Let's talk grapples!

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all,
I've got a new tractor coming next week and with that, having the 3rd function installed for a grapple.  I am debating which style grapple to get and thought I'd post here for feedback and collective years of experience for insights. 
The 2 main style options I see are shown in the attached picture.  One is the clamshell style where bottom part of the grapple is more like a root rake and then top grapple piece on it.  Second style is also in the picture and is more like an open skid steer bucket that is flat on the bottom part and then the top grapple above it.  I go back and forth which style would suit me best.  I am curious which style grapple you have for your tractor and sawmill and what you have liked and not liked about it.

Clamshell pros and cons:  PROS: you can pick up just about any size log and clamp down tight on it.  You can push brush around maybe better than the bucket style.  CONS: You can't open the grapple and use it to stack milled lumber in it kind of like on pallet forks.  Any log you pick up you will just to grab it in the grapple vs just letting gravity keep it in a bucket. 

"Bucket style" grapple:  PROS: can stack lumber in the bucket part and move lumber around without having to switch back to pallet forks (though forks can hold more lumber obviously).  Can pick up multiple logs easier due to the lower bucket portion of the grapple.  CONS: Maybe not as easy to push brush around.  Top grapple doesn't pinch fully closed to the lower bucket so there is an opening that is always there = smaller logs will bounce around. 

For context as to my planned use:
I've got a Woodland Mills HM126.  I will probably upgrade that in the next year or so but it's a good little mill for the price and just milling for projects on my homeplace.  I don't have a grapple on my current tractor but do have pallet forks.  LOVE the pallet forks!  They are extremely handy for moving logs onto the mill deck, moving the milled lumber, etc.  I currently use the forks to load logs on the mill deck and then I park the tractor next to the deck and stack the newly milled lumber onto the pallet forks and then drive the lumber over to where I am stacking it.  But they can be a bit aggravating with logs rolling off, etc.  As well, I've got 90 acres here I maintain with roads, etc. I have some brush piles I want to move from clearing out some privet thickets, and need to clear that area out as I want to plant it for food plots, etc.  So a grapple seems would be very handy. 
I am leaning towards the bucket style grapple though the fact the top part of the grapple doesn't close down 100% to the lower part causes me concern if logs will still bounce around.  I am thinking with smaller logs I can just keep them at the end of the bucket and clamp the top down on it. That keeps the log further out on the bucket which reduces the lift capacity but if they are smaller like that it won't much matter as tractor has around 2600 lb lift capacity.   The bucket style grapple I am looking at has about 24" clear opening on the bottom of the bucket.  That would be enough space where I could still use it to stack milled lumber onto it to go stack just like I do my pallet forks currently.  If I don't have that style I am afraid I'll be having to switch back and forth between the forks and the grapple over and over and that would be a pain.

Another option could be getting the clamshell style grapple but then also get the pallet forks I've seen with a grapple on that as well.  Many a time I wish I had a grapple on my pallet forks and for around the mill that would really work fabulous but I do have the 90 acres I maintain so I still will be wanting a grapple of some type for downed trees, brush, etc.




 

[scsmith42]

I have found the bucket style to be more useful around the mill.  I call mine a "grapple rake" bucket.  In addition to the reasons that you listed, with the bucket portion flat to the ground you can zig-zag the skidsteer from side to side as you drive it and smooth out rough ground.  I find this useful where the ground gets torn up around the slab pile and also log infeed deck area.

I also need to brag a bit about Loflin Manufacturing - the manufacturer of my grapple rake.

http://www.loflinfabrication.com/rootgrapple/

Back around 2010 I needed to rebuild the hydraulic cylinders on my Loflin root grapple.  This was a used grapple that I had bought a few months prior from a guy down in Florida.  I contacted Loflin, and purchased two cylinder rebuild kits.  When I took it apart (there are shields over the cylinders), I discovered that the cylinders were welded together - not very easily rebuildable.

I placed a phone call to the Loflin parts dept, explained my predicament, and asked if the cylinders were rebuildable and what the cost of replacement cylinders would be.

The parts rep explained that some early versions of the grapple had been supplied with welded cylinders, and when customers complained that they could not rebuild them the company decided to replace the cylinders - for free.  He told me that if I shipped him my existing cylinders (on my dime), they would send out brand new replacements on their dime. I thanked him, but explained that I was not the original purchaser of the grapple.  He replied that it did not matter - as a company policy they stood behind their product.

I pulled my cylinders off Wednesday A.M. and shipped them the same day, Friday afternoon two brand new cylinders showed up on my front porch.

Now that's great customer service.  They did not have to do this - I had asked about purchasing replacements, and for a company do volunteer this - especially in this economy - says a lot about them.

I've since bought some pallet forks from them, and they are my #1 go-to company for any skid-steer related attachments.  Customer service like that is rare these days!

