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Wood-Mizer LX450 vs LT50 wide

Started by Kristen24060, September 03, 2019, 08:55:08 PM

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Kristen24060

I've been caught by the sawmill bug and am trying to figure out what mill I will need.  I want to be able to saw a ~32" wide slab, so I will have to get a wide one and probably hydraulics to help handle the logs.  The LX450 looks like a really solid heavy duty machine to me.  Woodmizer says that the cut is the same between this and their cantilever saws.  I don't see how this can be the case.  Usually, the heavier a machine is, the smoother it cuts.  The LX450 out weighs the LT50 by 1000 lbs. 

They also say that the LT50 is more portable.  I don't understand this either because with both machines, I'm not strong enough to pick up the hitch end and push the trailer around.  Once it is attached to the truck, I doubt I would notice an extra 1000 lbs.  Maybe the LX450 is a few feet longer, but I don't see it as being that much less portable.  The built-in levels are used to adjust the feet on the LX450, but I doubt that that adds more than 5 minutes or so to the setup.  Could someone who has used an LX450 let me know how much worse it actually is for portability versus a cantilever machine?  I'm not going to be moving it daily or probably even weekly.  Maybe monthly to pick up some extra money.

I'm also wondering about the resale-ability of the LX450.  Maybe the biggest difference is more related tradition and few would give the new design a chance apart from people who just want a stationary mill in a 4-post design.

Aside from this, one other possibility would be for us to buy a used excavator to handle the logs and a LX150 or LT15Wide.  This would be about the same cost as a new LX450 or LT50.  It wouldn't be super portable, but at least we could use it on our property and maybe get more use out of the excavator for pulling stumps. 

Any advice you could give me would be extremely helpful.

Thanks!

SawyerTed

There's a big difference between the manual mills you mention and the hydraulic mills.  There's a huge difference in the board feet/hour.  Part of that difference is log handling, part is setworks and part is horsepower.  Heavy doesn't necessarily make better lumber, much depends upon the sawyer and other factors.

So my questions are what is your purpose for owning a sawmill?  What type of lumber are you trying to make and how much of it?  

Answers to those questions should help inform your choice and help folks here offer better suggestions.  The hydraulic mills you mention are expensive and near top of the line in production and features.  There might be less expensive machines to meet your needs Without going to a completely manual mill.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WV Sawmiller

   I started with and am accustomed to the cantilever head and the 4 post 450 looks awkward to unload with for me but I have only seen it used in a short demo and am sure I was not seeing optimal work flow. I will be watching this thread to see what reports are made. On the resale I suspect the 450 has not been out long enough to have anywhere near the resale history of WM's other mills. JMHO. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Kristen24060

We have a lot of large black walnut and maple trees that I would like to saw into slabs and boards to build cabinetry and furniture.  It would be too much of a shame not to harvest the wood and put it to better use than for firewood or mulch.  This is what caused the bug to bite - the dream of making my own furniture from my own trees.  We have a nice wood shop and have spent a fortune for hardwood lumber over the years for our projects.

Sometime this spring, we are going to be building ~400 ft+ of wooden fencing.  A nice sturdy fence out of freshly milled cedar would be awesome.  I have even found someone willing to sell me the cedar logs!  Thousands of board feet will be needed.  I could hire a sawyer or do it myself.  I figure hydraulics would be the way to go, but if we take our time, I'm sure we could get it done manually if we had a way to load the logs and serve as a hoist if we need to turn a big cant. 

We are also dreaming of building a timber frame garage and house some day. 

I'm hoping that if we go full hydraulic, we will be able to occasionally make extra money sawing for others and be able to share/trade sawing services for wood species that we don't have growing on our property.  So possibly, the extra cost is justified.  If we go with a manual mill, most likely we would only be sawing what we have on the property and hiring out for anything else. 

Given that we need a Wide mill, that leaves only a few options.  An LT40wide would work, but after upgrades, there is not a big jump to the LT50 wide with all its extra features....

Kristen24060

I watched the Woodmizer demonstration at Ligna.  The work flow with a cantilever mill looked really slick, especially how they tossed the flitches onto the loader arms to await edging with the mill later.  I also like the drag off function and offloading platform of the LX450.  I wonder if a short table with a skid on top can be put next to the machine so that we don't have to lift the boards to get them off.  Just slide them right onto the stack and sticker as we go. 

nativewolf

@Kristen24060 Please search for and read @Stuart Caruk threads on this very very same topic.  He had a 50 or 40 and moved to a lx450.  Portability is related to the time it takes to get the mill level and locked in, the 450 was knocking mill out of alignment after returning the head.  He bolted his to his pad.

