The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: cliffreaves on August 04, 2016, 09:17:59 PM

Title: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 04, 2016, 09:17:59 PM
I know you fine people can offer guidance on this topic.  Some of us are far more organized than others and can structure their days, weeks, months, and even years in a way that is beyond my comprehension.   I'm more of a go with the flow kinda guy, but if I have a project that I have guaranteed within a certain time frame then I will find a way to get it done.  However, life happens to us all and there may come a job that just can't get done on time. 
Dilemma:  if I have a project that I estimated would be done within 15-30 days and it has now been 75 days.  No true finishing point is presenting itself.   What is my responsibility as the producer of the project?  What is the best way to approach the customer?
1. The customer has paid in full
2. The customer has asked a couple times about the status.
3. I have already purchased all the materials to produce the project.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Jim_Rogers on August 04, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
You have two choices.
Do the project next, if possible.
Or refund the money and return the materials purchased.

If you want to do the project, contact the customer with a sincere apology that his project got delayed because of other "life" events (some beyond your control). And ask him if he wants you to proceed or to stop and get a refund. 

Good luck with your situation and hopefully all will work out.

Jim Rogers
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: WV Sawmiller on August 04, 2016, 10:02:34 PM
   I think Jim is spot on with his answers.

   Another question - did you promise to complete the project by a certain date? If so and you have not been in regular contact and I were the customer I'd be pithed. Having said that you may still salvage your reputation by contacting the customer with a sincere answer and apology. If he wants you to continue I'd also be thinking about how to offer something extra to make him think the extra wait was worth it. Make it bigger, better, prettier, or whatever applies or offer a discount as appropriate.

   IMO your reputation is your most important asset.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on August 04, 2016, 10:20:40 PM
Are all your projects like this or is this a one time occurrence?
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: North River Energy on August 04, 2016, 10:31:48 PM
Bad customer service is not communicating with your customer, and then making excuses when you know you aren't going to meet your obligations .
It's one thing if the customer continually issues changes to the project, and those changes create delays.
It's another if you bit off more than you could chew, or didn't account for the possibility of the 'life' wrench dancing among the gears.

Give the customer the option of a refund or further delayed delivery at a date you absolutely know you can meet. Present them the opportunity to exercise some control over their situation.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 04, 2016, 10:56:19 PM
Alright, I'm actually the customer in this situation.   I'm sorry for posting in the way I did, but I'm really trying to put myself in this guy's shoes and I'm trying to give him the benefit of every doubt.   I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on my situation without potentially shedding a bad light on someone.   However, I didn't think about how bad it would make me look so now I'm regretting my approach in the post.  sorry again if the way I posted this seems deceitful, but I just wanted to make it more of a "parable" post for myself. 🤔
I think I'll contact this guy one more time and see if he can push my project through quickly or refund me.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Sixacresand on August 05, 2016, 07:42:23 AM
Quote from: North River Energy on August 04, 2016, 10:31:48 PM
Bad customer service is not communicating with your customer,
I ordered a metal carport.  It was suppose to be delivered in 3-4 weeks.  They called in about 6 weeks for a delivery date, missed, rescheduled, missed, rescheduled, missed.  All the communication was from the company office.  Never had communication with the installer, from whom I could have probably got a more realistic installation date.  Finally, I cancelled the order even though I lost a $100 down payment. 
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: gspren on August 05, 2016, 09:17:29 AM
  Your statement "no true finishing point is presenting itself" makes it sound like you are not sure how to finish. You may need to get help even at a loss.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: never finished on August 05, 2016, 04:45:57 PM
 cliffreaves nice of you to come clean. But I think your approach was very well executed. That's one way to keep your friends honest. Maybe one last friendly visit. Explaining this is the last friendly visit. To give this person their chance to come clean as to what the real problem is, would be appropriate. That's great advice someone that might not handle it so nicely. I'm sure I should, just don't know I could. Good luck   
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 05, 2016, 10:23:49 PM
I made one more phone call this morning.   There was no answer so I just left one last firm but friendly message.   I said I needed to hear from him a definite completion date or I would regretfully have to cancel my order and request a refund.  (Bare in mind I've never heard from this person, but have received email responses from his assistant).  Later this evening, I received a notification that my item had shipped.  Finally! lol .  So, if I like the product, and think its well made, should I recommend it to people or not?  What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 05, 2016, 10:37:25 PM
Quote from: never finished on August 05, 2016, 04:45:57 PM
That's one way to keep your friends honest.

