iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Making a Cant

Started by DixieReb31, April 17, 2021, 09:33:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DixieReb31

They say there is no such thing as a dumb question, well I'm going to give it a shot.
Acquired my brand new LT35 on the 12th of April.  I have been sawing SYP all week making mostly 2x4's with some 2x6's mixed in, all 12' in length.  My question is, how large do I make my cant so the last board comes out correct? Or, am I spinning my wheels trying to figure something that will be what it will be?  Still trying to learn the scales.  I think I have figured out that if I want my green lumber to be 1.5" thick after having dried, I need to leave 1 5/8", so in order to achieve this I have to allow for kerf.  Therefore, I need to set the computer to 1 3/4" to allow for a 1/8" kerf.  Running double hard 7* blades.
I realize the diameter of the log will dictate the size of the cant, but should I try to mathematically calculate and cut down to that size or just make the cant as large as I can and if there is waste so be it?  Sorry to be so long for such a simple question.
WM LT35HD, John Deere 2040, John Deere 4044 w/FEL, Grapple, forks.

doc henderson

I have a Timberking.  so I have computer set works that allows for a 1/16th kerf.  I think many make 2x4 at 1 & 5/8th green.  most important to be uniform.  I cut the top off flat, and flip 180 to make some 3.5 inch beams the flip them all and cut the 1 & 5/8th inch thickness.  mine calculates from the bottom up, and can only come within an inch of the bottom.  others will chime in soon I am sure, unless they are out working.  congrats on your new mill.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Brad_bb

I'm sure there's a few different methods used.  For me, the log usually dictates how bit the cant will be.  There may be some side wood pieces outside of the cant if you are being greedy to get all you can.  Maybe some stickers... or narrow boards, or shorter boards.  I then figure out if I'm getting a beam out of the middle and then some boards on the outside how high I need to set my first cut up from the center of the log. This is probably when the outside of the log is very non-uniform. Or I may do that from the start and not make a can't first.  The cant may be, after leveling the center of the log on each end, half the beam height plus a couple boards.  I mostly do a combination of beams and side wood, unlike you.  Like I said, there will be a variety of ways people on here go about it.  You'll find what works for you.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Magicman

To establish your starting point for various thicknesses, I would recommend that develop a "cheat sheet" with starting heights about every 6" or so.


 
My cheat sheet sheet is seen in the top left corner of the Setworks cover but I very seldom have to refer to it anymore.  I remember most of them and if/when I saw some odd thickness, I just make a practice run to establish several starting thicknesses and jot them down.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dan_Shade

I second the cheat sheet idea.

I used one of these when I had the old setworks on my LT-40.

Your cant would be (number of boards) * (board thickness + kerf).

This will leave your last board a kerf thicker than the other boards, but probably close enough for most things. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

WV Sawmiller

   I absolutely agree, swear by and use a cheat sheet. Except for a few thin boards, as noted on the sheet, my final board is the same thickness as the rest. I use a 1/8" kerf and set the simple set on my mill to drop accordingly. Here is mine if you haven't seen it in recent posts. Just pick the thickness of the board you want and select the nearest starting point on the final turn of your cant before sawing to the rails from the appropriate column.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

KWood255

I am in the same situation, with a brand new LT35HD. I am pretty new to sawmilling, so I have lots to learn...With the Simple Set at 1 1/2", the board thickness comes out at about 1 3/8", except for the last (bottom) board, which is true at 1 1/2". I  understand the difference is due to the kerf, which makes sense. I am still having a hard time figuring out how to cut them all the same.

Are you basically adding the kerf to the desired board thickness on the Simple Set?

Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks.

123maxbars

I ran a 35 for about 8 years, the cheat sheet is the way to go and after a while you will loose it but a copy of it will be in your head for fast reference,  ;D
Sawyer/Woodworker/Timber Harvester
Woodmizer LT70 Super Wide, Nyle L53 and 200 kiln, too many other machines to list.
outofthewoods
Youtube page
Out of the

Stephen1

Quote from: KWood255 on April 17, 2021, 10:13:32 PM
I am in the same situation, with a brand new LT35HD. I am pretty new to sawmilling, so I have lots to learn...With the Simple Set at 1 1/2", the board thickness comes out at about 1 3/8", except for the last (bottom) board, which is true at 1 1/2". I  understand the difference is due to the kerf, which makes sense. I am still having a hard time figuring out how to cut them all the same.

Are you basically adding the kerf to the desired board thickness on the Simple Set?

Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks.
Simple as that. Add the kerf.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

WV Sawmiller

   My pointer is set so my last board is exactly that size. If I want true 1" thick boards I start with one inch then add 1-1/8" for every cut. 1, 2-1/8, 3-1/4, etc.