He loves his 450, he has done many modifications.  

If you want to mill in one location the 450 may be superior, if you want to be mobile than maybe the cantilevered mill.  

He feels that the mill quality is far better on a 450 than the cantilevered head he had before.  

Read his threads and I think you'll find every question answered. 
Liking Walnut

Bruno of NH

I went from a 4 post head to a lt40 wide hydraulic and I'm very happy it nice to have the open side when unloading.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

John S

I have been told that the LX450 is not easy to setup, level and keep level, compared to the LTs.  With an LT (40 wide in my case) it only takes about 5 minutes to set up (I do use a level).  With the twin rail mills (which are much heavier) you have to keep the tops of both rails in the same plane.  In that case, the extra weight can work against you.
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

SawyerTed

Because you want portability, the LT50 Wide would be my choice to meet your needs.  The LT40 Wide would work as well.

Either sawmill would work stationary.

Hydraulics on the sawmill or not, if you are going to harvest your own logs, you will need equipment capable of skidding and staging logs.  A 36" diameter 8' long walnut log is going to weigh around 3,000+ pounds.  It's easy to under estimate the difficulty in handling logs.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Kristen24060

I'm sure that it will be a lot of work, although hopefully, some of it is fun.  I'm also sure I don't know the half of what it takes. 

We have a small tractor that we can use to skid the logs.  It won't lift the big logs, but it can probably lift one end of the log from the hitch and drag the other end of the log.  I don't know if a log arch would also be needed. 

Southside

My suggestion would be to visit a couple of mills in the capacity / sizes you are considering, one being hydraulic and one manual - if you are still considering that option - to get a first hand experience on just what is involved.  Promotional videos are done in perfect weather, with perfect logs, and by operators who are wearing clean clothing - so they have not been grabbing that Peavey for 6 hours at that time and off boarding lumber.  

Use a Peavey to hook onto a 24" white oak, 16' long, that has some sweep to it you didn't see before loading it and you will quickly understand the forces involved with sawing.  

At the end of the day the mill is only a temporary stopping point for any lumber you produce, log handling, slab removal, lumber stacking, sawdust clean up, and bark chunks, are all part of the equation you have to deal with so the operation has to be looked at as a whole.  A top of the line mill in a tiny, crowded space with little support equipment will get left in the dust production wise compared to a well laid out system using a middle of the road head saw.    
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Stuart Caruk

I can say with certainty that for portable use I'd go with the cantilever machine. But my LX450 is fixed and bolted in place. I can easily load a 40' log and just recently processed a huge order none of the logs loaded weighed less than 16,000 #'s. 4 really large temple logs made 2, 2 log loads. The first 2 weighed 58,600#'s. I've been rolling them onto and flipping them on my mill, and all I can say is that it is way stouter than a cantilever mill, particularity my extension. For giggles and grins I checked the bed rails today after 18 months of heavy logs. They were still all level. Bang on the same distance to the blade all the way down the mill. so as for the 450 going out of alignment... pffft, not that I've seen.

Does it have its issues, sure, anything mechanical does, but overall I'd buy it again in a heartbeat. If I could just get another few inches across the blade guides or go up another foot... Of course then I'm pretty sure I'd put bigger logs on. Maybe I need a swingblade mill. I'm looking for a used one.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

thecfarm

I have a manual mill. It's only for my own use. I cut the tree down,saw the lumber,than build. Sometimes from tree to building in an hour.Turning logs by hand is slow,sometimes I get the tractor involved to turn the big ones. Still slow. Yes,I am by myself,but it's still slow. Have to hook and unhook a chain and the chain placement needs to be just right. Yes,it can be done with a hoist,as you mentioned,but still need to hook up a chain to turn the log,slow. 
Did you caught the slow word? ;) 
Slow also kinda goes hand in hand with the work word too. ;)
And on the excavator or tractor to turn logs. I try not to use my tractor much on the mill,except on the bigs ones.Once I get 2 sides squared I am all set.Things happen!!!
Just one little mishap can do damage to mlll. And than my saying,We Are Saving Money Now!! ::) comes into play.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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