Constructing a walking bridge and dealing with the powers that be

[chesterspal]

Thanks for all the help I was given when I asked about installing a culvert on my land. Much appreciated. That project will come up this spring.

I now have a new issue on the same parcel. My neighbor is refusing to sell me an easement to cross his land off the ROW (also on his land) to my property. No easement means I now have to cross a stream to get to the lower portion of the land.

This will no doubt involve the state conservation and/or town inland wetlands departments and that whole kettle of fish.

At a bare minimum, I'm looking at a flat bridge 48" wide by 10' long. Two steel H beams sitting atop a 6 x 6 x 6' PT beam at each end. The deck composed of 2 x 8's. This will be "marketed" as a walking bridge (the main purpose for it) but built so as to support my riding mower, ATV and small Bobcat.

The actual location seen here:

All kinds of issues to potentially deal with. 

1) Can the end beams sit on land that may be wet from time to time... i.e. after the May thaw, heavy rains, etc.?




2) I will need to clear a path to the bridge and fill it in, where necessary, to get to the stream. There can be limitations on doing that within a certain footage of wetlands areas.



No large trees need come down but some of the rats nest of new growth will  need to be cleaned up.
The main issue is a clear, stable path for the Bobcat. No issues for my Honda ATV and my mower can probably almost make it.

I'm hoping someone on this forum has had to go through a similar process and can shed some light on what I should do... how much I should reveal about my intentions and to whom... Basically, how to proceed to get the job done but not run afoul and get fined in the end.

All comments are welcome as I greatly appreciate the feedback   :new_year:

[GAB]

Please fill in your profile so we can at least know what state you are in.
This would help in getting advice from someone who has been there in the same state.
In some states the rules are different for agricultural uses.
Good luck and Happy New year to you also.
GAB

[chesterspal]

The land is in Vermont. It is set up for the forestry program but not as agricultural.

I guess that makes us neighbors  :D

[GAB]

The land is in Vermont. It is set up for the forestry program but not as agricultural.

I guess that makes us neighbors  :D

Well in that case - Howdy neighbor
GAB

[doc henderson]

the near bank looks pretty muddy/soft.  how far back will the ends need to be to have solid footing.  You may want the bridge elevated some to account for the beams and may want a hinging approach to move if the supports sink in the mud.  with such a small bridge and a bobcat, at least every so often you can go and lift an end to put rock under for more support. you may want 3 6 x 6s side by side to broaden the footprint in what looks like mud and start throwing some rock in there.  I have no experience getting permission and have never had to apologize either.

[doc henderson]

does your neighbor have a valid concern, or is he just one of those guys?  I guess he should hope he never needs a favor from you.  Are you new to the area? 

[chesterspal]

does your neighbor have a valid concern, or is he just one of those guys? ...  Are you new to the area?

I've done nothing to him. The prior owner was a logger who had full access to his land for all his heavy duty equipment for almost a year. Maybe he had had enough so when the land got put back on the market, up went the No Trespassing signs. I cannot say for sure. I offered to pay for it. Was not looking for something for free. I'm just a recreational owner and I live in another state so my access needs were really minimal.

Water over the dam as they say. I've moved on so I won't comment further about that aspect.

As to your suggestions about footing on the mud.... that is all tentative at this point. Right now I need to grapple with getting clearance (or not). The final design issues will (hopefully) come later.

Hope I can get help from you all, now.

[Southside]

Honestly you will be better off getting this done and done right, each and every ROW I have ever seen has eventually ended up in a peeing contest. 

[Ron Scott]

You should check with the local County Drain Commissionaire to see if the stream is a certified drain and with the local State DNR as to what the Best Management Practices are that they recommend and will permit for such water crossings so that you will know what's legally required and can comply with their minimum requirements.

[beenthere]

We see lots of ATV and snowmobile trail bridges put in place that would likely work for your walking bridge.

[Magicman]

I would lay a header on each side, parallel to the stream, for the bridge stringers to rest on.  I would want the stringers to be at least a foot above the high water mark because flood water can have much lift and strength/force.  I would also want the upstream side to be a couple of inches lower than the downstream side.

