a multi wedge made out of old wood chipper knives I have, my 3120xp as a powerhead, and the hydraulics/cylinders off a junk international bulldozer i just bought being powered by the pto of a tractor.... you guys are making me second guess how long this would take

[jmur1]

I have a full time job and use my homemade machine for personal and a small "extra" fund supply.  The amount of physical effort was substantially decreased for me from chunking logs and hand splitting to now just pulling levers.  Mine is doing about 20 cord/year of my own and I have even lent it out twice this year in exchange for logs (maybe 20 -30 cord for them). I would say they are well worth the investment.  They save alot of time once functional and running.  They spend huge time to get running!  Make sure you account for bent logs, and build it as heavy as you think it needs to be x 1.5.  Other than that I would not burn wood without one anymore.

jmur1
    

[mike_belben]

 the quick and dirty way would be the frame and axles from under an old mobile home to provide real estate for a logdeck and all, a multi wedge made out of old wood chipper knives I have, my 3120xp as a powerhead, and the hydraulics/cylinders off a junk international bulldozer i just bought being powered by the pto of a tractor.... you guys are making me second guess how long this would take

Buy a motor home with a rotted roof and or no title.. Theyre everywhere. I mean everywhere.  Or an old rotted/rolled plow or dumptruck with PTO or central hydraulics.   Now youve got a self propelled chassis, fuel tanks, excess HP, cooling fan, charging for LED light towers etc.
If its an RV with no PTO port option, Run a central hydraulics plow pump off the serpent pulley, budget $700 there for new.  Buy a sectional control valve and buy it new.. Invest there too, not old junk.  You want a current production expandable valve so adding functions is cake later. Itll happen, keep it tidy and easy without upstream downstream power beyond selector switch divider flow control yada yada spaghetti mess.  Thats how homeowners build out hydraulics. Theres no savings, plunk down on the stack valve.
A dump valve is the fastest speed increase to quicken return stroke.  It will pay for itself by reducing oil temps to where you dont need big coolers and fans and huge tanks.  Id use an old air compressor tank for the hydraulic reservoir with extra ports top and bottom, plugged for expansion.  And i would ABSOLUTELY mount it near the automotive radiator with ducting so that the RV fan cools my hydraulics too.  
Anything that needs to fold up like a conveyor or side deck. Use a chinese quad winch.. $60 with remote control.  You cant buy a hose for $60 so dont force hydraulics where not needed unless you have your own junkyard like me.   Use old stick welder cables from the scrap yard for power wire and keep the battery near the action to save wire. 
If you dont wanna use a cable to advance the log, slave the advance trough to the splitter ram with a quick link so you can use one ram and valve to split the round and advance the log. 55g drums will make a fine log trough over a frame. Itll slide easy if theres no ladder rungs for knobs to cog on.   Id still say cable cleat on a 8k truck winch and winch them forward to the saw. Its 1 minute to pound a cleat or loop a loop, and itll never fail to drag log or else skidders wouldnt skid logs.  Cables just always work. Rube goldberg feed contraptions so often dont. And rube goldberg is the most expensive option.  
For your chainsaw pivot, youve got the power to cut on the push side, UP UNDER the log.  This will blow chips away from you and ALWAYS have a clean straight drop onto the trough, its how mine works.  A small saw cant cut up, it has to cut down but then rounds lean down and somersault flop into the chamber when they finally sever.  And you will swim in chip socks without fail.  You dont need to do anything fancy for the saw mount, just drill a 1/2" hole through a long bar with carbide and double jam nut the saw on a pivot bolt.  This is also how i did mine and its perfect. The powerhead helps feed the bar up into the log. And its nice to sharpen on the machine because the bar points at the sky naturally.  
For fuel and oil tanks dont drill your saw, just drill the caps for hoses..  Put valves inline so you can have gravity fed fuel and oil tanks or else youll have to pull the saw to refill.  Take the saw off when you are done and put your oem caps back in.  The saw can still be your big felling tool, its 2 minutes or less to remove. And its unmodified, just a bar and spare caps had holes drilled.  
Build an outfeed conveyor from regular chain if you need to.  Just an I beam layed down H wise with some minibike rims and knobs welded into the rims for rollers like a dozer track frame.. so that the sprocket rim (at high end) grips a regular 5/16 link style chain.  Weld your angle iron scrap flights right to the links and put some tin for sides.  Old garage door segments make nice sides.  
I would lay the machine out with literally 2 splitters in mind.  One for logs that will feed well and one for rejects that wont.  Crotches and burls.. A standup single knife reject table thats runs off the same hyd system.  Make it so the toss onto the out conveyor is still ergonomical. 

[mike_belben]

Forum ate my spaces!

[moodnacreek]

Forum ate my spaces!

Mike has it all wrong again :laugh:. You put an engine and old sawmill mandrel and 60" saw on a 'car' on tracks, back and forth through the log. that's the easy part. Nobody has really figured out the splitter part so build a copy of the power split international for the ugly wood and any style will work in easy wood. Always remember' bigger is better'

[Spike60]

How solid is your source of logs that can be run through a processor? We're fairly close to each other and down here in Ulster, there too many guys with processors and not enough guys with log trucks to keep them all going. I'm sure we know some of the same people. (Too bad about Terry, wasn't it?)

The whole thing is a little out of balance down here. Lotta these guys adopted the business model of getting a processor and relying on a logger to supply the wood. Maybe 3 of them can supply themselves. And with timber prices being up, the loggers need to be hauling saw logs, not firewood logs. We all know that firewood is a byproduct of logging; not the reason those guys are in the woods.

I know one logger very well and these processor guys are blowing up his phone every day wanting more loads as the demand is rising. He was joking about maybe just keep raising the price until they stop calling. Even his customers are raising the price. He was selling at $800 a load, and one guy upped the price to $1000 in order to ensure that he could get logs.

[Upstatewoodchuc]

Hey spike, long time no talk. I was really sad to hear about Terry, but go figure in typical Terry fashion it happened helping someone else out with their cow. You are correct the logs aren't as plentiful as they were, and I think the reason is atleast two part. There are more processors in the area, however my area is still undeserved, I have a couple friends in the logging business and the way I understand it, the price of pallet and crap logs is so high that its not worth cutting for firewood, and It rained 29 days in July here so most of these guys had to park their stuff because any work in the hilly woods just created more work or stuck machines. This year is gonna see some high prices on wood I think. The tree service wood has been steady, but that stuff is big, ugly, hard to handle, and 15% of it ends up as unsellable waste that I either burn in the shop woodstove or push into an old barn foundation and burn.  :D

[mike_belben]

doug you old stinker!
smiley_old_guy

[moodnacreek]

doug you old stinker!
smiley_old_guy

Un ha, That cane is to hit you when the time comes. Actually my wise guy post is true. When I was upin your old stopin grounds I saw a new processer, and not a cheap one with 2 wings torn off. There are 2 problems; splitter design and building it portable, i.e. compact so no room to do it right. Same thing with portable bandsaw mill. Anymore confusion, just let me know.

[mike_belben]

im hard headed,, youre gonna need a bigger cane!  8)

[moodnacreek]

im hard headed,, youre gonna need a bigger cane!  8)

I should have the wood.