That was the exact intent.  I'm glad you understood that.😃  It still felt shady after I did it, so probably won't try that again.  Lol
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: North River Energy on August 05, 2016, 10:51:51 PM
You'd have been better off to shoot straight from the get go.
In both circumstances.

I tend to recommend vendors that don't need prodding, and take it upon themselves to do the job for which they've been paid.
There are those who obviously want your business, and those who don't. Assuming I had friends, I wouldn't knowingly expose them to unnecessary headaches. :D
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Brucer on August 06, 2016, 12:05:18 AM
Wait until you get the item(s) before celebrating. 35 years ago Barb and I ordered a custom-made bed from a local furniture store. The store owner dealt with a manufacturer from Quebec and had a few very nice examples of their work on display.

We finally received the bed (6 week delivery) a year later. We and the store owner were very frustrated: during the course of a year, the bed had been "lost in transit" 3 times, the factory had "burned down" twice, and several times they were "sure we already shipped it." The quality was excellent but we'd never have ordered if we knew what a run-around we'd be getting. The store owner felt so badly that he knocked the price down.

The lesson here for all of us is to never place a customer in your position. If you have a problem making a deadline, tell the customer right away. Be sure to keep in touch regularly during the delay period. Customers hate to feel that they're being ignored; calling them before they have to call you shows you aren't ignoring them.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: YellowHammer on August 06, 2016, 12:36:41 AM
I never recommend anybody that isn't reliable, dependable, skillful, diligent and honest.  Certainly, I have been snookered more than once, initially, but never would I give them repeat business.  I abide by the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 06, 2016, 01:05:42 AM
Quote from: North River Energy on August 05, 2016, 10:51:51 PM
You'd have been better off to shoot straight from the get go.

I totally agree.  Hind sight is... well you know how the rest goes. 
You guys are right of course.   I hope my run around isn't as bad as what some of you have described, sheesh!  I think my best course of action assuming I receive the item and love it, will be to just be thankful I didn't have to wait longer and count my losses.  If it doesn't get here like it's supposed to, I'll just get my $$$ refunded. 
One more dilemma:  if someone is contemplating buying the same item as I did, I'll feel obligated to warn them about what they may have to put up with.  Once again if I think the product is good, but they'll just have to wait longer than expected without any real effort for communication, then that'll be easy to explain.    However, if the product also doesn't compare to other similar models then should I adamantly steer people away from this product? Or should I just keep my mouth shut and give this guy another chance to either redeem himself or repeat his mistake?
I've spent most of my adult life working in customer service and i obviously have a hard time complaining about someone else...
Thanks for bearing with me on this post.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: thecfarm on August 06, 2016, 06:29:28 AM
When I buy something,I want it. Yes,if they say it will take 8 weeks to build it,than I wait 8 weeks. As I say,I work hard for my money and I buy something,I want it to work the way it should and I want it when they said it will be here.
I feel you have gotten real bad service,I myself would not send anyone their way. What will happen now,if the product does not work well under the warranty time?
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: cliffreaves on August 06, 2016, 08:03:30 AM
Supposedly there is free lifetime service according to the website.   If I get a lemon, I'll just fedex it back and have PayPal get my money back for me.  Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Ox on August 06, 2016, 08:44:35 AM
The suspense is killing me!  I'd love to know what is sold today with free lifetime service.  Latest great thing that happened in my meager little life is a new DeWalt angle grinder, 4 1/2", with a free 1 year service and repair plan.  3 year warranty and a 90 day money back guarantee.  Sounds good, right?  I bet if it came right down to it, this would be a nightmare to get through if needed, all the while you're without a grinder!  :D

Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Savannahdan on August 06, 2016, 12:01:40 PM
When this type thing happens you (the customer) generally share the bad service information with other folks.  I had a similar thing happen recently in which a local lawn mower shop was to do some work for me.  My equipment sat at their facility for over 4 months.  They were telling me that they couldn't get the replacement part from the manufacturer (Kohler).  So I grabbed the bull by the horns and bought a brand new part off of Ebay for about a $100 less than the original quote from the local shop.  In the interim I commented to at least 10 or more folks how bad the service was.  I got my equipment and it runs great but I also lost some business during the interim.  In a nutshell I will not be using the local shop again.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Oliver05262 on March 12, 2020, 10:23:50 PM
I just found this thread, and I was going to give it a like until I noticed that it was 4 years old! It does describe me to a "T". I have a dozen projects in various stages of incompleteness, and my honey-do list is even longer and growing almost daily. "Hers" come first, "ours" are next unless they are mostly hers, and then my plans come tagging along behind. I am still out doing repair jobs for customers, and it's hard to say no to old friends. I do admit that I have to get my priorities straight.
Dang! This is starting to seem like a meeting where I stand up and say "hi, my name's Oliver and I am a guy who can't organize my time".
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Don P on March 12, 2020, 11:04:47 PM
Hi Oliver :)
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Bruno of NH on March 13, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
I'm with you Oliver
Hope all is well with you and Harriet. 
Stop in some time this summer and check out the bobcat 974
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: thecfarm on March 13, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
I have more projects that I know I will never see done. But I'm not promising something to a customer either. 
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Jim_Rogers on March 14, 2020, 10:06:10 AM
Now I find my self in this situation.
I agreed to cut out a full barn, that is all the timbers for the timber frame some 87 timbers of all sizes and lengths.

to date I have produced and he has picked up and paid for 19 of them leaving 68 to do.
We agreed that he would come over every weekend pick up what's done and pay me for what he has picked up.
things were going along as normal until winter hit and slowed things down. Then the calendar changed and he said he was a CPA and couldn't come over on weekends as he was doing taxes on the side.
So, I told him that's ok as I had some oak order to do. His order was for all eastern white pine.
I get three times the price for oak as I do for pine. So sawing oak is great for me.
And I usually push those orders to the top of the list to be able to pay off bills.
Now, he says he's ready for more timbers. And I have still got at least 4 or 5 more oak orders to process.
And he wants me to commit to having all his timbers done by 5/1/2020.
I really feel that I can't do this without hiring some help to move the side lumber off the mill and timbers as well as the slabs.
I have developed a pinch nerve and my neck and I have been on self selected "lite" duty for the last 6 weeks. Only sawing a little bit every other day or so.
And with everything else going on in life, I don't believe I'm going ever going to finish his order. Certainly not by 5/1/2020
All my plans for travel to conferences, expos, and workshops have just all been canceled and or postponed due to the hype of the virus.
Which now gives me more time to cut oak. If my body can handle it.
I guess I should tell him that I won't be able to meet his deadline and see what he wants to do. Cancel his order or wait. He says he doesn't really want to wait (in an email).
I am turning away work, literally every day, both sawmill and design work, as I am telling people that I have a minimum of three months work to do, just to fill current orders because besides his pine barn I have two other sheds orders part done. And they are wanting their lumber/timbers soon as well.
Oh, what to do.
Sorry for the long post, just needed to get it out.
Jim Rogers 
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: doc henderson on March 14, 2020, 10:17:22 AM
Jim you seem to have very high standards for yourself.  your client worked around his schedule.  I guess if he is unable to help, he could pay for you to hire a helper.  If the agreement was he would help.  or he can try to find another sawyer, but they are prob. busy like you, or just getting started, or not so good as they have time to suddenly take on this order.  If he is an accountant, he should be able to understand (like it or not)  that you are running a business.  Seems to me he did not hold up his end.  Is the pine profitable enough to hire an off-loader?  might help your neck issue and if they are good, maybe used for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Jim_Rogers on March 14, 2020, 10:24:12 AM
I have a retired carpenter that hunts the land out back and he has helped me before.
I was thinking I'd see if he could help me some more this spring to get caught up.
Jim Rogers
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Andries on March 14, 2020, 11:12:27 AM
Jim, you are in a sort-of good predicament.
You have many orders coming in.
People want you for your timber frame design skills.
Travel to teaching and expo events is filling your calendar.
We all have to adapt to the flow of business and our own abilities. 
Nothing stays the same for too long.
Find the extra help you need. The retired carpenter guy sounds perfect. Treat him well, and set up a working relationship that works for both of you.
Your CPA EWP client had an agreement that didn't include a hard deadline. You have a business to run, and you should probably stick to the original plan, or agree to let him find his timbers elsewhere. 
I agree completely with the comment that bad communication is the bedrock of bad customer service.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: dgdrls on March 14, 2020, 04:30:07 PM
Hi Jim,
first and foremost take-care of yourself.

