Long and wide build started

thinwater · November 16, 2018, 09:32:32 PM

I picked up a load of metal today to build the frame and carriage for my own sawmill!

I am getting a nice pair of 60" wide (Frame width) 3500LB torsion axles from a buddy so I decided to go wide and long with the mill. I tacked up the frame tonight but it got dark before I could put on all of the frame parts so I will have to start again in the AM. The 3x4" tube was 24' long so I decided to use all of it.

I will be making it about the same as all of the others, just a little bigger. I have a CNC plasma cutter, hydraulic tube bender, CNC mill, lathe, MIG, TIG and stick welders to use to complete the build.

If anyone sees me doing something stupid as I go along please point it out and I will fix it before I get to deep. Thank you all for all of the great info on this forum!

Hilltop366 · November 16, 2018, 10:17:13 PM

thecfarm · November 17, 2018, 06:13:35 AM

Good luck with your build and have fun!!!

Skipper11A · November 17, 2018, 11:07:23 AM

Make sure you plan so that your carriage is less than the legal width of 102", including the blade guards and whatever latches you use to keep the blade guards closed. You also need to decide what size blade and band wheels you are going to use for that extreme width. I would look at the Thomas 4420 mill with 2" blades and 20" band wheels. Most manufacturers are also now making wide slabbing mills but I notice that none of them are portable (is this because of the width?). You probably want to make sure you use a standard length blade so that you don't have to pay for custom cut blades. A 24' long frame is just about right, your carriage will take up 3-4 feet of that leaving you 20-21' for logs.

Okay, after a little more thought, I would say that you should either build a portable mill or a wide slab mill, but not both. When you get the big logs, they are always going to be 6-8 feet long because anything longer is too heavy to move. Also, a wide bed is a PITA to work with because you can't reach everything from one side, they are easier to use when they are on the ground because you can step inside the frame to adjust dogs, etc. My mill is 40" wide and it is a lot easier to use on the ground than when it has the axle under it. Just my 2 cents.

nativewolf · November 17, 2018, 03:23:01 PM

Sawmill Plans are Available - YouTube

This is Matt's build and considering he has a fraction of your metalworking kit you should be able to make a great mill. Matt had many request for his plans and was kind enough to put it together for folks.

thinwater · November 17, 2018, 09:02:01 PM

Quote from: Skipper11A on November 17, 2018, 11:07:23 AM
Make sure you plan so that your carriage is less than the legal width of 102", including the blade guards and whatever latches you use to keep the blade guards closed. You also need to decide what size blade and band wheels you are going to use for that extreme width. I would look at the Thomas 4420 mill with 2" blades and 20" band wheels. Most manufacturers are also now making wide slabbing mills but I notice that none of them are portable (is this because of the width?). You probably want to make sure you use a standard length blade so that you don't have to pay for custom cut blades. A 24' long frame is just about right, your carriage will take up 3-4 feet of that leaving you 20-21' for logs.

Okay, after a little more thought, I would say that you should either build a portable mill or a wide slab mill, but not both. When you get the big logs, they are always going to be 6-8 feet long because anything longer is too heavy to move. Also, a wide bed is a PITA to work with because you can't reach everything from one side, they are easier to use when they are on the ground because you can step inside the frame to adjust dogs, etc. My mill is 40" wide and it is a lot easier to use on the ground than when it has the axle under it. Just my 2 cents.

I think you are 100% correct on trying to get all 3-long, wide and mobile is not a good idea. I already welded up the frame this AM so I will have to concentrate the build on long, mobile and a little wider than "Normal" but not as big as I was thinking. I will have to deal with working from one side since I dont want to cut it up and start over.

thinwater · November 17, 2018, 09:56:32 PM

I ordered some 4" cast iron V groove wheels and they should be here tomorrow. I made some myself bt they were only 3" so I bought bigger ones. This is close to what I am going to make to mount them. Basically a big box, 3/16" steel plate cut on the CNC plasma cutter. I will finish the drawing tonight and cut and weld them up tomorrow once I make sure the wheels will fit. I did not find a drawing or model for the wheels so I have to wait until I have the real thing to make sure. I drew up a couple to make this assembly based on the online ad on Amazon where I bough them.

