Get a rope thru tree crotch?

[kelLOGg]

I have a standing dead maple with the crotch 40 to 50 ft high and i want to get a rope thru it. I usually tie a small weight to a strong string and swing and release it and pull up a stout rope after it but I can't get it high enough on this one. It's not worth paying someone because it is dead and only 14" at dbh. I don't want to spend much time at the base with a chainsaw for fear of falling limbs. Pulling on a rope would assure me of the direction of the fall. What do you do? Bow and arrow?  

Pic to follow. Computer has some kind of problem.
Got it now.



 

[nativewolf]

I have a standing dead maple with the crotch 40 to 50 ft high and i want to get a rope thru it. I usually tie a small weight to a strong string and swing and release it and pull up a stout rope after it but I can't get it high enough on this one. It's not worth paying someone because it is dead and only 14" at dbh. I don't want to spend much time at the base with a chainsaw for fear of falling limbs. Pulling on a rope would assure me of the direction of the fall. What do you do? Bow and arrow?  

Pic to follow. Computer has some kind of problem.

fishing line on an arrow, rock with fishing line, potato gun with line.  Lightest line then switch to a heavier line, then rope.  

[charles mann]

How far you wanna chase that arrow? Got enough string? Whats the plan to get the string out of the limbs? Id use a spin cast reel or reel designed for bow fishing and turn the pull wt. to its minimum. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Its only 14DBH right?   You don't need to be 50 ft up the tree with your rope.   You can pull that little tree with your rope 15 ft up.   I read that your worried about falling limbs but I doubt they will come raining down.   I'd make a shallow face cut just deep enough to have a hinge at least 8 or 9 inches across.  Make your bottom cut meet it neatly so you have a good reliable control hinge.   
Cut in from the back and as soon as your bar is in even a couple inches pop a small 8 inch wedge in behind your bar.   The trees as good as down now.   Cut a little, tap that wedge a little.  If it binds and pounds hard put a second wedge in beside the first.  Alternate your blows from wedge to wedge. They go much easier that way.  Take your time, go slow, precise and careful.  Cut a little pound a little.  I doubt you'll even have to pull on your rope. .  

[lxskllr]

You could try changing your throwing technique. Try a two handed toss between your legs. Fix the line to your weight(a real throwbag is best), then take a bight of line through the hole you tied it to. That'll give you a single piece of line in one hand, and the doubled line in the other. The weight hangs between your legs. Get a good length on the weight for a comfortable throw, and swing it back and forth, like a kid on a swing. You're getting the feel of the weight, and calculating the optimal angle of release. When it all feels good, let it go, and hopefully the weight will go through the crotch. If not, rinse, repeat.

edit:
I agree the line doesn't have to be that high. I can't quite make out the pic, but if that's the lowest target you have, you gotta play the cards you're dealt.

[Jeff]

How far you wanna chase that arrow? Got enough string? Whats the plan to get the string out of the limbs? Id use a spin cast reel or reel designed for bow fishing and turn the pull wt. to its minimum.

I have a kids toy compound bow that has a 15lb pull. It's perfect. A small aluminum front weighted arrow, and the drag of light braided fishing line, it maxes out about 100 ft shooting straight up. You need a weighted arrow to pull line back over a limb.

[kelLOGg]

New plan. Thx for the comments. I can push up a looped rope to a knot (which is about 15') and take it from there. 

[charles mann]

How far you wanna chase that arrow? Got enough string? Whats the plan to get the string out of the limbs? Id use a spin cast reel or reel designed for bow fishing and turn the pull wt. to its minimum.

I have a kids toy compound bow that has a 15lb pull. It's perfect. A small aluminum front weighted arrow, and the drag of light braided fishing line, it maxes out about 100 ft shooting straight up. You need a weighted arrow to pull line back over a limb.

Which means 75'+ through limbs from who knows how many trees. That kinda stuff would make me invent new words not allowed on here or even around uncivilized people. If limbs above were a concern for ME, a tractor with pallet forks and a sheet of plywood as an overhead shelter to run the saw in somewhat safety. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well Charles I have done it hundreds of times with little issue. I used to use the bow and short fishing rod method for hanging wire antennas high up in trees for ham radio fun. The last few years, just for pull ropes taking trees. I use a 30# recurve youth bow and the bottom section of a spinning rod and reel with 25# test mono. I made some flu-flu arrows (look it up) took the point off and slide on a dummy head, I tape a 6" long piece of 1/8 SS rod to the front for weight, I slip the fishing line loop over the flat tip of the arrow then slide on the Rubber tip to hold it on. When I shoot, I ignore any small branches and just try to find a clear hole for the shot placement I need. Normally one shot, but sometimes two. As soon as the arrow clears the crotch, I garb the rod tip and line and apply pressure to slow it quickly. I let it settle, then allow it to drop straight down. I remove the tip and tie a light line to the loop and a turn of electrical tape to make it flat. I pull it back over in jerks to pass through the small branches. As soon as I have the end of the line back to where I shot from, I attach a stronger line on the other end and yank that over. Then I tie a decent pull rope on and get that over (1/2" -3/4"). I wrap the tree end around the trunk a time or two and tie it off about neck height, the other end goes to the pull system.
 Sounds complicated, but it takes me about 5 or 10 minutes to get it done. I ignore all those small branches because once you have a hefty rope up and put a load on it, it generally finds a straight line and those branches slide off and fall out of the way.

