Most marketable red oak dimensions

francismilker · January 29, 2013, 10:33:43 AM

I cut down a tree in the bottom the other day that must be the straightest, clearest red oak I've ever seen. It's 25" at the butt with little to no taper for the first 27'. I want to mill it but before I do I'm wondering if any of you can suggest the best dimension lumber to cut out of it to have sitting in the loft air drying. I don't have a buyer but have time to wait. Would slabbing it up into 1" be the best or should I consider 1x4's, 1x6's, etc? I'm not expecting to get rich off the deal but surely someone would want it for trim type lumber imho.

This is one straight tree that doesn't appear to have a knot in it to the first crotch at 27'.

Fil-Dill · January 29, 2013, 10:40:16 AM

Red Oak is the only lumber that I have to buy for furniture. (non on the farm) Almost everything I have bought to date has been planed to 13/16". I like to finish it to 3/4 when it is done being thrown around in a truck.

Red Clay Hound · January 29, 2013, 10:47:09 AM

I would cut it into 4/4 and 8/4 and make the boards as wide as possible. Most of my buyers like wide boards. Wide hardwood boards are not readily available and they usually bring a premium price.

hackberry jake · January 29, 2013, 10:52:33 AM

I would cut it all 5/4... Of course I have a buyer for 5/4 red oak so that probably doesn't count. If I don't know what to cut something into I always stick with 4/4. Thin enough to make trim and flooring and you can still use it for furniture as well.

AdamT · January 29, 2013, 11:01:00 AM

4/4 and wide

bandmiller2 · January 29, 2013, 11:13:29 AM

I've found it tough to precut oak as a stock item what ever you have they want something else.The bulk of my oak business is for trailer deck which I usally cut 2" less the band kerf.Probibly if you cut some 1" and outher 2" you'd be likely to please the bulk of customers.Good luck. Frank C.

Tree Feller · January 29, 2013, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Red Clay Hound on January 29, 2013, 10:47:09 AM
I would cut it into 4/4 and 8/4 and make the boards as wide as possible. Most of my buyers like wide boards. Wide hardwood boards are not readily available and they usually bring a premium price.

Ditto. As a woodworker, I find 4/4 is the most-used dimension. It will usually surface to 7/8" or 13/16". On a 25" log, consider quarter-sawing it. QSRO is stable and almost as attractive as QSWO (the ray flecks usually aren't quite as large and prominent). It is also more expensive to buy. If you saw through and through, take the 8/4 stock from the center to get the 8/4 QS stuff alongside the pith.

I love wide boards but they are not all that practical for the woodworking that I do. I don't think I have ever dried or bought a board over 6" wide that was perfectly flat...a prerequisite for milling foursquare stock. Since I face joint the boards and my jointer has an 8" wide bed, the wide stock makes it more difficult to get a flat face. There are ways around that but usually I find it more convenient to rip the boards down for jointing and planing.

But, I do understand the attraction that woodworkers have for wide boards, practical or not. ;D

Note: You might want to let that Oak air dry a bit prior to placing it in the loft to prevent too-rapid drying.

scsmith42 · January 29, 2013, 11:38:54 AM

Francis, your highest return for the lumber would be to quartersaw it in widths as wide as possible, minimizing the presence of any pith and sap wood.

QS lumber shrinks more during the drying process, so for 4/4 dry boards mill at 1-1/4" green.

Wider widths (10" plus) I would mill at 6/4 so that they dry to 1-5/16".

Due to the time it takes to air dry thick oak, I would probably not advise you to mill much 9/4 (maybe a few boards).

beenthere · January 29, 2013, 12:22:48 PM

My advice would be to cut it into one thickness and one length, and make stickering for air drying as simple as it can be. Then sticker it every 12" (minimum of 18") with dry stickers and be ready for whatever comes along, be it a buyer or your own projects.

francismilker · January 29, 2013, 02:56:55 PM

Thanks guys. It's gonna be a few days before I can load them on the mill due to the tractor being down but I'm for sure gonna try my luck at quarter-sawing. Sure seems like a lot of rolling and turning but will be worth it when it's over. So...........to get this straight; I split it in two, then split into forths, and then rock 90 degrees back and forth between each cut while cutting each quarter?

