I bought a Stihl FS 130 Trimmer/Brush Cutter a while back and thought I'd post a quick review in case anybody was considering one. Bottom line is that I'm very pleased with the this unit. I've been using the chisel tooth blade and it cuts 2" plus brush easily. This model is powered by the newer 4 stroke, I'm very impressed with the torque. Starts easy and I get decent run time on a tank of fuel. I store it in a heated shed so I can't say how easy it starts if it gets cold soaked. I've got about 60 hrs on it so far. This is the bicycle handle model and the controls are well thought out. Plenty of adjustments so it will fit about anybody. An added side benefit that I discovered by accident is that it works wonders for de-limbing downed medium sized cedar trees. We use the cedars for a variety of projects, works like a champ.
About the only downside is the harness that comes with it. It takes a while to adjust it properly. I'm going to order a separate one for my wife as she uses it too. Too much hassle re-adjusting it for different people. The FS130 was a bit pricey, but it works great.
I was going to buy a larger model but my dealer said this would do everything I wanted. First time he ever talked me into spending less money!
Get a Jonsered or Husky harness. Those Stihl brush cutter harnesses will rub the hide off ya if you use them enough. Feels like your in the ring with a wrestler with a full Neilson hold on ya. My crew uses the pro model FS550
I've not found the Stihl harness to be a problem at all. Works great on my FS120, as does the FS120 (like the energizer bunny.........)
Well obviously you haven't used it (harness) enough. ;D :D :D Even the dealers here are not impressed by them. The saw itself is great, it's not part of the argument. ;)
I use an FS250 and really like it. I don't mind wearing the harness, but rarely use it more than 1-2 days in a row. It is not easy to adjust, and gets twisted easily. I can see room for improvement. Plenty heavy duty though.
Erik
My new one (harness) I bought in 2007 is falling apart after 10 hectare of thinning. I had it into the dealer once for re riveting and the pad that used to be leather on the previous years is now plastic and just about warn to nothing, the foam stuffing is peeking out everywhere. ;) My guys just get Jonersed and Husky harnesses when they replace the Stihl one. I'm getting a Jonsered harness this spring.
Quote from: ErikC on February 05, 2008, 08:55:06 PM
I use an FS250 and really like it. I don't mind wearing the harness, but rarely use it more than 1-2 days in a row. It is not easy to adjust, and gets twisted easily. I can see room for improvement. Plenty heavy duty though.
Erik
How many were 8 hour days? ;)
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 05, 2008, 09:22:07 PM
...................... My guys just get Jonersed and Husky harnesses when they replace the Stihl one. I'm getting a Jonsered harness this spring.
.............
SD
In the spirit of the Forum, just tell us how good the Jonersed and Husky ones are....... ::) ::) ;) ;)
I used my FS130 today to clear an acre and a half of 5' tall grass and brush. I got mine last year and it has worked flawlessly - lots of power and fairly light weight. The vibration on the unit is also very low.
I haven't had any issues with the harness though.
Quote from: bmill on February 05, 2008, 07:33:16 AM
I'm going to order a separate one for my wife as she uses it too.
Bmill,
You might find the Stihl "Comfort" harness more comfortable, especially for the wife.
Part No. 4134 710 9001.
The FS130 is torque y being a four stroke.In the Stihl brushcutter range, irrespective of two strokes and four strokes, I would place it between the FS 120 and FS 200.
But, the engine looks very much like that of a Subaru Robin four stroke brushcutter.
Whether this is a coincidence or not I dont know.
Joe
Quote from: beenthere on February 05, 2008, 11:45:34 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 05, 2008, 09:22:07 PM
...................... My guys just get Jonersed and Husky harnesses when they replace the Stihl one. I'm getting a Jonsered harness this spring.
.............
SD
In the spirit of the Forum, just tell us how good the Jonersed and Husky ones are....... ::) ::) ;) ;)
It has a much more rugged thigh pad were the harness clips to the saw. But, the Stihl harness has one major design thaw that may not be as much for the casual usual with a lighter weight saw. It's the tendency to pull the weight of the saw to one side, so it's not putting weight at your centre. It will give you back troubles that can be equated to the student coming and going to school with the weight of all those heavy books being carried to one side of his hip. The Jonsered and Husky put the weight on both shoulders and centres it. Also I find the nylon strap that joins to the thigh pad tears away on the Stihl.
cheers
How many were 8 hour days ;)
Actually they were full 8 hour days. I'm not fond of running those machines, and prefer to get it over with. Harness or not they're hard work.