[Tony Sawmill]

That's a great point about the flatter/bucket style grapple being used to zig zag to flatten out the ground! I didn't think about that but that would definitely be handy.  Heck I use my pallet forks that way already hahaha.  That is great about the manufacturer you mentioned.  Looked at their website- they look well built.

[beenthere]

You didn't say what tractor, but I added "The Thumb" to my forks as I didn't think I wanted to add so much weight as a grapple. Works great for logs, rocks, and especially for brush/tops. Stands up out of the way when open for pallets of firewood on the forks. Also, pull three pins and carry it off when not needed.



 

[DocGP]

First off, I will never be without a grapple again.  They are too handy once you get used to them.  I have the clamshell type which I find very handy around the farm and find it great to transport logs, clean up tops, build brush piles, pushing up lanes in mild brush, and such.  I do think around the mill, the bucket type with short forks would be more handy.  I plan on picking one up also.  I think it is a bit redundant, but I can't toss cut offs, or stack fresh boards on the clamshell type if I need to.  Sometimes I have a second tractor with forks, but that is not always available. 

Doc

[rusticretreater]

I thought about these same things before opting for a full grapple from Everything Attachments.  I'm thinking with 90 acres that you will benefit from this as well.

I have 8 wooded acres of good and bad trees.  I have bent and leaning trees.  I have to get into brush.  Two years ago a storm came through and took down 12 trees.  Grapple to the rescue.  When cutting some of this stuff I can make it much safer by grabbing these trees to stabilize them while I cut.  Especially the leaners. It also holds logs so the blade of the chainsaw doesn't get pinched. I am also able to root rake out the vines and those *DanG sticker bushes too.

Yes, I am in the quandary of having to decide when to switch between the grapple and the bucket/forks and plan operations around that.  I am pretty klutzy when it comes to using the tractor and the easy grab of the grapple helps me alot.  Also, I find that it is easier on the mill to set the log on it using the grapple rather than rolling it off of the forks. I have a lot of 14-20 inch diameter logs.

The forks do provide the benefit of moving the lumber.  So which is more important?  The forks/grapple setup will work well in the lumber yard but is not suitable for everything in the brush. I opted to build a trailer to stack the lumber on and pull it to the drying area and went with the full grapple.

[YellowHammer]

I am not a big fan of a grapple around a sawmill because I can't move pallets of lumber (every board that comes off the mill needs to go on a pallet, skid, or pack) so since a grapple can't move pallets or units of lumber, it's pretty much useless to me at the mill unless you have a forklift or other unit with pallet forks.  Load a half dozen so logs on the mill, then one pallet of lumber needs to be moved, and repeat.  Again and again, year after year.  Grapples are heavy, and reduce your loader carrying capacity, and they will allow you to pick up heavy logs off center that pushes your center of gravity to the side and will stand you up on one front tire.  I have a sawdust bin that fill up and needs to be moved with forks, I have logs that need to be moved (the mega mills here all use Deere loaders with forks for moving logs) and unloading trailers of logs is better for me with forks because I can hit their gaps better. 

On the other hand, there is nothing that beats moving brush, clearing debris off trails, and using the "ground bar" on the bottom of a grapple to sift and break roots and clean up a log yard.

I have my forks on the loader 90% of the time, or more.  However, trying to clean up brush with forks is a waste of time compared to a good grapple.  I like the split front ones that close independently. 

[Magicman]

I just finished sawing a fairly large Cypress job.  The customer started with the grapple on the skidsteer but changed it to the pallet forks after the first log.  The log handling was fine but not so much with the slab, timbers, and lumber handling.

Each have their advantages.

[customsawyer]

I keep a grapple on my tractor as I use it to unload trailers with sides. I prefer the grapple with the curve on the bottom teeth. I use the bar between the teeth to do any ground leveling that is needed or the box blade on the back. Around the mill I use forks for everything. 

[moodnacreek]

If you can see the forks and have enough tilt back the grapple just gets in the way of your vision and gets caught on things and is a 3rd valve to operate.  Talking yard work not brush or scrap clean up. We had a grapple here on a skid steer and tired of it quickly. Only used it to do clean ups.  A single 'thumb' in the middle, removable, would be my choice.

[DanL]

I took a slightly different approach. I have a 65 HP John Deere 4 WD with front bucket. I wanted a grapple and studied on it for a while. Then I found a Titan "Log grapple" on sale with free shipping. I thought that I would try it. Man this thing was fantastic! I can pick up brush, push brush and logs, gently place a log on the sawmill, etc.,etc.

I already have a separate fork lift attachment for my front end loader [drop off the bucket and hook up the fork lift]. I then acquired the grapple attachment that mounts to my forklift attachment. Now this duo of attachments is the Cats Meow! One can pick up and haul stacks of lumber, bushes and debris and many other around the mill and woods chores.