Assumedly, I'll get a little narrower board with each cut correct?????

I'm a novice here. Never done anything but slice em' up.

rooster 58 · January 29, 2013, 04:13:32 PM

Woodmizer offers a QS tutorial DVD that is very informative ;)

AdamT · January 29, 2013, 05:38:32 PM

These should help. I bookmarked them to my phone for easy acces when sawing live:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=58012.0;attach=4333

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=58012.0;attach=4334

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=58012.0;attach=4335

They are really helpful and if you have a smartphone, I recommend bookmarking them.

Larry · January 29, 2013, 06:44:44 PM

Just my thoughts. I can always get wide boards from short logs. I've never seen much demand for quarter sawn red oak. I think it might take a special buyer. The ray fleck just isn't all that pronounced. I would surly give the rays a good look before committing to quarter sawing.

In any case I would never quarter saw that nice of log if it was my first time.

I have seen demand for long clear pieces used for molding. 16' and longer. I can never get that from a short log. And if somebody wants a short boards it's pretty easy to cut them down.

GAB · January 29, 2013, 08:38:28 PM

Francis:
I have q'sawn some maple and red oak for a cabinet maker and q'sawn some cherry for a furniture maker. The way the cabinet maker wanted it done was to adjust the log on the bed of the mill such that the center of the log was parallel to the bed. Then sawing into the small end 1/3 the way down for the first piece. Then rotate a half turn and take another piece the same way. Then take the center piece and again adjust it on the bed of the mill such that the center of the piece was parallel to the bed (with bark on the top and bottom). Then slice that down the pith. Then the 2 center portion pieces are sawn perpendicular to the cut down the pith and the first two pieces are sawn perpendicular to the cuts that made them. The yield on quarter sawing is less but the patterns are worth it. The furniture maker wanted the center piece sawed into boards. The suggestion of taking thick stock for table legs in the center of the log is a good one. Consider removing the pith as it usually does not behave nicely.
Good luck and let us know about your results with the logs,
Gerald

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · January 29, 2013, 09:15:54 PM

You have a wonderful red oak. If you would likely make the most money, then sell the log or logs as veneer logs. If you decide to saw them, you will get the most money from upper grade 8/4...if you saw low grade 8/4, few people want that, so you need to read the log character well. Also, with 8/4, your yield will increase compared to thinner stock. Such 8/4 lumber should be flatsawn, as the 8/4 quartersawn market is small. You also need to dry this wood ASAP or sell it promptly to someone who will dry it.

If you cannot dry it yourself and if you need money soon, then 4/4 flatsawn will move the fastest. You need to move it quickly to avoid stain, mold and mildew, as well as end checks. A lot of the people that want quartersawn 4/4 red oak will already have their sources of supply, so it will be hard for you to find them. Also, most of these people will be ordering throughout the year, so they would not be interested in your lumber as a one-time deal. So, although there are a lot of markets for oak of all types, 4/4 flatsawn is the most active market for a one-shot deal.

If you knew who your customers would be and what they wanted, then you have the best situation. It does you no good to saw 5/4 if there is no person in your area that wants 5/4; etc. If you are thinking about local woodworkers, 4/4 shouod be your main item, but a few pieces of 8/4 for legs, etc. might be useful. However, if a person is working ona project and you only have some of the wood they need, they woudl likely go to someone that has all the wood they need in one stop.

red oaks lumber · January 29, 2013, 09:34:52 PM

i'm with doc, sell them for veneer. if you feel the need to saw them keep in mind wide boards cup, some times they cup alot!
you made reference to cutting the tree in the bottom. what did you mean by that? was the tree in a valley or gully? if so you might have a tree filled with stress from growing on a slight sidehill. don't know just sayin

Tree Feller · January 29, 2013, 09:56:06 PM

A "bottom", at least where I come from, is an area, usually near a creek or river, that is lower than the surrounding areas. It is usually flat and very fertile as the soil generally has more moisture than the higher areas.

