You're not a logger until you ---

[olyman]

get 3/4 ton 4wd stuck in the mud....get skidder stuck trying to pull out truck....get d6 stuck trying to pull out skidder......give up and climb onto atv to go home and get it stuck.....walk 10 km to the cabin and realize you left keys to your car back in the truck.....decide you really could use a beer rite about now......only to remember you drank the last one a couple of days ago.......

   fuzzy--i nearly spit pop all over my screen--muwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

[olyman]

used a set of sears craftsman side cutters them out..i felt right at home.. ;D

 

In another place and another dimension  ;D, many, many years ago, I needed a farm trailer load of yellow poplar.  Had some trees growing around the edge of a pasture, each one standing alone.  Collected my brother and stuff and went to the field.  This was when I was young and foolish........as opposed to old and foolish; didn't own a hard hat.  Both of us looked the first tree over and saw nothing to worry about.  When it started over, a limb about the size of my forearm and 4 foot long came down and hit me a glancing blow right on my haid.  It knocked me down, but I didn't think I was hurt.  My brother looked and said it didn't look bad, but I probably needed some stitches.  Went by the house to tell my wife we were going to the E R.  I was bleeding like a stuck hog, so my brother went inside and said "thurlow's" not hurt bad, but we're going to the E R.  Walked in; they weren't busy for once;  I said, "You oughta see the other guy".  None of the nurses cracked a smile.   So they put in 4 or 5 stitches and said, "You can get someone to take them out in a week or so.  Time came, just me and my wife around.........she's a little squeamish, but got her fingernail clippers and eyebrow tweezers; cut and pulled the first one.  It hurt worse than the tree limb hitting me.  I said, "*DanG, woman, DON'T PULL THE KNOT THROUGH MY SKIN."  :D

thurlow--dats a good un!!!!!!!!! lucky she kept taking them out though!!

[Gary_C]

GARY-C:what does a guy have to do to be a master logger??
i think i know but,i just had to ask.. :

delbert

I did start this thread and somehow knew there would be many responses. However, on a serious note, the answer to the above question is, in my opinion, the following:

If you are smart enough to be a master logger, you will either be retired or not cutting trees with a chainsaw any longer. There are just so many chances for dumb mistakes, unseen hazards, and unforseen events, that the likelyhood of being injured or worse is just too high. In Minnesota, the work comp people have a unstated but worthy goal of getting all loggers off the ground and into the cab of a machine. Sure, it will cost some money, but it will be better than costing your life. Right now, there are many good used feller bunchers and even cut to length harvesters available at very reasonable prices. If you cut trees for a living, this is a good time to look for a machine that will move the clunk on the head to a clunk on the roof.   8)

If you need help in finding a machine, check this listing: Richards Machinery

[twobears]

GARY:well said.

[Greenedive]

If you are smart enough to be a master logger, you will either be retired or not cutting trees with a chainsaw any longer. There are just so many chances for dumb mistakes, unseen hazards, and unforseen events, that the likelyhood of being injured or worse is just too high.

Hmmmmm Gary
It is a trifle more complicated than that. Maybe it has something to do with our 'intelligence', but I think most chainsaw men feel like gun owners do....they'll give up their saw when they pry their cold, dead fingers off the handle. Beyond the fact that most of us can't afford the price of a feller-buncher....even one of the Bellsaws, is that we like what we do. We chose not to work in an office or a factory. We know when we get home at night that we have done an honest day's labor and we feel a certain pride that we have done it the old way. Most of us have been running saws since our teenage years and we KNOW the risks and dangers. Most of us have a few scars and all of us could tell a few stories....but I think it is more than that...there is something about the feel of a saw in your hands...the challenge of placing a tree in the exact spot where it is eaiest to get out without damaging other timber....the satisfaction of thinking through a dangerous situation and figuring the best way to relieve that tension...or bring down that widow-maker. We know that a chainsaw operator has one of the most dangerous jobs on earth....we don't believe a race car driver, or a sky or scuba diver, or a jet pilot has anything on us. No, we are not cowboys and no, we do NOT take unnecessary risks....but....when we've met a challenge (mental and physical) and the leaning oak veneer on that steep hillside is on the ground (laid flat on the crotch so it didn't split)...yes...there is a thrill and a deep feeling of satisfation from our work.
There is no doubt that it is safer from the cab of a feller buncher....and that we won't be near as physically drained at the end of the day....and to work in climate-controlled comfort would be like a bit of heaven on earth....and to cut timber with a joystick as if we were playing a real-life video game has to be pretty cool....but am I ready to trade my 660 in and hang up my hard hat???
:D :D :D.....well....maybe in a few more years. ;D

[Gary_C]

Greendive

Oh yes, I know that feeling. But there is also an old Yiddish expression that says "We grow too soon old and too late smart."   ;D

[Greenedive]

"We grow too soon old and too late smart."   ;D

Sadly true, Gary.....but to grow old without doing that which stirs the blood...that is sadder yet.
My mind says you are right...my heart says I am too. ;D

[Gary_C]

In a few years, your whole body is going to know I'm right.  :D

[twobears]