The box should give good weather protection and the wheel holes are 24" on center.

thinwater · November 17, 2018, 10:41:03 PM

I drew up a couple of 19" wheels and 158" blade, then set it over my 60" wide frame to see how wide I can cut with a standard 158" blade. The picture is a 34" cant being cut 10/4 but I probably wont get over 31-32" with the blade guides in the way. I guess a tre 30" cut will be good enough for a tow behind rig.

Ljohnsaw · November 17, 2018, 11:22:47 PM

I used "standard" 184" bands on 22" wheels (tires) and my head is 8' wide IIRC. Sooo, I'm not portable but I do have the ability to cut 30"+.

But, don't let the width deter you. The "simple" solution would be to have a way to rotate the head 90° (in-line with bed). Some sort of rotary table lift that fits on the track to rotate the head?

JRWoodchuck · November 18, 2018, 01:05:36 AM

My mill is built with 19" band wheels 158" blades and I am right at 31.5" between the guides. I wouldn't be afraid to go wider. I've been debating re building my main shaft so I can go wider. My mill rails are 48" wide.

Satamax · November 18, 2018, 03:51:02 AM

Thinwater

If you want to go wider and still tow. There is a solution.

There is a guy in france, with the same machine as mine, a CD4 from LBL Brenta. Which is 12/13ft wide. Who went mobile. Rails and posts, are at the axis of the wheels pretty much. Rails are spaced 160cm appart ( 63 inches)

What he does, is, he has a sort of lazy suzan bearing under the saw head, at the end of the tracks, and turn the saw parallel to the bed when towing.

Well, actually i re checked, it's a CD5 that he has.

A video of his rig doing shingles. But not the mobile one.

Fabrication de Bardeaux (Etienne Lescure) - Vidéo dailymotion

thinwater · November 18, 2018, 09:50:58 AM

I can go a lot wider than I drew with the 158" blade and keep it legal so that is what I will do. I just came up with a better way to make the slide brackets that hold the wheels, they will have bilt in gusstes and side plates to spport the gantry better. I am at the shop now smoking two turkeys for an early Thanksgiving dinner so I have a few hours to kill and some steel to burn!

I know I am getting ahead of myself, but does anyone know the best type of trees in Central FL to be on the look out for. I run a lot of stuff to a private dump with my dump trailer rental business and they have a HUGE pile of large long logs that they dont want there. They have no way to get rid of them and they fill the space up fast. They charge extra to dump logs over 12" around. Many are big pine mixed in with all kinds of others.

Skipper11A · November 18, 2018, 11:06:53 AM

Quote from: thinwater on November 17, 2018, 10:41:03 PMI drew up a couple of 19" wheels and 158" blade, then set it over my 60" wide frame to see how wide I can cut with a standard 158" blade. The picture is a 34" cant being cut 10/4 but I probably wont get over 31-32" with the blade guides in the way. I guess a tre 30" cut will be good enough

I suggest you look at the blade setup for the LT15Wide. 19" band wheels, 176" blade, 35.5" width of cut. Blades are about $25 each and come in multiple profiles from many manufacturers. My EZ Boardwalk 40 uses 174" blades and 19" band wheels and the carriage width is 84" (7') so the LT15Wide carriage should be similar in size.

One more thought: You need to decide which side of the mill you are going to clamp logs to (or in the middle?) and build the carriage to that side of the frame. I would suggest clamping to the sawdust side like the vast majority of mills do.

Skipper11A · November 18, 2018, 12:38:31 PM

Here's two of the best features of the EZ Boardwalk that make it stand out from other manual mills. The log turning winch and those angle iron ladders welded to the side of each bunk allow you to turn and move even the biggest log that you can put on this mill.

The log turning winch lays down to the side when not in use and is easy to remove completely by pulling one pin.

The angle iron ladders provide purchase for your cant hook (peaveys work better here) and allow you to move logs where you need them. These are two of the exceptional features of the EZ Boardwalk 40 and I highly recommend both of them.