I had need to use the log grapple to clear out an old garden filled with 2-4" diameter saplings and other brush and weeds. I took an old grader blade and bolted it between the two bottom arms of the log grapple so that the top hydraulic finger would come down and meet it like an index finger and thumb on your hand. It was a half acre old garden slap full of unwanted woody trees and shrubbery. In 1 hour I cleaned up that garden by plucking out the saplings with my Grapple finger and digging up any thing else with the 24" grader blade bolted on the bottom. I piled the debris and saplings and then grabbed large bunches of them with the grapple and removed them from the garden.

I cannot live without these grapples now.
Dan

[CCCLLC]

I also have purchased a Titan log  grapple for my JD. Love it. Perfect  width for unloading home owner trailers with sides . Brush cleanup is also possible.  Thumb add on to the pallet forks may be my next purchase.
Titan again.

[KenMac]

Well here's my $0.02 on the grapple subject: It really depends on what you'll be doing with the grapple. I bought a used flat bottom type grapple first and quickly found that I couldn't dump brush on a pile easily. I didn't have a mill then, so carrying lumber wasn't considered. I sold that grapple and bought the curved tine type from Everything Attachments and it hardly ever comes off my tractor. I move logs and pile brush with it. To move lumber I put pallet forks on.  I'll never own the flat tine type again, but I would like to have two clamps rather than just one, as mine is now. I've considered cutting the center tube and separating the two sides.

[OlJarhead]

I love my root rake grapple and wouldn't change the style because I have a bucket and a set of pallet forks.  I like different equipment made for specific uses as they do better than something made for multiple uses typically and with skid steer type quick connect on the loader I can change each easily.

My only advise is spend the extra money, if possible, to get the GOOD and heavy grapple if you plan to root rake with it as the lighter ones tend to bend easily -- If I only picked up logs my lighter LS Grapple is great and gives me more lifting power (because it's lighter) but when I root rake with it I tend to bend tines.

You can see it here: Find Out if this Tractor Grapple Is Worth the Price Tag - Tractor Talk #tractor #grapple - YouTube

[Nebraska]

It sort of depends on the scope of your milling.  If you are blessed with enough time to mill multiple logs and move an actual pallet full of lumber ..... disclaimer...(not a and very not likely to be a commercial mill, strictly a hobby here) yes pallet forks make sense at the mill.  Except for handling logs in a pile especially curvy, lumpy, crotchety logs that are the norm to find in farm country.  Especially the firewood variety my tractor has a couple scars years ago to show from my pallet fork and pile booboo's. I had pallet forks long before I had a sawmill. My opinion is some sort of hydraulic grapple is safer. I am blessed to have more than one tractor and if I am milling the smaller one has the forks for boards and such  on and the bigger one wears the grapple and they are both reasonably close to the mill.

[mike dee]

I had a "HD" clamshell style root rake with a single lid. After 10+ years of repairs and frustrations I fabbed up a light weight bucket style twin lid grapple using AR400 steel and sold the clam-shell. I wish I did it sooner. I tried posting some pics but it says "Gallery is offline"

Pros of bucket style twin lid:
* easier, better, and more secure grab of odd shaped logs and rocks
* better at grabbing brush and roots
* better at grabbing bunches of logs
* stronger design than single lid
* get bigger and more secure picks

Cons:
* heavier design than single lid

My tips - don't buy ANY grapple made of mild steel. 1/4" AR400 will be lighter and stronger than 1/2" mild steel tines. Buy the lightest grapple you can. Make sure the structure is fully gusseted and fully welded. Make sure all pins are grease-able.  If you see quick pins ie. hair pins securing grapple pins don't walk -  run away!

My experience with the clam shell is it that it may have a bigger grab opening but can't hang on to anything very well. I couldn't hold onto 1 ton armour stones or odd shaped logs (i.e. large hard maple big branch knots) with the clam shell but have no problems with the twin lid bucket style.

The one point I disagree with OlJarhead is getting a heavier grapple means your limited lift capacity tractor will have less lifting capacity for what you want to move because you are moving dead weight.  If you want to lift a 100lb bag do you strap a 20lb dead weight on it first?

You want a STRONG built grapple not a HEAVY one. You get strength from better design and better materials. More isn't always more better.

[SawyerTed]

Been wanting a grapple for a while.  I'm getting  an education!

[terrifictimbersllc]

Y'all starting to spend my money, again.  : :

[rusticretreater]

The one point I disagree with OlJarhead is getting a heavier grapple means your limited lift capacity tractor will have less lifting capacity for what you want to move because you are moving dead weight.