WDH · January 29, 2013, 10:02:27 PM

I suspect that your market will be local woodworkers. If that is the case, I would saw 4/4 at 80% and 8/4 at 20%. I would saw as wide as possible as has been stated. Cut the 8/4 from the very best grade in the log. Knotty and cracked and checked 8/4 will end up as firewood. Cut the 8/4 so that you can get full layers on your sticker stack, and stack the 8/4 on the bottom. Then stack the wide and the clears next. End up stacking the lowest grade on the top to provide weight for the good stuff.

Cody,

I was a woodworker before I was a sawyer. When I first started sawing hardwood, I targeted for widths that would fit my 6" jointer (5 1/2" boards then, but now I have an 8" jointer). That sure seemed logical. When I started selling hardwood, I found that the woodworkers that came to buy wanted the wider boards 2:1. In red oak, I now go for wide, clear. Best grade at the maximum width. I guess the woodworkers rip the wide boards into two pieces to face joint before planing

.

learner · January 29, 2013, 10:18:52 PM

Quote from: rooster 58 on January 29, 2013, 04:13:32 PM
Woodmizer offers a QS tutorial DVD that is very informative ;)

You have a part number on that because I can't find it.

hackberry jake · January 29, 2013, 10:38:04 PM

If the wood dries pretty straight you don't have to joint it. I have built a lot of stuff with 12" wide boards and I only have a 6" jointer. It came out just fine. I can see where jointing everything would ensure quality and straightness though.

WDH · January 29, 2013, 10:46:13 PM

Yeah, I probably over-do it, but I want all the stock to be dead flat. Sometimes when the board is nice and flat, I do what you are saying, too.

Solomon · February 01, 2013, 10:52:53 AM

I sawed 500 bf of Red Oak about four years ago. I quarter sawed all I possably could. (Time Cosuming). I got absolutely gorgous boards with very pronounced flecks. It all stayed very flat and very straight. I milled it 5/4, air dried it two years in a makeshift galvinized tin shed with lots of air flow. Sealed the ends of the logs with latex Kilz befor sawing. Had almost no checking. I also used very dry white pine stickers. When it got to 8% moisture it had shrunk 1/8 inch in width and less than 1/16 in thickness. Like a fool I sold it way to cheap to a Church that was triming out their Sanctuary.
They had their own Woodmaster Moulder Planer. I visited them one sunday, when I saw the work they had done, I didn't feel like a fool any more. They have some very skilled and talented guys among their membership!

francismilker · February 01, 2013, 12:00:10 PM

Quote from: Solomon on February 01, 2013, 10:52:53 AM
I sawed 500 bf of Red Oak about four years ago. I quarter sawed all I possably could. (Time Cosuming). I got absolutely gorgous boards with very pronounced flecks. It all stayed very flat and very straight. I milled it 5/4, air dried it two years in a makeshift galvinized tin shed with lots of air flow. Sealed the ends of the logs with latex Kilz befor sawing. Had almost no checking. I also used very dry white pine stickers. When it got to 8% moisture it had shrunk 1/8 inch in width and less than 1/16 in thickness. Like a fool I sold it way to cheap to a Church that was triming out their Sanctuary.
They had their own Woodmaster Moulder Planer. I visited them one sunday, when I saw the work they had done, I didn't feel like a fool any more. They have some very skilled and talented guys among their membership!

That was a great thing you did!! You will be blessed for it.

Solomon · February 01, 2013, 12:44:48 PM

I hope someone up there writes that one down for me Francis.
I let'em have it for a buck a bf.
I a soft touch for God fearing folks. But like I said they did some truly amazing work with it.. I was astonished and very pleased when I saw the work they did with it.
Knowing those folks as I do now, I would saw for them at my cost if it was bieng used for their Church building.