Caution: The EZ Boardwalk clamps logs on the "wrong side" of the mill so if you are going to clamp logs on the sawdust side you'll have to reverse everything you see here.

thinwater · November 18, 2018, 01:17:30 PM

Thank you all so much for all of the good ideas! Keep them coming!

I made up a little jig to line up the angle iron rails. They work great!

If anyone wants any of the dxf files of anything I am doing or need it modified for yor own build just say so. I will post it here if I can or email it to you.

thinwater · November 18, 2018, 01:27:05 PM

I made the frames for the slides today out of 3/16 plate. They are much more solid and bigger in real life than I thoght they wold be, this is a good thing.

The gantry will be 2" x 3" tube and lines up with the gussets and support tabs I included in the sides of the slides. I want to weld it today but the wheels are not here yet and I want to make sure it will fit.

thinwater · November 18, 2018, 01:40:59 PM

This is all of the parts in the trolly/slide assembly whith 4" wheels added.

Ljohnsaw · November 18, 2018, 05:11:12 PM

Wow, you sure have a lot of nice ~~toys~~ tools! How are you going to attach the angle to the square tube? Weld? Wondering how you are going to prevent warping. What's the wall thickness on the 3x4 tube?

Satamax · November 19, 2018, 07:35:56 AM

Duh, can i have the plasma cutter? ;D

I'd love one. No room for it realy, but i would love one. I have a 55amp, 400V 3 phase one, an old transformer beast, but i don't have the CN part!

thinwater · November 19, 2018, 10:28:15 AM

Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 18, 2018, 05:11:12 PM
Wow, you sure have a lot of nice ~~toys~~ tools! How are you going to attach the angle to the square tube? Weld? Wondering how you are going to prevent warping. What's the wall thickness on the 3x4 tube?

I am going to weld the angle to the tube, it is 3/16" thick and I will tack it on each side every foot or so all the way down so it cant move then stitch weld, 1" on one side, the next 1" on the other side and so on all of the way down, leaving 1" between each weld.
I am making this up as I go along, I drew some assemblies for this but not all of it. I will have full drawings when I am done then can make changes to the drawing as I find the many issues in the build. I am a machinest, not a fab guy so there will be many mistakes, the biggest being not working from a proven print. A good fab guy can make something like this in two good days. It will likely take me five days worth of time to do 1/2 as good of a job.

Skipper11A · November 19, 2018, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: thinwater on November 19, 2018, 10:28:15 AM
I am going to weld the angle to the tube, it is 3/16" thick and I will tack it on each side every foot or so all the way down so it cant move then stitch weld, 1" on one side, the next 1" on the other side and so on all of the way down, leaving 1" between each weld.

I think you should leave 1' between the welds. 1" is way to close together. That angle iron is never going to be subjected to much stress. Just tack it and don't overheat it when you weld and you'll be fine.

Crusarius · November 19, 2018, 01:03:24 PM

I agree about the width. my bed is 50.75 wide and reaching anything on the far side is a real stretch. I ended up getting a blue hookaroon just so I could reach. In hindsight I keep thinking about moving my operator side to the sawdust side of the mill. that will cut alot of stretching over the bed out.

I also agree about the 12" between the welds. stagger them 6" each side. you will not put enough heat into the frame that it will even think about moving.

How wide is the bed?

thinwater · November 19, 2018, 08:39:25 PM

The bed is 60" wide. Thanks for the tips on welding the angle, I will do it as you suggest.

I welded up the trolly today and cut the tube for the rest of the gantry. My 4" V groove wheels arrived yesterday.

These are the two sides of the gantry, the uprights are not welded, they are just stuck in place.

thinwater · November 19, 2018, 08:40:58 PM

These are the parts held in place to get a feel for the overall size. The uprights are 60" tall. It should be tall enough to clear a 38"+ log with the 19" wheels.

nativewolf · November 20, 2018, 06:53:05 AM

Ok I am going to chime in. In my experience, which is not huge but varied. If you are going to make a WIDE mill than you have to be able to do High. Seems high but I don't think that 38 is high enough. Can others chime in? Especially you slabbers? If you had a mill that could cut as wide as Thinwater is making his would 38" depth of cut be enough? I'd have thought you would want 60" or even 70" to handle the strange stuff.