Erik
:D :D :D :D
Nothing easy about thinning, that is for sure. But, we enjoy it none-the-less. ;)
If you are going to buy a bigger model I would suggest you get the Stihl FS 450 Clearing saw I own one and it is fantastic but at the same time a bit pricey again its got alot of adjustments and you can buy it in the plain 2stroke or the new 4 mix 4 stroke engine the only problem I've had with it was the spark plug but by all means if you can afford it buy one they will go forever if looked after
Just a few words:
Any professional thinning saw lasts up to 2 years when thinning professionally, most are hurting after 100 ac of cutting. A lot of fellows buy new every season and keep last years saw for parts. Don't pay more than $350 for a used professional saw, you don't know how well it was looked after. I've seen guys over the years get stung for $500-600 and the saw calves within a couple weeks. You only get 90 day warrantee on Pro saws brand new, not even a season of cutting. Well Echo has or had 1 year on theirs. They are louder machines than Husky and Stihl.
Quote from: joe_indi on February 06, 2008, 05:37:06 AM
Quote from: bmill on February 05, 2008, 07:33:16 AM
I'm going to order a separate one for my wife as she uses it too.
Bmill,
You might find the Stihl "Comfort" harness more comfortable, especially for the wife.
Part No. 4134 710 9001.
Joe
The one complaint I have had is it is uncomfortable on hot days.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 14, 2008, 09:44:57 PM
Just a few words:
Any professional thinning saw lasts up to 2 years when thinning professionally, most are hurting after 100 ha of cutting. A lot of fellows buy new every season and keep last years saw for parts. Don't pay more than $350 for a used professional saw, you don't know how well it was looked after. I've seen guys over the years get stung for $500-600 and the saw calves within a couple weeks. You only get 90 day warrantee on Pro saws brand new, not even a season of cutting. Well Echo has or had 1 year on theirs. They are louder machines than Husky and Stihl.
Swampy - that is interesting. We use Stihl saws pretty much everyday. And yes, they are 8 hour days - 5 days a week. Ours last considerably longer than 2 years it seems though and still work like new. One reason is probably that they don't cut a lot of brush, but grass. Secondly, every Saturday, without fail, they are taken apart, cleaned up like new and put back together. It makes a big difference. The workers are glad to take a couple of hours on Saturday and do it too - better than being back in the field I am sure.
Yup, cutting grass is a lot different than cutting trees and heavy brush. :D :D
We clean our saw filters daily and sharpen on every tank, when taken apart they look like new when running Amzoil mix. The head/angle gear isn't suppose to be touched for a year with new grease. They changed the plug on the new saws so you have to find a special screw driver, there is no longer a square nut there. Too much grease and you ruin the seal.
Excellent discussion, very helpful, thank you.
-Pieter
This season has come to an end for 2009. I was using my two old FS550 saws, each have been used 3 seasons now. My newest one I used most all season, but I took out the drive shaft, two older angle gears, two handle bars and an inch off the corner of the brush guard. I also have to look at the power unit this winter as it was making a rattling noise, so I slapped on my old power unit this October to finish out the season and replaced the air and fuel filters. Worked like a new saw actually. ;D I tease the other fellas with other brands when I break a part, "too much horse power boys". :D What's hard on gears and drive shaft is big wood, beyond the size the saw was designed for. You can't treat a saw like a sythe and swing into a big stem without it eventually taking the drive out. :D Keep'm sharp, although near impossible in constant rocks. ::) Can't flat file the blades much more than twice, too much hook from the round file will introduce too much resistance. You'd be surprised the difference between a tiny notch in the tooth verses a shape like a cat's claw. That little notch will cut brush way faster. ;) A lot of bigger wood we got into had denser groupings of growth rings, making it harder to cut. Hardwood clumps are always hard on the guard, they will crack the corner by summer's end if your working the saw hard, rest assured.
Swamp donkey -
Are you using the blades that look like a circular saw, or the ones that have chain saw chain wrapped around them? What do you see as the advantages of either? All I've used so far are the circular saw style.