I have a smaller tractor and struggle with larger logs.  I have found that the pistons on the grapple are stronger than the ones on my FEL.  So I sometimes turn the grapple all the way forward, grab a log and do the lift with the grapple pistons, like a weightlifter will do when bringing the barbell to shoulder height.  Another plus is that the weight stays low which is also desirable when moving the heavy stuff.

Still, you must stay within the structural limits of the FEL(which is different than lifting capacity).  I feel the grapple pistons mostly overcome the issue of grapple weight reducing carrying capacity.

Note: grapple pistons are actually the pistons on the end of the FEL that pivot the bucket or grapple. Not the ones that open and close the grapple itself.

[YellowHammer]

Rustic, I think you are describing the same thing I do with a max capacity grapple load. 

If you are carrying a max load with a grapple, and want to keep all four wheels of the tractor on the ground, pivot the grapple down and in as close as you can to the front axles, with the load just above the ground.  Basically a limp wrist position.  This means the load is even closer to the tractor then with the grapple in normal low horizontal ground position and if the tractor starts to tip, opening the jaws lets the load fall instantly and vertically, straight out of the jaws.  With a max load in a normal carrying position, you can't eject the load quickly.  You'll either have to pivot the jaws down and let the load roll out or drop the loader to the ground.  All that take precious half seconds, vs hit the button on the joystick and the load drops instantly. 

If the jaws can't hold the load in the upside down hanging straight down position, then the load is too big.  Carrying a max load like this put it even closer than the pin position so increases CG and loader capacity without needing to max out the curl hydraulics.   

[rusticretreater]

Yep. The curl to raise the log is to clear the ground when its uneven.  Otherwise, the carry is done as you described.

[NE Woodburner]

For milling, I can see the benefit of forks. I don't have a mill yet but I do have forks and a grapple. My grapple is a stump bucket grapple. It's not ideal for logs but it works pretty well. I have a lot of rocks and it does a good job popping out rocks and you can carry them to a wall or dump site. I needed wanted a grapple that could do both reasonably well without having to buy two grapples. I also use it to pick up heavy rounds to load on a trailer or load onto my wood splitter if they are too big to lift by hand.

One of the best features is being able to lift a log to cut to stove length at waist height. Saves your back, is much quicker and no risk of hitting the ground with your saw or having to roll the log to complete the cut.

[beenthere]

Right NE, but there is a risk of hitting the grapple with the saw chain teeth. Don't ask me how I know....   Worse than hitting the ground.  ;) :D

[newoodguy78]

Considering the cost of the clamshell vs the bucket grapple is something to consider as well.

You mentioned handling lumber, straight forks or the thumb option that gets completely out of the way will be the best for that. If the clamshell is cheaper maybe getting a set of forks as well would put you at the same cost as the bucket style?

Maybe I missed it but what size tractor are you getting? The bucket style hanging that far out and having that much more steel will cut down on your lift capacity.

FWIW my neighbor has a clamshell type on a newer JD 45ish hp tractor with the third function on the loader joystick and it is incredibly handy for handling firewood size logs and also for moving brush. After running several different styles having the grapple close tighter than you would think it needs to is a very nice feature especially when it comes to logs.

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all- thanks so much for many and thoughtful insights and replies.  It's truly helpful!
Several have asked about my tractor and what I'm getting.  I have had a 2020 kubota 3301 for last year+ (33hp). It's a remarkable little tractor for just being 33hp with unweighted tires.  I just about exclusively use my pallet forks on that tractor. 
I am buying as a replacement a TYM 474 which is 48 hp and getting tires weighted.  It will be a huge improvement moving logs around the mill and good for maintaining my pasture, roads, and woods.  I've got 13 acres of hilly pasture and balance in mixed woods and big hardwoods.  Some of my roads are a little narrow here and there so I think the 474 will provide the mobility I want with better lift capacity and power my wonderful little kubota doesn't offer due to its small size.

As I have thought about it I think I am going to get the bucket style grapple with 2 separate top pieces and 2 cylinders for now. I am quite sure I will continue to stack lumber from my hobby sawmill right off the mill onto the tractor before I sticker it.  I think if I get the clamshell I will be taking it on and off over and over.  So I think I will give the bucket style a shot here first as I can still stack some lumber on it and move logs. If I don't like it I can switch to a clamshell and then maybe just get one of the bolt on grapple attachments for my pallet forks as I could see that being an excellent addition! 
I'll report back after a while with the bucket style once I get some time on it. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to reply.

[NE Woodburner]

there is a risk of hitting the grapple with the saw chain teeth.

My stump bucket grapple is narrow, so not much risk for me. The downside of being narrow with logs is they are a little less stable due to the small clamping area. As I said earlier, it is definitely not ideal for logs, but it works for me and also works for the other tasks I use it for.