[Skeans1]

Its only 14DBH right?   You don't need to be 50 ft up the tree with your rope.   You can pull that little tree with your rope 15 ft up.   I read that your worried about falling limbs but I doubt they will come raining down.   I'd make a shallow face cut just deep enough to have a hinge at least 8 or 9 inches across.  Make your bottom cut meet it neatly so you have a good reliable control hinge.  
Cut in from the back and as soon as your bar is in even a couple inches pop a small 8 inch wedge in behind your bar.   The trees as good as down now.   Cut a little, tap that wedge a little.  If it binds and pounds hard put a second wedge in beside the first.  Alternate your blows from wedge to wedge. They go much easier that way.  Take your time, go slow, precise and careful.  Cut a little pound a little.  I doubt you'll even have to pull on your rope. .  

If it's truly dead the last thing I'd want to be doing is wedging a tree, I'd be putting in a decently deep pretty open face to get the center of gravity to do the work for me.

[Jeff]

I would like to see the guy that can toss a line straighter and avoid more limbs than I can than I can shoot one. Ive put lines up in the tops of my oaks for many things many times. The low stuff, say 25ft, I have a soft ball with a hole drilled through it.

[chet]

I realize we are only talking a small tree here. But a word of caution for someone attempting this on something much larger.   When pulling a tree be it by rope or cable, always make sure the stress of the pull is directed to the trunk of the tree or large enough portion of said tree that it will not break away during the pull. If at all concerned test your setup. Before any cuts are made, apply more than enough force than will be needed for the pull , then back off. Now you can safely proceed with your pull.

[Old Greenhorn]

Chet, you make a good point. I see a lot of folks who put a lot of strain on that pulling line and it scares me. It's like they are trying to 'break' the tree over without proper felling cuts. When you do that you raise the risk quite a bit. Certainly your line, the connection point on the tree, and the anchor/pull point should all be overrated for the load.
 I can only see two reasons to put a pull line in a tree, it's either to effect or ensure it goes in the right direction, or it's to overcome a little back lean that is borderline for getting it over otherwise. I only use that technique when there is property (buildings or other tangible stuff) that could be damaged. If it's just trees, I usually have enough confidence to get it going the right way. But my house, shop, or anything else, I put the extra insurance of a few minutes work into it to make sure.
 Truth be told, just about every tree I put a rope on a tree, it fell where planned with barely a pull at all. The last one I did dropped right where it needed to go before the puller could even get the rope tight. The rope is there IN CASE it tries to go the wrong way.
 I have a line hanging in a EWP in my front yard as I type this. I am waiting until some dumb best buddy stops by and offers a hand. I do need an active puller on this one. If it sways a little off it will take out the wife's favorite something or other in the middle of our front lawn, and if it sets back and breaks over it will take the power line off the house. It also may hang just a bot on the branches of another tree it is going up through, so giving it a pull to get it going the right way will help on this one. But it is by no means a scary tree, just a PITA pine. :D

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Lots of good suggestions and opinions expressed here.  Its tough knowing the very best way to get on without actually seeing the tree.     To tell you the real truth if a guy isnt 100 percent certain he knows what hes up to and totally confident of a successful out come he ought to leave it alone and get somebody to drop it that knows how.    Lots of men have been hurt or killed because they took on something they could not handle, but thought they could.

[kelLOGg]

I pushed a looped heavy rope up about 13 - 14 ft and will try to get it a little higher tomorrow. Pics to follow then. 

[petefrom bearswamp]

We have felled a good number of leaners, trees close to the road etc with the leading line only up12 to 14 ft.
Of course the Farmi with 150 ft of cable helps here immensely

[NE Woodburner]

I've also pulled over some big leaners with my 3ph tractor winch. One thing I found to be careful of is when pulling with the winch cable my Norse sometimes wants to pop out of the cable lock position to free wheeling. You really have to watch that so the tree doesn't set back if you let off tension. I found it best to cut carefully and wedge the tree over as much as possible then use the winch to control the fall as insurance rather than trying to force it.

[kelLOGg]

I pushed the rope up to 14' with two 1 x 1 x11's and ran the other end of the rope to the hand winch secured around the base of a big pine. A neighbor cranked the winch while I made the felling cut.
Tree got caught in a nearby oak so we re-attached the rope to another tree and pulled at 90° to the original pull and down it came. 8) I think it was very good advice to not pull from high up the tree given how easily the upper trunk broke.
Looks like there might be some nice spalting.




 

 

 

 

[slider]

We have found that a 14 oz throw bag on a 1/8 line is best . Tying off at the base will be fine most of the time .My guys can put one close to 80 ft. We use different pulling ropes depending on what is around , yesterday we did a 100 ft large pine next to a brand new 350,000 dollar excavator , good drop zone but i used a 7/8 in samson  just to give me peace of mind , that 200 ft rope is $550 it worked . The machine was locked up so we could not move it.Dead trees we put a rope in and give a good tug first. 

As for pulling we pull with a 72 horse skid steer , we started with a winch but the tree will out run the winch if you don,t keep pressure and give the sawyer tine to steer it. I know this from 14 years of tree work and having a few close calls.

[Andries]

. . .  I know this from 14 years of tree work and having a few close calls.

The 14 years of work give you the technique, the right gear, and a bit more confidence with the tricky jobs.
.
The close calls give you the 'burned into the memory bank' reasons to take your time, double check and do it right the first time.
Well done slider and kelLOGg !

[kelLOGg]

Are those branches on the ground to keep the trunk from hitting dirt and thus causing milling problems?

[thecfarm]

I would guess so the tree don't make a dent on the lawn.

[Andries]

That's the idea cfarm.
There's a concrete drive under the short logs and giving the big trunk a crash pad is the plan. 

[chet]

We always did that in residential settings. You never knew where buried utilities such as water, septic, sewer, drain tiles, gas lines, or sprinkler lines might be lurking. Also a good way to span over sidewalks or flower beds.