9" circular, cheap and low maintenance. I've never yet seen one of those chainsaw blades in the shops here in Canada, nor on anyone's saw. I don't see it on the Canadian site either. They must be for lighter models, but maybe not. An acre to an acre and a half a day in good cutting is all you'll be able to handle anyway, day in day out. Thicker stuff on difficult ground and 3/4 acre is as fast as you can mow'm down, constant swing'n. Some of that spruce ground is like pitching hay, it wants to dance on the spinning saw blade, similar with fir. It's like cutting tumble weeds with the green branches clear to the ground.
By chainsaw blade, I presume you mean the circular saw blade (csb) - chisel tooth compared to csb - scratcher tooth (as described in the catalog)?
No, I've seen the one with the chainsaw chain mounted on it. Just seems like it would stretch as chains do, and come flying off near the end of use. I wouldn't want that thing to come whipping off a FS550. I bet the blade guard gets a bit of a thrashing when it starts to wear. I just checked Stihl USA and I see they have taken it off their accessory line. I think some in the forum have tried it, or have seen it in the US. We all use chisel tooth blades here and there are umpteen brands, all made in Sweden. Our FS550 Stihl saws are from Germany, stamped on the crank case.
I have the blade with the chain on it, and like it a lot. Much better cutting than the solid toothed blade, or the one with the pointed teeth. Problem was moving up to a larger Stihl brush cutter, and the blade diameter was too large and wouldn't fit. I plan to get one that will fit.
Never had any problem with the chain stretching, and wore one down pretty good. The chain would have to "stretch" a whole lot to become loose enough to come off.
This is the Beaver blade, and Manufacturers Supply is where they can be purchased.
http://www.mfgsupply.com/TrimmerBladesBeaver.html/mv_session_id=8gCjJXB8
As beenthere said, the larger brush saws have a smaller cutout hole in the centre to mount the blade to the drive. Gotta watch which blade you leave the shop with, if you want it to fit. ;D
I'll show ya some day how to sharpen a chisel tooth. :D ;)
yeah, i want to see how to sharpen one too...
i've have all of stihl's blades.....i started with the square 4 edge blade about 20 years ago......it was ok....
then i went to the three blade star......it was ok too...
then i went to the "scratcher tooth" blade and i really like it......but I DON'T like that it's hard to sharpen....it was great in briars, etc.....
so you guys are sold on the chisel tooth blade? they claim it can be sharpened in the field.....
anyone have any luck with the fixed length line heads for just grass.....i would think .130 or bigger would last quite a while BUT sometimes thinner line of good quality will cut better....
who has a used fs250r or equivalent that is blown up....i got a smokin' deal on a fs250r without the bicycle handle bars........i want one with bars on it.......shoot, even one of my fs80's would be find with bicycle bars.......
I've use the 3 and 4 tooth blades. They work pretty well on grass and brush, but saplings tend to be too much for them. I'm not sure what you guys are referring to when you say "scratcher tooth" and "chisel tooth" blades. The one I'm using looks like a cheap table saw or circular saw blade... the teeth are a little different shape, and they have more offset than the circular saw blades. I sharpen it with a 7/32" round file, which seems to work fine... but then I'm not doing this commercially, just clearing trails and cutting out buckthorn.
This link has pictures of the blades.
http://www.stihlusa.com/trimmers/blades.html (http://www.stihlusa.com/trimmers/blades.html)
Thanks, Reddog. I'm using the Jonsered equivalent of a chisel tooth blade. I don't seem to have any problems with sharpening, just followed the directions on the package. I do have to reset the teeth from time to time. They tend to loose their offset over time... probably because I get lazy and try to cut down something too big (rather than get my chainsaw), and pinch the blade.
Quote from: Flatheadyoungin on November 22, 2009, 08:17:31 PM
so you guys are sold on the chisel tooth blade? they claim it can be sharpened in the field.....