I know this may not be helpful to the OP but it seems that others are following for general information about grapples. Mine is the Titan extreme stump bucket with grapple. I think I paid about $1300 for it several years ago. Like everything, the price has gone up in recent years. On a skid steer this thing could really do some work. I try to take it easy so I don't tweek my loader arms on my tractor.

[OlJarhead]

The way it was explained to me was this:

If you FEL has a lift capacity of #3000 and your grapple weighs #900 than you can lift a #2100 log.
If your FEL has a lift capacity of #3000 and your grapple weights #300 then you can lift a #2700 log.

Seems legit.

[Old Greenhorn]

Weight is a consideration. Overloading a tractor (and it's front end) are easy to do. We have several rotating grapples around the mill and shop to choose from, one nice root grabble with a slit clamp, and a bunch of forks sets, so I get my choice. Most times it is the forks because well, Lumber. :D But when I put that root grapple on, the weight is noticeable and cuts down on what I can lift. For pulling logs high off the pile a rotating grapple is the best and safest choice. The forks are the only choice for lumber IMHO and work fine for queuing logs on the deck once pulled and bucked, then for taking away slabs at the end of the shift. My favorite use for the root grapple, besides what was already mentioned, is for harvesting mushroom logs in the woods because I can lay them in the grapple like a cradle and they don't slide out. If needed I can even close the clamps a bit, but I can't scratch up the bark.
I generally run these on a skid steer or most often a toolcat, which I find easier to work with. Everything has a bob-tach hookup, so changing is quick (if the ground is flat).

[SawyerTed]

So y'all have me shopping aka spending money....

I've run across grapples made not far from me.   Prices are good on 3/8" metal and a bit more expensive on 1/2".   

What I'm finding is the "jaw" opening on some is smaller than others.   26" is still a big log but could be limiting in brush moving operations.   

So the lesson I'm learning is the "jaw" opening is as important as cost and configuration.

[TimW]

 3/8" tines were too lite weight for my Mahindra 6520.  I sold that grapple at auction ASAP and got one with 1/2" tines.  It is tough.  I hit a root going too fast and it didn't bend, the loader spreader arm twisted.  Only reason I knew something happened was one quick latch popped up.

[TroyC]

Prices are good on 3/8" metal and a bit more expensive on 1/2".   

Many of the 3/8" side plates are on the lighter weight grapples that go in the neighborhood of 1500.00. You can bend them. It's true that the heavier the grapple the less you can lift. My understanding is that the medium grapples in the 72" range go for around 2500 and up, weigh about 700 lbs. If I need max lifting I use the lighter weight forks. For precision log loading I use the split clamshell on the manual mill. When rolling a heavy log off the forks onto the mill  one must be careful to prevent log from rolling off the mill or hitting the stops hard enough where you bump mill enough to need realignment. I prefer to load logs on loading dock and roll onto mill in a controlled manner. A large log loaded with the clamshell can be placed accurately and gently so not to disturb mill alignment.

Make sure your grapple has grease fittings with zerk protectors and is heavy enough to do the job for you. All will pick up logs and brush but the real test is when you try digging out a stump or big root.

[terrifictimbersllc]

This thread has me itching to go around grabbing things (with a tractor).

Tractor is 25HP Kubota L2050DT with Woods 1009 loader, lifting cap about 1100 pounds. 
It was my dad's tractor, and I like it. Diesel, 4WD, only 600 hr.
I have "pin on" Woods bucket and Woods forks.  Tired of "pinning on" and tired of not being able to grab things.

Slippery slope would be  as follows, didnt do it yet.  Maybe nuts.

$918 for ATI Quik-Tach mounts for my loader to be able to hook up to skid steer mount attachments.
$228 each for weld/bolt on mounts to convert my bucket and forks.   Wondering if I should just fab up these . Maybe buy one and copy it, or not.
$999 for WR Long 3rd function valve kit for my Woods 1009 loader.  Wondering why these are so expensive but I'm sure I'll find out.
$2425 for a 61" clamshell Virnig grapple 300 pounds with A400 tines. See PDF.  Could save 50 pounds and probably a few $$ if i get a 54" one.
$250 approx for delivery of above.

If patient could probably wait save on a used grapple somewhere. Doubt I would find a mounting adapter for my loader or the 3rd function valve kit used, so this would be about a $2K investment in a little old tractor.

Will this grapple hold a 500-600 pound log in the "limp wrist" position?
Are there other lighter stronger grapples to consider?

[AndyVT]

I have a Frostbite bypass grapple and I don't think it has been mentioned. To be honest it really is meant for log handling though it can move brush and the like if needed. They make a large version with a 40 inch spread and a lighter unit that I think is 29 inches. Weight is in the 300# range. 3/8 and 1/2 inch steel, greaseable zerks, with my M 6040 will lift and carry a 20 inch 16 foot white pine log, well under $2K.