couple questions, thoughts;
Did the CPA client actually help you saw or just come and pick-up what was done?
How did you "fit-in" the previous 19 timbers?
Can you cut 10 timbers a week for him?  68 timbers, 7 weeks until May 1

D


Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Banjo picker on March 14, 2020, 05:52:08 PM
Too bad the OP for this didn't say how it ended.  Banjo
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Jim_Rogers on March 15, 2020, 10:16:06 AM
Quote from: dgdrls on March 14, 2020, 04:30:07 PM
Hi Jim,
first and foremost take-care of yourself.

couple questions, thoughts;
Did the CPA client actually help you saw or just come and pick-up what was done?
How did you "fit-in" the previous 19 timbers?
Can you cut 10 timbers a week for him?  68 timbers, 7 weeks until May 1

D
Dgdris:
He just came and picked up the timbers on weekends, sometimes Sundays.
I was sawing his order to do the 19 timbers. But as you know you have to deal with all that slab coming off the logs and all the side lumber. So some days I only sawed one log, with everything else going on, such as tool sales.
I would have to do two a day for a five day week to do 10 timbers a week. And my sawmill is in an open yard, no roof so if it rains I'm not out there.
I would think that with a helper I could do more than 2 a day, hopefully.
But, then it is the added cost of the helper.
I have been considering increasing my price to cover his pay.
Jim Rogers
PS thanks to everyone for all your advice.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: WV Sawmiller on March 15, 2020, 11:28:15 AM
Jim,

  Can you hire help and still make a profit on the deal even if not as much as you had planned? If so I'd do it then get on with my other backlog of projects. I would be very reluctant to raise prices on this deal. Maybe in the future you have 2 rates - one leisurely and one expedited. You might even offer this deal to your customer since he is now the one basically stopped the work and is now proposing a time line. Good luck.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Hilltop366 on March 15, 2020, 02:17:21 PM
If you have a idea how much a helper will increase production then you will be able to get an idea on the cost increase if any.

Not sure I made my point clear there, my thought is that even though your hourly cost go up by paying a helper and the increase in blade, fuel, lube and wear on mill your production also goes up. 

So you need an equation and some experience or advise (someone else's experience) to calculate the difference in the board foot cost of milling.

So do you get:

(1) No change in board foot cost = higher production = you make more.
(2) An increase in board foot cost = (a) cost not offset by higher production = you make less.
                                                      (b) cost offset by higher production = you make the same. 
                                                     
(3) A decrease in board foot cost = cost more than offset by higher production = you make more.

It would be interesting to know and be able to say what is the best route. Hope you are feeling better soon.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: Magicman on March 15, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
But when it rains what does the help do to remain profitable.  Same when work is slack or you simply want/need some time off from sawing.  Most reliable/dependable help needs a job where they can depend upon the income.  Nothing is simple.
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: doc henderson on March 15, 2020, 03:39:44 PM
so you got your oak jobs that pay good, but you can only work every other day due to your neck pain.  so if a helper gets all your oak and plus some timber frame timbers, seems like a win win.  i agree you need to look at cost.  usually timber by the b.f. can be more profitable cause a few cuts and you got a high b.f. timber.  if you keep the side lumber there is more profit.  if your labor guy is retired , he may not care if he works 2 hours or 6 hours.  if he is contracted labor, then it saves you paying all kinds of insurance and taxes.  you might even have him work on shares if he has a tree to mill later.  or God forbid, you paid him the green stuff. I assume he will be able to acquire skills to run the tractor ect.  and knows his way around a work site.  If your accountant customer is a decent guy, and realizes he may have to go elsewhere, maybe he will step up some on the price.  good luck, and I hope to see a pic of your accountant on your happy customer thread!
Title: Re: Behind on projects can = bad customer service
Post by: dougtrr2 on March 16, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
What would your customer think if he read this thread?  From one perspective:  You agreed to do the job for him, I am assuming he didn't put a gun to your head.  Now, life has intervened on both sides.  Weather, which should be no surprise, tax season, injuries, additional better paying work. He may have set the deadline just because he feels like you are dragging your feet. To me the only "right" thing to do is get his job done and out of the way.
 
Doug in SW IA