It's not a claim, it's a fact. ;) I know some people that sharpen at night, but not very many. It don't take much time to touch up a blade and I see people waste more time "visiting" than blade sharpening. :D As I said before you can't cut larger dense trees with a claw like hook on the blade. Just a notch on the corner, like when you remove it from the carton, is what you want. Maybe your blades in the US are not pre-sharpened and set, we used to get those here, but all brands up here that I have seen the last couple years are sharpened and set. I can remember the Stihl rep putting on a training course and it involved sharpening. He went a bit over board, because everything is safety laden. He used a vise in the shop. Also showed that a snipped off poplar about 4 feet high in the field, and cutting a notch into the top, makes a good vise to. But no one does even that. You just place that blade stop in the gear head that comes with your saw and file with gloves on. But as soon as your starting to get a hook (cat's claw) to the tooth you have to flat file that off. That won't happen for at least 8 filings or so. And no you don't have to keep filing the blade as long as you stay out of the mud mounds, root wads and rocks. You can flat file 2 times, maybe 3, but by then it's time to unwrap a new blade from it's carton. :D Yes, you do have to set the teeth on occasion, but I never bother very often. More common in pin cherry and hardwood. There are cheap blades out there that are no good for anything. Stick with the brands that use hard Swedish steel, check where it's made. Japan had a blade brand that was too soft, they gave up making them and they are make in Sweden now. Might be different in the US, you guys get stuff in that we don't have here. I've got a whole pile of blades to fix up this winter, blades I never flat filed yet. I won't have to buy a new blade all next season. :D This season was 26 weeks long. ;D
SwampDonkey -
I'm not seeing what you are talking about with the cat's claw hook on the tooth from repeated filing. I'm using a 7/32" file (as recommended on the packaging) and putting it in one of those holders that support the length of the file - in theory keeping the file at the right depth, assuring the proper tooth shape.
Are you filing freehand and perhaps getting the hook, or am I missing something and maybe losing out on a lot of performance?
You're right, it doesn't take long to sharpen. I don't even lock the blade. I just prop up my saw so the blade is vertical, hold the blade with one hand and file with the other.
I'm cutting mostly hardwood saplings (buckthorn), if that makes any difference. This type of blade is pretty slow in grass or small weeds compared to the 3 or 4 tooth blades (that look kind of like an oversized throwing star like you see in the martial arts movies). My neighbor has the identical saw, but uses the chainsaw-style blade. One of these days, we'll have to swap to compare performance.
We run FS450s with the chisel tooth blade for our precommercial thinning operations. Primarily cutting lob pine and sweetgum, works great, especially now that I got the set tool. We were noticing that as we used the blades, they would lose their set and not clear chips from the cut. The result was a razor sharp blade that wouldn't cut a stick of butter :) Now that i've been able to put the set back into them, they are back to cutting quick again.
You could avoid the cat's claw shape by riding the round file high on the tooth I suppose, but that will still need filing off after a few sharpenings. A round file rubbed on steel makes a rounded gullet after awhile, sure ain't a square one. :D
I am a FS250 user. Great machine. Not an 8 hour day user, sometimes maybe 3 or 4. Most of my use is with a two-bladed swinging blade "micro-bush hog" (12"). The unit is machined aluminum hub, with two free-swinging blades at about 3/4" x 4" x .160". Nothing beats this blade setup in briars and really small brush. I will cut up to about 1 inch diameter brush, but that is about it, and it is best on 1/2" and less. My primary use is fencerow recovery--- just got to be careful and not get the blade into the steel t-posts. I bought the cutter head on e-bay several years ago. When the blades wore out, I couldn't find the seller again. So I build my own blades out of old (real-full size, I have 6, 7, and 15 feet machines) bush hog blades. Anybody ever used one of these swinging blade micro-bush hog setups?
My fencerow tecnique is to tractor bush hog close as possible-both sides if I can, then go through first with a MS210 Stihl (small) and cut everything bigger than 1"--load it on fork-lift forks on a farm tractor, for removal. I don't remove any of the trash from the FS250 work. And I am trying to move to spraying to help some.
I had my first trouble with the FS250 this year. Muffler clogged according to the Stihl mechanic. He asked about the oil I was using - it was Poulan synthetic. He said that's the problem. I have now changed back to genuine Stihl. Anybody any coments on this?
On the muffler clogging, just remove the screen and throw it away. Much cheaper than paying a mechanic to clean it for you.
I have seen a lot of buildup in mufflers from running Stihl mix (orange bottle) also, it's not much better than most of the marginal oils on the market. I run Stihl synthetic (black bottle), but it is quite expensive and most of my saws have been ported for additional performance. Echo and Husky synthetics are very good as well, and I'm sure there are other premium synthetics with equal quality and performance.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 26, 2009, 12:22:01 PM
You could avoid the cat's claw shape by riding the round file high on the tooth I suppose, but that will still need filing off after a few sharpenings. A round file rubbed on steel makes a rounded gullet after awhile, sure ain't a square one. :D
My blade came with a round gullet. The file holder I referred to earlier keeps the file high on the tooth, supposedly giving you the proper angle of the tooth point. I'd be interested to see what your filing looks like... makes me wonder if I could be getting more performance out of my brush cutter if I filed it differently.