[KenMac]

I haven't checked their prices lately but Everything Attachments makes excellent attachments and are worthy of your research on this. My EA root rake grapple has held up to tremendous abuse and only has suffered slightly bent tines from dragging trees with root balls attached. It only weighs 225 lbs. and has been my best attachment investment. I'm not affiliated with EA at all, but will speak about really good stuff when it might help someone.

[SawyerTed]

Everything Attachments implements are good quality, from American steel made in Conover NC.  That's just up the road and hour from me. 

[Ed]

I have the Bobcat industrial grapple. Independent clamps and its a solid bottom & back.
Tried a clamshell type, didn't like it. Always something poking thru the bars trying to poke you in the cab...
I welded teeth on the cutting edge so it can be used as a rake. Being solid it also can be used to move a little dirt to fill in holes when in the woods.

Ed

[davch00]

I build mine. It's roughly based off a TMG log grapple. When I was looking for one the prices and weight were big concerns for me.�
I managed to build mine for about $400 and about half the weight of the ones I looked at. It's plenty strong enough for my little tractor.�

[terrifictimbersllc]

Really like that, would love to do the same. If you're willing would be great to see some closeups.

Responding to earlier comments,
I looked at Everything Attachments, Wicked 55" root/rake grapple, 236 pounds (good), $2600 delivered to freight terminal.

Frostbite log grapple, I'd prefer, looks like davch00's above, 359 pounds (too heavy for me), $1999 plus freight.

I ordered the Wicked 55 but it is 6 months or more out, might cancel.  I'd rather have one with two independent closing lids but didnt see any that were light like the Wicked55.

[mike dee]

My old single lid grapple couldn't pick up this log, I'd have to use my forks. A thumb with my forks would be an excellent option for log handling.

[beenthere]

I think "The Thumb" from Greens Machine Shop is a good way to go if you just want to add to your forks or bucket. Under $900.

http://www.greens-machine.com/id47.html

[Magicman]

I also have the 36" that beenthere described above and am pleased.

[fluidpowerpro]

Might want to check out Halverson Wood Products. They make ones as a grapple only, plus with a chainsaw built on to cut firewood.

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all- just wanted to say thanks again for all the feedback on all things grapples.  I went with the "bucket style" grapple and thus far it seems it will be a great fit for me and how I use it around my mill and the property.  I got it about 7-10 days ago and thus far I really like it. 



As an aside, I saw today that it appears the company "Everything Attachments" went out of business just this week.  Kind of makes me glad I hadn't ordered a grapple from them! 



Thanks again!


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[terrifictimbersllc]

Tony, where did you see that Everything Attachments went out of business.?

[Tony Sawmill]

Tony, where did you see that Everything Attachments went out of business.?

I saw it on several Facebook tractor groups I am on. Also the EA Facebook page is "paused" though their website is still up right now. Also this video:
https://youtu.be/MZjNz9XN3vo?si=0X5C5ucG0DwCnqjh

[rusticretreater]

They are involved in a huge lawsuit with folks who built their new factory building.  There is a counter lawsuit.  The most recent report was they stopped all production except grapples because they are way behind on those orders.  I read they have stuff sitting outside that they have to pay guys to buff them to keep the rust at bay.  Plenty of stories on the lawsuit, nothing saying they are out of business.

[711ac]

I also have a Loftness twin lid flat bottom. I've been abusing it for close to 20 years on a 115 HP skid steer and a 95hp tractor. I've "tweaked" one of the lids a little, yes abusing it sneaking a big log out of the woods from the end pulling around a bumper tree with 1 lid grabbing the log. It's moved tons of rocks the size of your recliner chair!
It's nice for slabwood off the mill and delivering logs to or on the mill.
With the large opening you can crab a minivan size pile of brush or  multiple logs at once.
I've never had the other style but I can't see the single lid being great on much of anything but perfect logs with minimal taper. And only 1 at a time.
I don't use it for lumber, that's a job for my forks but it's also perfect for firewood making.

[OlJarhead]

Wow, that's crazy on EA!  I still want to get one of thier grapples some day as those are the big boys as far as I can tell!

[terrifictimbersllc]

I had ordered the wicked 55 grapple and a third valve function kit for my tractor from everything attachments. A couple days before Tony's message above -THANK YOU-I had called in at their request, to clarify some details about the valve kit and grapple hydraulic connections. For about a week the whole charge was on my credit card as pending. I was getting increasingly worried but then that charge disappeared and hasn't come back. Today I phoned in to two different numbers and no answer, and got a voicemail option to leave a message, but that mailbox was full. So I sent an email canceling my order and inviting them to call if they needed to discuss that.

If that charge appears again, I will immediately dispute it. Not sure what I'll do about a grapple yet, but now I have a chance to buy one twice so thats a plus.