   If cutting 1-1/16 I start with a 1-1/6" board then add 1-3/16" up, etc.

   If your bottom board is a different thickness you are starting on the wrong mark. That is the purpose of the cheat sheet.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

KWood255

Thanks for the pointers fella's. Much appreciated. I plan on turning logs into sawdust this morning!

Jeff

Strive for boards instead. Worth more. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Kingcha

I don't cut many 2x4's but I made a cheat sheet that worked well for me on what size to cut the cant too.
I have a lt 15 with no computer.
Since I do not cut often enough I actually made a cheat sheet for 1x's too



I hope this helps
Matt B
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

WV Sawmiller

   I don't understand. ???

   If I wanted 1-5/8" X 3-5/8" boards I'd cut a cant 3-5/8" thick (Maybe several), stand it/them on edge then I'd start at a mark such as 19-1/8" and drop 1-3/4" (whether using my SimpleSet or by hand). My following marks would be 17-3/8", 15-5/8", 13-7/8", etc. until I ended on my final mark of 1-5/8" for my last cut. I set my pointer up so the mark on my pointer is the thickness of the board/cant below the cut.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Mountain_d

I use the quarter scale when sawing softwood (4/4, 8/4 etc) for framing lumber. I assumed others would do it this way also. Am I missing something? 
Mountain. 
1978 TJ 230E 3.9L Cummins 4B, Husky 372XP, Husky 61, Husky 266XP, JRed 625, Husky 265RX clearing saw,  Woodmizer LT40HD 1995, Kubota 4950DT (53hp 4WD), Wallenstein V90 Skidding Winch, John Deere 610 backhoe, 1995 Volvo White GMC WCA42T SA Dump Truck, 2004 Ford F-250SD 4WD, , Central Boiler OW

offrink

Whatever you want the board to be add 1/8" for kerf and shrinkage. If it is to be planed I would add 1/8-1/4". So a 1" both sides planed board should be at least 1 1/4". I'm no master sawyer (or most of the time even paid) but for my own use this is what I do. 

WV Sawmiller

Mountain_d,

  I confess I have never used my quarter inch scale since I have SimpleSet but my understanding is that an 8/4 scale would leave a full size 2" thick board. This thread started IIRC when the OP wanted to know the size and technique to cut dimensional sizes  of lumber to match finished dimensional lumber which, for example, would be 1.5" X 5.5" for a finished 2X4.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

DixieReb31

I guess my original intent when posting the OP was, after loading a log to be trimmed for a cant, do you try to remove ALL wane and let the cant be what it will be.  OR, after leveling the pith to avoid a wedge shaped cant do you consider what it is you are striving for (let's say in this case nominal 2x4's) estimate the number of boards you can get out of the soon to be cant and calculate the height and width and cut to those dimensions and let the wane be what it is.  clear as mud!
WM LT35HD, John Deere 2040, John Deere 4044 w/FEL, Grapple, forks.

Magicman

Here is an illustration of a cant being sawn, the cant then being split into 3 smaller cants, which were then sawn into 2X4's:  LINK
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DixieReb31

MM, I realize I'm making this harder than it really is.  I looked at the link you posted. It explains a lot.  I understood most of it.  Bear with me, I'm learning.  My questions are,  did you center the pith vertically before you opened the first face?  Do you always draw with crayon the cant you want per log, or was that just for demonstration purposes? How did you know how thick to make the flitches? Were you trying to salvage as much as you could by making the flitches 1"? (or so it appears)
WM LT35HD, John Deere 2040, John Deere 4044 w/FEL, Grapple, forks.

Magicman

Actually each of your questions are answered in the narratives accompanying the pictures: 

The log was turned with the horns facing the loader which almost always centers the pith, if not exactly centered, close enough. 

The red crayon was for illustration purposes.

The flitches were sawn ~"1½" and were later sawn into 2X6's.  My initial face opening height was so that after the flitches were removed I would be at my targeted cant height as shown by the red crayon marks.  I did not arrive at those points by accident, and notice that when the third face was opened, I reached the cant location which allowed me to split the cant into 3 equal cants while also allowing for the saw blade kerf between each.

Always establish your intended cant target before you make any face opening. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DixieReb31

I hope when I grow up I'll know as much and be just like you!
WM LT35HD, John Deere 2040, John Deere 4044 w/FEL, Grapple, forks.

Magicman

I was once young and dumb but I got over being young a long time ago!   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LeeB

Quote from: DixieReb31 on April 23, 2021, 11:07:33 PM
I hope when I grow up I'll know as much and be just like you!
May not just like. You obviously have never seen his feet.  :D :D :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Thank You Sponsors!