John Mc
Your probably using the file guide with the 15 ° lines on it. Anyway, it's the guide we use. I think I said 20 ° earlier, but this one has a 15 °. Some people do file at 20 ° though. Out of the box, the blades we get are not round notched, they are flat sloped.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_BrushSaw-Blade.jpg)
Here is a blade that has been filed many times and developed an almost cat's claw shape. It looks sharp maybe, but wouldn't cut hardwood or dense slow grown softwood very well. The little whip sized hardwood and brush just spins around the blade in this condition. I have indicated where the rocks have been struck on the tooth edge and rounded it over with a line that indicated where it should be flat filed. The filing should slope at 15° with the set teeth across it's face, not radially to the blade centre. I use no guide for that, I just eye ball it. Tooth set would be checked as well. I free hand file, but use a file guide to dress the tooth back to like new with a 15° angle. I have a whole bunch of blades like this one that need flat filing and round filing back to like new. ;D
i'd like to know more about this "micro bush hog"
Quote from: eamassey on November 26, 2009, 07:11:42 PM
I am a FS250 user. Great machine. Not an 8 hour day user, sometimes maybe 3 or 4. Most of my use is with a two-bladed swinging blade "micro-bush hog" (12"). The unit is machined aluminum hub, with two free-swinging blades at about 3/4" x 4" x .160". Nothing beats this blade setup in briars and really small brush. I will cut up to about 1 inch diameter brush, but that is about it, and it is best on 1/2" and less. My primary use is fencerow recovery--- just got to be careful and not get the blade into the steel t-posts. I bought the cutter head on e-bay several years ago. When the blades wore out, I couldn't find the seller again. So I build my own blades out of old (real-full size, I have 6, 7, and 15 feet machines) bush hog blades. Anybody ever used one of these swinging blade micro-bush hog setups?
My fencerow tecnique is to tractor bush hog close as possible-both sides if I can, then go through first with a MS210 Stihl (small) and cut everything bigger than 1"--load it on fork-lift forks on a farm tractor, for removal. I don't remove any of the trash from the FS250 work. And I am trying to move to spraying to help some.
I had my first trouble with the FS250 this year. Muffler clogged according to the Stihl mechanic. He asked about the oil I was using - it was Poulan synthetic. He said that's the problem. I have now changed back to genuine Stihl. Anybody any coments on this?
I have been using Stihl synthetic oil since it came out. Worth the money if you don't want breakdowns and want your saws to last.
Stonebroke
Quote from: Rocky_J on November 26, 2009, 09:33:41 PM
On the muffler clogging, just remove the screen and throw it away. Much cheaper than paying a mechanic to clean it for you.
I modify the screen (replace) with a drain screen. Don't care how good the oil is, they clog up the screens in professional brush saws when used extensively. The drain screen doesn't and it passes inspection. ;D I use synthetic all the time.
Now I suppose the hit parade will start up. :D
Thanks to the discussions on this thread, I have purchased the husky harness for my new-to-me FS130 and at the same time, my chisel tooth blade arrived. The harness is great, easy to put on, even over jackets etc, and nice quick-release mechanisms are very ergonomic and user friendly. There is a quick release clasp on the chest to remove the whole harness and on the hook that holds up the brush cutter. I used the blade on 1 cm to 3 cm buckthorn - a very hard wood and up to 4 cm boxelder and it is NICE!!!! 8), like a hot knife through butter. It cut so fast I couldn't feel any change in resistance as the blade approached and then severed the stem. Just love it. The problem is I continually needed to stop the cutter to clear the brush which accumulated so quickly. It there a particularly effective technique for that, or does everyone always have to stop to clear the brush. Still learning :P.
Power is the answer, but not the end all. Still have to clear a wedged stem 1/2" diameter once in awhile from a FS550 guard as well. Don't modify the blade guard, although some shave off the outer radii of the guard. I didn't say anything. :X
As to your harness, keep an eye on the hook where it attaches to the brush saw. If the attachment point on the 130 is hard steel like on the 550 it will eat the harness hook up within a week of every day use. What I do is use a sacrificial hinged clasp between the harness and the saw. The hook on the Husky harness is softer steel than on the Sthil saw.
