Dead battery on the new LT50

[caveman]

If you turn the key off and your screen stays on it is usually the accessory solenoid stuck on. If you walk with you mill when you saw the solenoid is in the control box mounted to the floor of the box. It looks just like your hydraulic solenoid. If the key is off and the screen is on, the small terminal with the red wire should be dead and only one big terminal should be hot. If both big terminals are hot the solenoid is stuck on and will drain your battery.

Scenario here today: Went to start engine and nothing but a few led's lighting up.  Battery was drained to less than 7v.  After charging for a few hours it is up to 11.45v.  I suspected the solenoid that Sparks described above but the Accuset screen does not stay on with the key off.  On the battery side of the solenoid I get 11.45v.  ON the other side of the solenoid I measured 0.71v.  I anticipated either having the same voltage on both sides if the solenoid is bad and zero voltage if it is good, what would cause this?

We have not started the engine since last weekend so I assumed this is enough draw to smash a battery, especially in this hot weather.  When the key is turned on and off, the solenoid can be heard actuating.  

Have any of you dealt with this problem?  

[Magicman]

How old is the battery? 

[caveman]

The battery is three years old.  Last weekend it started the engine enthusiastically and without hesitation.  I was unable to jump start it with the tractor although it did sluggishly turn over.  The 6 amp charger is on it now and I will let it charge for a while, maybe overnight.  The hour meter stays on even with the key removed and all of the wires removed from the negative battery terminal.

Thank you for your guidance.

[Magicman]

A good properly charged battery should read 12.7 vdc.  I added this to my sawmill so that I always know:  Sawmill Voltmeter in Sawmills and Milling 
A couple of months ago I noticed that it was below the 12.7 and sure enough, yup, the battery was going.  Since I needed a battery quickly I bought the best deep cycle battery that NAPA has.

Three years is long enough, replace the battery.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Woodmizer is now putting the Deka group 31 AGM battery in the super mills.  I ordered one from them some months ago.  It cost more but I think it will pay off. I was using car quest and then NAPA batteries before each usually lasting about 2 years. 

The AGM battery is supposed to have a very low discharge rate standing unused but I still will put a tender on it in colder weather when the mill is idle more than a day or two. 

[Ianab]

I think the batteries in those WM mills take a bit of a hammering from the electric hydraulic pumps? So they get lot more discharge / charge cycles than the battery in a car or truck. Those only have a few seconds of serious load when you are starting, then it gradually gets recharged as you drive.  On the mill the battery gets loaded every few minutes as the hydraulics are used, then recharged in between. 2 things eventually kill a battery, age and use. In this case it's use. 

BTW, if a battery reads 12V it's "flat". If it's below that after some charging, it's an "ex-battery". 

Substitute "Battery" for "Parrot" in this clip. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciwwsvNcc

That battery wouldn't Voom if you put 4,000 volts up it  ;D

[caveman]

I went out to the mill about an hour ago, the voltmeter showed 12.8 v with the charger disconnected.  I turned the key and the Yanmar started.  I let it idle for a few minutes and turned it off before my neighbors decided to get out of bed and remind me that it was 6:30 a.m. on a Sunday.  The voltmeter showed 14.2 while the engine was idling so I am hopeful that the battery will continue to charge some.  The battery's ground wires were left disconnected last night so that if there is a parasitic draw it would not be draining the battery as I was trying to charge it.

I am hoping that John or I left the key in the accessory position last weekend and the battery has a chance but I suspect it will prove to be a DEAD as the parrot in Ian's post.  

The saw job today should not take too long, 10-12 cedar, all live edge 1" and 2" thick.

I appreciate all of the guidance, insight and suggestions regarding the battery and charging system.  

[Magicman]

the batteries in those WM mills take a bit of a hammering from the electric hydraulic pumps? So they get lot more discharge / charge cycles than the battery in a car or truck

True which is why an automotive battery is not used, Deep Cycle only.

[Ben Cut-wright]

The pdf. from which I took the quote below contains great battery selection and testing information.  Might be useful info for this thread. https://woodmizer.com/us/portals/0/docs/743d8322-c451-4676-8e08-89c0c8e77ef1.pdf

My comments are directed to "Sparks" in particular but other members may have interest or further knowledge as well.

Quote from above linked pdf. titled "Batteries and alternators-Wood-Mizer":  "The hydraulics on the sawmill run directly off the battery.  The alternator only comes into play after the hydraulics stop running. It replaces what you have taken out."

Is that quote accurate?  It has been my understanding that the alternator, the highest voltage source in the circuit, will be the *primary current provider to a load.  Perhaps the quoted statement does not strive to entail a complete description and appears brief and inaccurate to me because of the brevity.



 I have no idea why the font size changed from what I saw in preview.

[Dave Shepard]

My mill was delivered 4-8-08. In November of 2014 I replaced the battery with a WM spec Carquest/Deka battery, which is still in it. The battery was still performing ok, but I didn't want to risk a low voltage situation which could fry electronics. The WM spec battery is 1260 cca, whereas most group 31 batteries are less than 1000. The deep cycle marine battery in the edger, delivered the same day, decided not to cooperate for the 2019 sawing season. It hasn't run in almost a year anyway, so I don't know of if would have made it another year had it been run regularly or not. 

[caveman]

This afternoon I bought a new battery that looked identical to the original but with different stickers.  It has been installed.  The original battery will probably be good enough to start a Bronco or some other gasoline powered pile of plunder I have around for a while longer.

I would like to do the anywhere/everywhere hydraulics modification soon.  It would be much more convenient.