[chesterspal]

You should check with the local County Drain Commissionaire to see if the stream is a certified drain and with the local State DNR as to what the Best Management Practices are that they recommend and will permit for such water crossings so that you will know what's legally required and can comply with their minimum requirements.

I understand this.

I'm hoping, in the interim and with the holiday, there might be someone on this forum who has had to do it and can recommend the do's and dont's of how to proceed.

These state folks have their loyalties to their employer (and rightly so) and can make things way more difficult and costly than they need to be.

I have no qualms about taking the high road, but there may be things I do not need to bring up that can come back to bite me in the behind later on.

Thanks

[thecfarm]

What little I know, "them" people do not walk around looking for things that are wrong. Most times someone reports a problem, and they go check into it.
Question is, how do you really get along with your neighbors?  ;)
Now if it's on a main road and they drive by and see it.......
I have a small stream, kinda looks like yours, that borders my land. If I had to cross it that would be a problem. It might be 10 feet wide in places.
During the summer, except for this year, it might be 2 feet deep. Now its 4 feet deep and about 20 feet wide. meaning it has overflowed the bankens and has spread out over dry land. It's that way now. We had a wet summer and we had about 6-7 inches of rain in 2 weeks.

[stavebuyer]

Farm Service Agency if you want to be legal. Most aren't.

As to the particulars I don't see much of an elevated bank, and I would think you would need a couple feet of clearance over the current stream level to keep the bridge from becoming a dam during flash floods. If it's not practical to get above the expected high-water mark then you need a good way to anchor the I beam.

[chesterspal]

Farm Service Agency if you want to be legal. Most aren't.

Assume this is what you're calling what VT refers to as the Dept. of Environmental Conservation (?)

Since you brought it up and just for discussion... what happens to the "most aren't" ?

[Southside]

FSA should have an office within the local USDA office where farmers go to report harvests and such. 

[chesterspal]

FSA should have an office within the local USDA office where farmers go to report harvests and such.

Well, for what it's worth... and as I stated already... my land is not registered as farm land.

It is set up in the VT forestry program. I'm not aware of any perks in regards to bridges and streams, but I stand corrected if someone on here is.

[Southside]

They will be the subject matter experts when it comes to crossing surface water.

[doc henderson]

If I had an opportunity, I would be curious to ask the prev. owner about the relationship.  seems odd.  again, may be water under the bridge, but I also like the old saying, "seek first to understand".

[stavebuyer]

Stream Crossing (No.) (578) Conservation Practice Standard | Natural Resources Conservation Service

Your life will be much easier if you intend to develop your little stream bottom to produce a few blackberries or pasture a few goats even after further analysis you decide to abandon the idea.

[chesterspal]

Found this.

It may just be the answer to my prayers.

I have highlighted the pertinent portions. Your interpretation is most welcome.

The way I read it, I can have a bridge (up to) 5' wide that is (at least) 12" above the water with a deck having (1") spacing.

I can create a clear path to the bridge with fill of under 250 square feet worth. So, there can be a 5' wide path that can extend 50' from the stream.

If I follow their quidelines, I do not need to pull a permit and I should not need to go through an inspection.

[doc henderson]

That is great!

[chesterspal]

That is great!

Thanks, Doc  smiley_blue_bounce

[Ljohnsaw]

Nice guidelines. However, I read the approach fill limit as a total of 250 sq-ft. It says cumulative. So, that means you can have, for example, a 5' wide x 25' long ramp on each side of your bridge. That's still a respectable length.

[John Mc]

If you are in Vermont's Forestry Current Use Program, the first place I would go is to my county forester. Tell him/her you need to establish access on the Right-of-Way to your land which will include a stream crossing, and ask them what you need to do to accomplish this legally. If you have a copy of the language in your ROW description, it would be helpful to bring that along with you to anyone with whom you are discussing this.

You have the right to access your land. You just need to make sure you are going about it the correct way.

I'm a fellow Vermonter here in Monkton. What town are you in? I may have some contacts in your area who could be helpful.

John