Treating timber posts and rails

Debarker · November 02, 2021, 07:10:39 PM

Apologies in advance, as I am sure this information is buried somewhere within prior posts. I am constructing a small screen house out of small pine logs I cut down from March to May, 2021. (max diameter is 8 inches). I removed the bark pretty quickly after cutting them down and tried to keep them covered but was only partly successful, so they have been exposed to the elements. I have now finished building the screen house before the snow starts falling. Will the logs be sufficiently dry by spring 2022 for me to coat them with some kind of preservative at that time? I have read so much about what to use to treat the wood against water that my head is spinning but would welcome any suggestions - I don't want to concoct some kind of preservative myself but it doesn't need to be something from a big box store. One final question: Should I tarp the whole structure over the winter so that winter rain and snow doesn't get to it? Thanks so much!

doc henderson · November 03, 2021, 02:02:42 AM

I just finished the base for a little library and coated the underground part with copper naphthenate. we will see how it works in about 25 years.

. it has a bit of smell, and makes a bright green color. will this be above/on/or below ground that you are protecting. sounds like above, and I would not want the color to cloud the look of the wood.

K-Guy · November 03, 2021, 08:01:33 AM

Welcome Debarker!!
Fill in your location information. Some answers to your questions may be effected by region weather and conditions. This will get you better answers.

moodnacreek · November 03, 2021, 12:57:16 PM

Those posts should be [i guess they are] debarked and dried under a roof, never tarped except on top. From the bottom bore a 1"+ hole up as far as you can and above grade drill down at a very steep angle so you can pour perservative in. Plug your holes. Paint outside with same. Creosote is what you really need here if you can find some.

tawilson · November 03, 2021, 01:47:06 PM

Quote from: moodnacreek on November 03, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
Those posts should be [i guess they are] debarked and dried under a roof, never tarped except on top. From the bottom bore a 1"+ hole up as far as you can and above grade drill down at a very steep angle so you can pour perservative in. Plug your holes. Paint outside with same. Creosote is what you really need here if you can find some.

The hole from above is what I just did to my posts on my sawmill shed and poured diesel/old oil mix in. I assume the hole from the bottom meets it and is to give a little more capacity?

Debarker · November 03, 2021, 07:46:34 PM

Thank you everyone for your advice. The posts are already up / the structure is built so too late for the drilling that was suggested. The posts do not go into the ground. They are attached to pressure treated framing which itself is on cement, so about a foot off the ground. Location is Massachusetts.

Don P · November 04, 2021, 07:48:27 AM

At this point you can coat them with a WRP, water repellent preservative. At no point in their life should they have a film forming finish like paint or poly, that will not allow them to dry after water gets into the inevitable checks and pinholes in the finish. You want to repel liquid water (beading water is the sign) but be porous enough that water vapor can pass through and allow rapid drying.

Debarker · November 04, 2021, 07:12:29 PM

Quote from: Don P on November 04, 2021, 07:48:27 AM
At this point you can coat them with a WRP, water repellent preservative. At no point in their life should they have a film forming finish like paint or poly, that will not allow them to dry after water gets into the inevitable checks and pinholes in the finish. You want to repel liquid water (beading water is the sign) but be porous enough that water vapor can pass through and allow rapid drying.

Any suggestion on a particular kind of WRP? Thanks.

Don P · November 04, 2021, 08:35:18 PM

I asked an older builder the same question one time and liked the response "They're all the best, just read the can". The ones I used to like are no longer available or have changed formulations so much what I say wouldn't matter. I have a personal dislike of Thompsons but probably haven't bought any in 30 years. The effect desired is that, it beads water but allows vapor out. My issue with that formulation is I could see by the rainbow in the mudpuddle it was also washing away rapidly. Something that sticks would be good. Everyone likes clear. The sun loves it, it can see completely through the finish and break it down at all levels all the time. Pigment shades what is behind it from the UV's, stains last longer than clears. Oil based stains generally have a preservative, a penetrating oil and pigment, the darker the better. That poop brown of forest service buildings was not a mistake, it was originally about maintenance. It was a good recipe but when you take out all the stuff that will kill a lab rat in CA about the only thing left was the rust for pigment and wax for water repellancy. So, I've answered the question with a quest, I'd like to know how whatever you find does.