Quote from: paulpieter on December 30, 2009, 10:40:59 AM
The problem is I continually needed to stop the cutter to clear the brush which accumulated so quickly. It there a particularly effective technique for that, or does everyone always have to stop to clear the brush. Still learning :P.
I'm no expert, but I've found that sometimes different techniques in how you approach the brush can help. My first inclination was to push the blade into the brush ahead of me. This didn't work too well, since the brush always wanted to fall right into me and blocked me from the next few feet of brush I wanted to reach. Now I look to cut from the left side of the stem and use the cutting head to push the bases of the brush to the right, causing the brush tops to want to fall left. I also sometimes start the cut more or less from the opposite side of the brush trunk (the side facing away from me), and pull the cut ends towards me a bit. Even if the tops don't drop all the way they tend not top drop towards me, and I can more easily reach the next row of brush. I still may eventually have to push through some of it, or stop and pull it out of my way, but these two techniques do seem to lessen the frequency of needing to do that.
That's some of my rookie method. Hopefully, some of the more experienced guys here will give us both some better tips.
John Mc
Yes, the brush does not fall like felling a large sawlog tree. You go through the stem so fast that the force causes the top to tip toward the direction you came from. If your going to cover any amount of ground you have to have the brush fall out into the area already cut. When you cut, a little hillside is beneficial. Cut from bottom to top. If brush is falling in front of you, your going to be a lot less productive. Usually you cut across a face and snip from the left of the blade going to the right across the face, and from the right of the blade going left across the face. You sometimes have to direct the taller stuff or around maple clumps. When there are clumps you thin the stems of surrounding trees first, then go into the clump and space it out. The clump stems fall away usually with no hang-ups or tugging. But you'll want to snip off them little finer twigs that grow up and out like apple limbs first because they slap your face. That stings. :D You might think pawing brush or directing it by hand is non productive, but you will cover a lot more ground if you get the cut stems down to the ground. The job looks a lot nicer with no crop trees being leaned over by hang ups and no tee pees. On my advancing edge it's like a moving foot path, all I have to step over is stumps, no brush to wade. A little bit of a hook when severing the tree helps it tip in the direction you want.
I have not used my brush saws for several years (2 husky 265 I think that is the right number on them) I just hook the brown tree cutter up behind my tractor and I can clear out a lot more than 1 acre per day. It works very well in the ways I use it but there is still certain areas that a brush saw would be needed. I am on the other side of the sharpening thing from SD I liked to put a little bit of the cat claw hook on my blade as it seemed to cut better, don't know if this has to do with cutting mostly soft wood or not but it worked for me.
Two different applications. I'm talking spacing trees and cutting up to 6 or 7" but trees. I could cover more ground if it was just mowing down all the trees. And a tractor would never be able to leave the road in places I'm using the saw. Even in field with 20 foot spruce or birch is no place for a tractor. Now an excavator with a hydro axe or something or a mini blade on the front I can see chewing up the stems, but they don't use those thinning. They have tried though, and the quality was too poor. Too much residual damage, too wide a spacing and looks like the trail of death with spears left behind sticking out of the ground. As to the blade sharpening, the cat's claw is sharp for small stems, still not as sharp as I described, because stems the size of raspberry canes just whorl around the blade. But, when you get into the larger stems the profile your using takes too much bite and you loose saw momentum. I can push my blade into a 6" pin cherry like it's a chain saw, but not with a cat's claw profile. Maybe an inch, and that whoomph feeling. Too much bite.
Well as I was saying it has a lot to do with the type of work you are doing with the equipment you have.
Since Hurricane Isabel came through a few years ago, we have areas that were salvage harvested and replanted in pine. These stands are surrounded by mature pine stands, so natural regeneration has created patches with 10-20k TPA, sometimes more. I've been pre-commercial thinning loblolly pines for the past few weeks with an FS450, and we've been adding an additional step to dealing with the brush. Once we get the tree on the ground (a task in itself with 20ft tall trees as thick as dog hair) we go ahead and trim most of the branches off and then top the tree so it lays as flat as possible. This helps the stand look very clean when we are done (public perception is a big part of my job) and helps get those nutrients back into the ground faster. It takes some extra time, but the end result is something that looks good and doesn't cause my phone to ring with people complaining about how i've "destroyed the forest" :D
The tractor is used in clearing lots and stuff like that and it will take down your 7" trees with out slowing down any more than you do. When using the brush saw I get by better with the little bit of hook in the small soft woods as the brush saw will cut these just like a weed eater goes through grass. The point of my reply is to give the other members of the forum a chance to see what works in different areas of the world.