BOY!!it,s getting deep in here.but,there true words being spoken.i,am 40 years old and i look atleast 60..i feel like i,am atleast 100 most of the time.but,it,s ok because i have no regrets and i,ve lived life enough to feel i really understand it.i just wish i could be 16 years old again and know what i know now

delbert

[Greenedive]

In a few years, your whole body is going to know I'm right. :D

:D :D Good one, Gary!!
Sure I have more aches and pains when I crawl out of bed on a cold morning than I did when I started 30 years ago...but....looking at guys around me who have been in an office or in a factory for 30 years...I feel pretty darn good! ;D

Looking back over my life...I have some regrets and can think of some things I wish I had done differently....but my choice of occupation isn't one of them. My job suits my temperment....I don't have a boss breathing down my neck every minute (though I think when you take pride in your work, you are more demanding than any boss could be), but my job has been good to me. I work fairly hard, but the money has been good. Being self employed, if I need to take time off, I have no one to ask. If I need more money, I can work more hours. By working alone I can set my own hours and work my own pace. I'm one of those guys, who if I worked in an office or sat in the cab of a machine would probably weigh 400 pounds...I don't have to worry about that in my work. And...on a day like today when it's pouring down rain...I can work on equipment or run for parts...or do whatever loggers do on a rainy day off. :D

I have never been bored......

[Gary_C]

I am not advocating a change in occupation. My point is to spend some money, even borrow some to make your workplace more safe before one of these events catches up to you. Then you will be a Master Logger.

[Greenedive]

Hey...I wouldn't mind trying out one of those $100.000 chain saws...they look like they could be a lot of fun to run....but I'm just not quite ready to give up what I do now. I enjoy it too much.  ;D

Gary,
I respect what you are trying to get across, and though I might not totally agree with you (I believe there will always be a place for a man on the ground with a saw), I appreciate your concern for safety. Don't get the idea I am trying to denigrate the hard work people do running those big machines...and some day I may chose that route...but right now I am perfectly content with my 660 and my Timberjack. I will say though...that IP tried a couple feller-buncher crews here some years back...and they were NOT happy...I talked to the head forester in the local office and he said it looked like a plowed field when the job was done, all the cherry regeneration was destroyed...not a good thing for this area. :( I don't remember what brand FB it was or what time of year...but I do know that after those 1st couple jobs they went back to chainsaws and skidders.

[Ed_K]

 Gary C, my problem with Master logger Cert. is $$$ I don't see how a person running a saw and skidder or a CTL operator can afford it. And I see that GOL is now $150. per level,that really shocked  me.When I did all 4 levels it was $250. now your looking at $600. how can I recommend a person to do the GOL with a price like that.
Equipment is definately lower priced now.

[Tom]

That's the deal with education.  When educators see that you will pay, they begin to look at what the market will bear, not what it costs to present the information.  Then, if they can make their course "required by law" they are in the driver's seat and the tail begins to wag the dog.

It is the same of all industry self-policing.  You can look at the required grading rules of most building and zoning departments to see that the "big boys" of industry have manipulated themselves into a position of control.

[Gary_C]

We have used the term "Master Logger" rather loosely in this thread. Here in Minnesota they recently started offering applications for certifications of "Master Logger" and I tossed them in the round file. Not only because of the $350 application fee, but I do not presently see a need for this certification in my work. Plus it was just a little irritating that they promoted this certification process as being approved by Time, Inc. Time is also one of the major players that is forcing the forest certification thru their enormous paper purchasing power. I think it is sad when blackmail and not consumer demand can force certifications of both woodlands and loggers.

So for the present, I have chosen to not participate, at least right now. 

In Minnesota, we have what I consider to be very good training. Every year we take a one day free Logsafe class that includes the chainsaw safety, first aid and CPR, and general workplace safety training. It is run by the MN Dept of Labor and Industry, the Work Comp people, and when you take this every year you are eligible for the Targeted Industry Rebate program and you are eligible for safety grants of up to $10,000 in matching funds for projects that improve your workplace safety.

The other training program is the Minnesota Logger Education Program where we do have to pay membership fees of at least $150 per year and attend at least one day of free training on a variety of subjects. This membership is required to sell pulp to most mills in both MN and Wisconsin. They just released this years training programs and you can read about that program here: MLEP

This years subject list includes the following one day classes:
Timber crusing for loggers
Federal taxation issues for loggers
Dirt, trees, and timber sales
Silviculture
Timber sale design cross training (loggers get to tell foresters how to mark trees so the sale can actually be cut without so much damage. There has been much discussion about this subject as some foresters do not understand how to mark trees with the operator in mind. On some jobs they have had to abandon the marks and let the operators select the trees to be cut. Another problem is placing the marks on just random sides of the trees so the operator cannot make just one pass thru and see all the marks)
Forest roads & skid trail construction & maintenance
Accessing aerial photos, topo maps, and other planning tools
Hardwood training
Intro and Intermediate GPS
Skilled driver training
Business management & computer workshops
Truck weight compliance training
One on one business assistance
Invasive plants of Minnesota's forests

An impressive list and I will probably sign up for more than the required one.  8)

[semologger]

can cut a straighter line on plywood with a chainsaw than a skillsaw.

VERY TRUE

[thecfarm]

Forget to take pictures of some big or nice looking trees that you have cut down.