The upside was that I have subscribed to the Hickory local online newspaper for one dollar for three months, so I could read an article about everything attachments, so now I am reading news from North Carolina which is actually quite interesting. Plus the national and regional news in that paper  are more interesting and tolerable to read than the crap that I could read here in my paper if I so subscribed. Isn't life interesting. 

[alecs]

Potentially silly question- I like the idea of the Thumb to add to my existing Artillian pallet forks on my JD 430 Loader.  But I only have the loader arms up and curl hydraulics so I would need a diverter valve and a bunch of new hoses and other hardware.  So I was also thinking about the post from davch00 and thinking of building my own.  In doing so, I was thinking it might be more straightforward to build something with an electric actuator instead of a separate hydraulic cylinder.  That would eliminate the need for the diverter valve and the extra hydraulic hoses and fittings.  I'd already have to do wiring to a switch for the diverter if I went that route, so I call the electric wiring a wash.  And I would be able to remove the thumb by just unplugging an electric connector instead of the hydraulics.

A quick search on ag-rated electric actuators yields some results from TiMotion - I'm sure there are others - but their MA3 series says it has maximum force of 16,000 Newtons or about 3,500 lbs, and is rated for washdown.  Haven't done the design yet to see if that would be sufficient.

Any thoughts on this approach?

[rusticretreater]

What you call a diverter valve is usually called a third-function valve.

As for your electric driven thumb, I think your main problem would be insuring you have enough amperage to run it, keep your battery charged and not burn out the alternator.   Activating the motor would require a robust switch/relay setup that will stand up to outdoor duty.  And of course, the fuses to protect the system.

Then there is the driveline hookup from the motor to the thumb itself.  You will likely need a chain and pulleys to multiply the torque of the electric motor. Another requirement is a way to keep that lubricated and protected from the elements.

Also, rain/snow/sleet might be an issue if you do work in that kind of weather.

[beenthere]

Potentially silly question- I like the idea of the Thumb to add to my existing Artillian pallet forks on my JD 430 Loader.  But I only have the loader arms up and curl hydraulics so I would need a diverter valve and a bunch of new hoses and other hardware.  So I was also thinking about the post from davch00 and thinking of building my own.  In doing so, I was thinking it might be more straightforward to build something with an electric actuator instead of a separate hydraulic cylinder.  That would eliminate the need for the diverter valve and the extra hydraulic hoses and fittings.  I'd already have to do wiring to a switch for the diverter if I went that route, so I call the electric wiring a wash.  And I would be able to remove the thumb by just unplugging an electric connector instead of the hydraulics.

A quick search on ag-rated electric actuators yields some results from TiMotion - I'm sure there are others - but their MA3 series says it has maximum force of 16,000 Newtons or about 3,500 lbs, and is rated for washdown.  Haven't done the design yet to see if that would be sufficient.

Any thoughts on this approach?

alecs
After getting The Thumb, I have considered doing just what you are thinking. Even though I have already plumbed in the hyd lines through the 430 loader frame to The Thumb hyd. cylinder. I was looking at the actuators listed on Surplus Center. Think I calculated that The Thumb would work adequately well holding brush and logs with enough force to do the job.
Now my 3rd function valve that I added is used to move the hyd. cylinder on my top arm, but have to switch lines over to The Thumb when it is mounted (most often on the forks). Have considered an electric diverter valve from Surplus Center but it would be a very tight fit, and haven't been brave enough to try to fabricate it in there. Would be convenient, but the linear actuators is an easier alternative (maybe)..

Like your approach, and look forward to the results if you follow through with it.

[alecs]

What you call a diverter valve is usually called a third-function valve.

As for your electric driven thumb, I think your main problem would be insuring you have enough amperage to run it, keep your battery charged and not burn out the alternator.  Activating the motor would require a robust switch/relay setup that will stand up to outdoor duty.  And of course, the fuses to protect the system.

Then there is the driveline hookup from the motor to the thumb itself.  You will likely need a chain and pulleys to multiply the torque of the electric motor. Another requirement is a way to keep that lubricated and protected from the elements.

Also, rain/snow/sleet might be an issue if you do work in that kind of weather.

I was thinking of an electric powered cylinder that would connect mechanically just like a hydraulic cylinder.  I looked at the specs on these and the amperage is proportional to the force that it is exerting, so the high amps (about 20) would only happen when you are really clamping down on something.  Otherwise, it's very low amps when you are only retracting or extending with no force.  The speed of the device is also proportional to force, so it would move quickly when you start and then slow down under a load.  Might be hard to feather the position.  I think the duty cycle is certainly low enough for the battery/alternator to handle it.  The unloaded amperage is similar to having the headlights on and the full load amperage wouldn't be that much different than the starter motor in terms of load.  The cylinder I looked at was IP rated for washdown/pressure washer so I think it would be rugged enough.  I just need to find out where to buy one (and how much $)

This was the first google result I found - not settled on this particular model, just something along these lines.

https://www.timotion.com/en/products/linear-actuators/ma3-series

[rusticretreater]

That's a pretty cool device.  I immediately was thinking again about the alternator and available amperage.  While it is only a periodic spike in amperage usage when activating the actuator, if the alternator is repeatedly pushed to an upper limit it will certainly burn out.