Nothing wrong with sharing your experience for sure. However, I can't really picture dragging a bush hog in 7" hardwood or even fir for that matter without being hung up or fetched up and spinning your wheels. I never seen your equipment. I have seen hogs here and 3" was pushing things. We used them some on fields to clear alder and willow for tree planting. Anything heavier than 3" had to be dozed (alders) when the ground was frozen so they would snap off and not move a mountain a good earth with them, or an excavator with an attachment to cut and mulch it up. But I hated working in those spears planting trees or sending anyone into it. Sometimes I had guys just cut it up with a brush saw if small acreage along the field edge. They used an excavator in pre-commercial thinning to make safety trails. It was a bad mess. Them spears about knee high, so you could bust a knee cap any moment. I'd rather cut my own trail or wade brush. They stopped using them when everyone complained. They are great on power lines and right of way and lot clearing I suppose, but not where I gotta walk through it. ;)
SD
I have a browns tree cuter and you can cut a 8 inch hardwood with it. You just have to back into it and hope it is not going to fall down and kill you. You can actually cut bigger trees if you take several different cuts into them. You are right three inch hardwood is about the biggest I would drive over. After that turn around and back. It also helps to have a versatile bidirectional tractor.
Stonebroke
A five year old Stihl FS100 that I have just had its fourth Ignition module failure.
(For any FS100 or FS130 users here: The symptoms when the ignition is failing is that the engine may back fire, or if it starts it will not accelerate, or if it does accelerate it will be intermittent.)
I had a digital coil from an OleoMac GS720 lying idle. I tried it on the FS100.
The result is to be seen to be believed. So have a look at it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAOa8JfBuAc
Joe
Never know when your picture is going to be snapped.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_brushcutting_FS550.jpg)
Me using my FS550 on the beginning of a new work strip. From about 12:00 pm until 4:00 pm I had over 1/2 of an acre cut in here. In the morning I had cut 1/2 an acre down the road. The trees are spaced of course, not all mowed down. The stuff got bigger, deeper in this strip. This was road side. I'm at a red maple clump in the picture. Two more days and I was finished this and 1/2 an acre off the back of the next strip behind me.
I wear plugs.
SD
How about some "after" pics of the area to show your "work". ? :)
I didn't take the picture(s) and I haven't any on hand of that site. Still pictures don't show thinning really well unless viewed from over head. I have some post thinning picts of my own land. But, as I said you can't see much. I can post one of those I suppose.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery1/albums/userpics/10002/SD_Thinnings-003.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery1/albums/userpics/10002/SD_Thinnings-009.jpg)
This was in 2007, when I ran across a couple bull moose muscling about 3 rows of trees away. Yeah, where are the rows? :D
Hardwood thinning is not as understood in the Southeast where pine is the major crop. I sure would like to read some short information from you northern Foresters about what is thinned, what causes it to need to be thinned (stump sprouts?), frequency of thinning, season of thinning and what the thinning accomplishes. It seems to me that thinning in a mixed-tree environment, like you have, would require some strong and ready identification skills, as well as a good knowledge of the growing characteristics of each species.