What the heck, I'm not done yet. I travelled around building kit log homes for awhile. The timbers were often pretty green and we were often in severe drying conditions, harsh sun and wind on large timbers, you could hear it when the sun turned on. Back then I could get a really knock your socks off high VOC product called seasonite. It soaked in, smelled to high heaven for a few days and was clear. It was a clear WRP that moderated surface drying so the outer shell of the timber didn't shrink so fast around the still green core. It beaded water, preserved the color and was compatible with the final finish that I told clients to put on a year later when the moisture content was lower, the wood shrunk and more stable. Anyway, that concept worked. When it was no longer available I just told them to put on the first stain coat, expect it to have a reduced life on green wood but it would help moderate drying while repelling water.

moodnacreek · November 04, 2021, 09:10:42 PM

For off the ground F&P is what I use.

Debarker · November 05, 2021, 07:13:51 AM

Quote from: Don P on November 04, 2021, 08:35:18 PMThe effect desired is that, it beads water but allows vapor out.

So, basically, just make sure nothing with poly?

Debarker · November 05, 2021, 07:15:58 AM

Quote from: moodnacreek on November 04, 2021, 09:10:42 PM
For off the ground F&P is what I use.

We use Waterlox on our floors and have been quite happy with it. I see they make an exterior product - ever use that? Also, I have a whole bunch of leftover Anchor Seal 2. Am wondering if that could be used in some fashion, although I am concerned that might lock water in.

Don P · November 05, 2021, 08:13:10 AM

I like Waterlox for interior, it is a film forming finish, the exterior version even more so. Vapor permeability is a sliding scale across finishes. Poly is probably about the most vapor impermeable, paints, waterlox and thinned varnishes, heavy bodied stains, translucent stains, thin spirited coatings. The other thing, look down that list and think about how they fail, I hate scraping which is how the heavier films fail. If you keep applying a stain it will become a film, any I guess, you don't want to do what a cabinet maker does and "build" a deep uniform finish. Well not unless the wood is completely dry and the film is entirely intact. Those painted log cabins that are not rotten had really good paint maintenance, if you have the time. Anchor seal would probably interfere with future finishes, do check compatibility with whatever you'll be doing later.

Nebraska · November 05, 2021, 10:50:37 AM

How about Viking paint.... pine tar, linseed oil, and turpentine mixed in equal amounts.. Not the greatest color straight but can be altered with pigments.

Don P · November 05, 2021, 03:58:47 PM

You can find Stockholm Tar online, its one of those bucket list things I'd like to try to make sometime. I haven't found a use for raw linseed oil in woodworking, always use boiled if using it in a finish. Heritage I guess would be the closest off the shelf modern version.

Debarker · November 06, 2021, 05:54:24 AM

Quote from: Don P on November 04, 2021, 07:48:27 AMYou want to repel liquid water (beading water is the sign) but be porous enough that water vapor can pass through and allow rapid drying

Heritage might be just the thing. Their website boasts: A well applied exterior finish will bead water, yet still allow the wood to breathe and dry out when needed. Thanks for the suggestion!

Greenie · November 10, 2021, 09:38:06 AM

Around here posts buried in the ground rot within 6" of the grade. Deeper down the post is fully intact, up above grade the post is mostly solid. I've tried many techniques with little success. Wood preservatives currently available are pretty lame.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · November 13, 2021, 08:33:34 AM

Even commercially, pressure treated lumber (properly treated) has a risk of decay. For that reason, we increase the amount of preservative when in contact with the ground or water.

There is no home treatment that can duplicate the amount of chemical and the depth into the product that is obtained by pressure treating.

The basic question with home treatment is "Hoe expensive would it be and how serious would it be, if the item began to decay in twenty years?" For a house, the cost would be exorbitant. In many states, a subsequent buyer can sue the original owner for damages. A bank may refuse a loan to a subsequent owner if the treatment is not well done, which usually means pressure treatment.

Bottom line...for a home, building holding expensive cars, animal barn, fence housing expensive animals, etc., it is important to have the best treatment possibilities ible to avoid failure as best that we can. This means proper pressure treatment.