So, I would find out the ratings for the alternator.  Pay attention to output at certain rpms because you won't be running things wide open.  At those mid range rpms, turn on all the electrical devices and measure the amperage output of the alternator.

Add in the amperage required for the actuator(according to the chart it will be around 20 amps) and see if the alternator can supply that level of amperage.  Then subtract 10% from the alternators rated output and check that it is more than the required amperage.  If not, your alternator could be pushed to the limit and generate heat and probably burn out a diode or two if you do night work and use lights, etc.  At least you will know what is going on with the system.

This might be a bit much for some folks, but I like to figure these things out.

[beenthere]

I was looking at the 12v linear actuators at Surplus Center, in particular the ones with 8" stroke. 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/shop.axd/Search?keywords=linear+actuators&page_no=5&fq=1_category:1787

Did not think about the load on the alternator, but certainly would be a serious consideration. 

[alecs]

beenthere- I was looking at some similar actuators but found that a lot of them were designed for things like hospital beds, power recliners, and adjustable height desks.  I worried they wouldn't be rated to leave outdoors on the tractor.  There was one on the link you sent that was rated at 1000 lbs force and IP65 water resistant.  That might be the best bet. 

In designing the linkage, I want to optimize the relative lengths and positions of the actual thumb (on one side of a pivot) and the part where the actuator connects on the other.  if the distances were equal and opposite one another, 1000 lbs on the actuator would be 1000 lbs clamping force.  But if the grapple thumb is 5x longer than the arm that the actuator attaches to you'd only get 200 lbs clamping force.  Not sure what the required force would be.  For just holding a pile of brush it would be a lot less than if you were trying to set a log on a mill in the "limp wrist" position with the loader frame curled all the way down.

I'll keep looking into this and see.  Whether hydraulic or electric, I think the design of the thumb would be essentially the same.

[alecs]

rusticretreater- The way I was thinking about it, if the 20+ amp load of the actuator occurred for 5 seconds out of every cycle, even if you were grabbing a log and clamping the heck out of it every 5 minutes, that's only 1/60th of the time.  So your average amps would be 0.33, well within tolerance for the alternator.  Even every one minute, that would be only 1.67 amps.  So if the alternator didn't have 20A to spare, it would momentarily draw from the battery and then the battery would be replenished between cycles.  

Are you concerned that's not the right way to think about it?  I agree if the load were continuous you'd be in danger of frying the alternator, but seems like a brief peak load wouldn't be a major issue.  

[beenthere]

were trying to set a log on a mill in the "limp wrist" position with the loader frame curled all the way down.

First off, I would never think of using a grapple to "set a log" on a mill. Too many things can, and likely will, go wrong no matter how tight a grip one thinks they have on that log.

[beenthere]

Saw this in the "jokes" thread, thought it might help here in this grapple thread.

https://www.instagram.com/constructionvidz/reel/C3kZDAyAwN0/

[newoodguy78]

I've been doing some poking around for excavator attachments lately and stumbled upon a mechanical grapple made by Westendorf. 
After watching a couple videos they seem like they might be a budget friendly idea for what seems like a fair amount of people on here with the compact/smaller tractors without hydraulics looking to install a grapple. 
I have no firsthand experience with these whatsoever but not requiring a third function install keeps a fair amount of money in the purchaser's pocket. 

Fully hydraulic grapples are incredibly handy for sure and tough to be without once you've run one. That said seems like with a little seat time someone could get quite efficient with a mechanical one. 

[alecs]

The mechanical grapple looks pretty useful and the simplicity of no additional hydraulics or wiring is pretty cool.  Anyone have experience using one?

[OlJarhead]

I asked about the. on tractorbynet and decided against them myself.

[rusticretreater]

Interesting.  I notice how they label it a brush cutter, not a root rake grapple.  You don't have real control over the bottom teeth except at certain angles as the lower teeth dangle.   While much better than no grapple at all, it does look a bit clumsy at times.  Doing some accurate log picking from a pile would be a bit difficult IMO.

[Buickal]

I don't have a mill (yet) but I went with a grapple attachment for the front end loader on my Kubota 7040 and have a 3pt pallet fork attachment on the back for moving pallets (one pallet has a fuel tank on it, 2 pallets with 300 gallon water tanks, one pallet has a box on it for carrying miscellaneous stuff).  I've carried lumber on the forks to build hunting blinds.  Just used a ratchet strap to secure it.