Tom,
The primary goal is to "release" the stand at a stage in development where dominance is not already expressed by certain trees of same species in the stand, or the height growth and girth is pretty uniform of that species and trees even aged. It increases growth rate, girth-wise, and improves health and quality of the stand. Usually treatment stands are of clear cut, fire or plantation origin. The idea is to select trees of quality with species preference dictated by the mills management goals (under their public forest license agreement). On sites with the majority of species not favoring their mill demands, species of quality are favored for other markets. There may still be species the mill favors that are found (ie scattered softwood). Selection favors quality trees of highest value and ranked in order of preference. In our area the top softwood tree is a spruce, then balsam fir, white pine, cedar, tamarack, hemlock. I will favor a cedar over a fir on wetter ground because fir needs lots of nutrients and doesn't like wet. On hardwood sites, which in our area is maple and birch mostly, we rank as follows: yellow birch, sugar maple, white birch, white ash, red maple, beech, aspen, black ash, gray birch, cherry (pin, black), elm and any odd balls like basswood and butternut I put at the top if they are decent trees. We thinned one site this spring with a lot of butternut, so I left them. The top three species of each group (softwood vs hardwood) are favored with the top 3 softwood being given highest rank. We delay treatment until sufficient height is reached and then space so crowns close in quickly to induce self pruning as the crown lifts and helps reduce stump suckers or slows them down so they eventually die out under canopy or become less competitive if they persist. Time of year up here depends on snow and being able to get to the sites. Only exception is extreme fire danger when you have to leave the woods by noon. The majority of our hardwood sites are not stump suckered. Only red maple and sometimes beech are bad for suckering and many times they are single stem trees as well. Sugar maple doesn't sucker from mature trees, and almost 100 % of yellow birch as well is seed origin trees, not suckered. A hardwood site can have 5 mature yellow birch an acre before harvest and end up 90 % yellow birch and thicker than words I'm allowed to use to describe it. ;D :D Most aspen is either root suckered or wind blown. On most sites in the out back it's wind blown and only road side for 150 feet or so deep. Pin cherry, gray and white birch is all seed origin after cuts and fires. All softwood is seed origin except planted trees, where there are often double or triple trees in a plug from the nursery. Some nursery stock gets thinned for doubles and such, but DNR doesn't seem to do it. I think Irving is about the only outfit that thins out the doubles before the trees go to the planting site. No scarcity of regeneration in this country. ;D Why some sites are planted is a head scratcher at times when I have to go in and start mowing some down. :D
Sometimes I even have to leave a willow or an alder and maybe even a serviceberry to fill the "spot". Usually the red spruce sites mixed with balsam fir are a solid wall of stems, except harvest trails. Branches all the way to the ground and intertwined like wire, so you cut 10 and they all fall or you pitch them like hay. Look out the sawdust doesn't hit ya on the way bye. :D :D :D
Now mix into all that the rocks, "chickos", blow dows, root wadsw, hard cedar stumps, and wet muck holes to work through. ;D
Quote from: joe_indi on February 06, 2008, 05:37:06 AM
Bmill,
You might find the Stihl "Comfort" harness more comfortable, especially for the wife.
Part No. 4134 710 9001.
The FS130 is torque y being a four stroke.In the Stihl brushcutter range, irrespective of two strokes and four strokes, I would place it between the FS 120 and FS 200.
But, the engine looks very much like that of a Subaru Robin four stroke brushcutter.
Whether this is a coincidence or not I dont know.
Joe
I don't know of the 120 and 130, as I have never used them (and don't really want to) - the specs of the 130 tell me that I am better off with my FS200 anyway!
I haven't tried the "Comfort" harness though, but my (trimmer expert) brother highly recommends it!
Swamp,
When you are thinning, are the thinning plans laid out before hand, to a certain extent (flagging, painting, etc) or do you and your crew have a general approach for what species are important and then just dive in, making decisions on the fly as you wade through the thickets?
Quote from: Tom on June 07, 2010, 06:37:22 PM
Swamp,
When you are thinning, are the thinning plans laid out before hand, to a certain extent (flagging, painting, etc) or do you and your crew have a general approach for what species are important and then just dive in, making decisions on the fly as you wade through the thickets?
Tom, the only thing marked out is perimeter of the work site and the strip lines. The areas between the strip lines are measured for area, that is what the guy gets paid for cutting. Individual trees are not marked most of the time. Where we cut in that butternut stand a few weeks back the contractor and probably the forest company didn't even take notice of the butternut trees. ::) When I ran crews I used to mark a specific tree to save if it was one of those odd balls species for the north such as an oak, butternut or basswood. Otherwise, the bark is so similar on young trees you could be cutting an aspen and it was really a red oak. You couldn't go out with the idea in mind of finding all those special trees, it would be impossible and no compensation in your pay cheque. ;) Up here softwood has a lot less defect in the stem than a hardwood. Spruce is king in the north where in the south it is pine. Most hardwood is pulp, the best chance of a hardwood log is going to be from a yellow birch or sugar maple. Those stump sprouted red maple are just fibre trees. We pretty much do the selecting and cutting on the fly for the most part, leaving the better looking trees as we go and try not to cut a lone spruce in a hardwood thicket. If so, better bury it. Ooops! Sometimes it can't be helped when the saw kicks or you direct a tree to fall and the saw takes a dive into a leave tree. :-X