OldJarheads Milling Thread...

[Bandmill Bandit]

MM one upped you Bandit,he looks to have eliminated steps

upper I have one of them too, BUT you need really GOOD help to be able to keep your butt parked in the seat. When I am alone I find walking the woodmizer walk is more productive. BUT trust me I do love my seat when I have good help. I need to find a new seat too. Mine is a getting pretty worn and  weathered.

[Upper]

I understand Bandit,my next sawmill mod is help...............

[Bandmill Bandit]

I even have a 22 inch extension so I can still cut 20 foot logs with the seat on too.



 

On the good help topic;

I showed up on a good sized job on day last year for a lady that was building 4 cabins for her B&B expansion. As I was setting up these very buff and cute girls (early 20s) showed up in "too short" cutoffs and too "tiny halters" that left nothing to the imagination. They would have been more modest buck nakid! Heres the kicker! they had hard hats, good leather gloves, proper WCB certified boots. AND the halters were high vis Yellow.

I took one look at them and said "Girls, With all due respect and not to be rude BUT dressed like that you gona have saw dust in places that will make you very uncomfortable very soon! I recommend that you go get some cover alls but it is up to you. They chatted for a few seconds and said to me it cant be that bad can it? And I said well I end up with saw dust in my shirt and shorts every day. They said we will try it. Its too hot to wear coveralls and we need to work on our tans and proceeded to "grease" each other good.

I gave them the safety speal/tour of the mill/ site and instructions as to their responsibility.

First log was not too big and they caught on to the work real quick and they were good workers.
2nd log was a beast.  The second face opening slab was a nasty one and that had them asking for a short break to get some coveralls. And Ellie said  "and I need to change my panties too". I chuckled and said go for it and bring me a cold bottle of water when you come back.

About 10 minutes later they come back and Ellie has something in her right hand and a bottle of water in the other. She holds her right out to me, I open my hand and she dumps about a thimble full of saw dust in my hand and said thank you for the saw dust but no thanks! I really don't like it in my panties!

I threw it at her.

We got back to work and we had a lot of fun for the next week of sawing. Those 2 girls were very good workers. Turned out they were the owners daughters. Ellie is a very good bobcat operator and Denise can handle a chain saw with the best of them. Not bad with an axe either.

Every time I see Ellie she jokingly says she still feels the saw dust.         

[OlJarhead]

Saw that mod in the mod thread, pretty cool -- but why only enough to do 20 footers?  Or is it 20+ footers?

[Bandmill Bandit]

Saw that mod in the mod thread, pretty cool -- but why only enough to do 20 footers?  Or is it 20+ footers?

I basicly did the extension so I didn't have to mess with the copper strip and still be able to cut the same length as I could with out the seat.

Its pretty handy when I am in long timber with good help.

[OlJarhead]

A potential new customer called with 100 Doug Fir logs 10-15" dia that he wants milled up.  He was quoted 40c-50c per bf to mill but the other mill will bring a forklift to deck and move logs etc as well as offbearers.

Not sure I can compete with that though my hourly rate produces at 35c/bf or lower (depends on many factors I've learned but my latest 'big' job worked out to 35c even.  I'll admit, I'm interested and would love to see if I can get all 100 logs milled up in a week or less.  So far my best day was 15 logs but that's with lengths from 8 to 17 feet and widths from 10 to 24+ inches...if his are all in the 10-12 range like he says or even 12-15" then I can't see why I couldn't put out closer to 20 per day provided I've got good off-bearers.

I'll know this weekend as I've told him I'd come by on Sunday for a site visit (free though it's 150 miles from me) and I'm prepared to lower my hourly rate to my 'local' rate but figure I'd leave that out for negotiation if he wants to talk price a little more ;)  He'll put me up in a 'guest cabin' so no problem there.

Interesting times ;)

[OlJarhead]

Another option I'm considering is 35c/bf or my hourly rate, whichever is less.

I could just offer to mill at my hourly rate however without knowing how good the off-bearers will be it's hard to tell if I'm going to be able to mill at a decent clip all day (maybe Peter mills at 250+bf/hr alone?).  Normally when I am alone I struggle to mill at 200+/hr though I've seen some of your setups which might make that easier to do than I think.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Bid what you are comfortable you can make your required profit margin and still provide the quality product you are satisfied with. Don't worry about if someone else underbids you and gets the work. Just tell the guy you can't provide acceptable service for less than $___ and don't sweat it. Good luck.

[Brucer]

Another option I'm considering is 35c/bf or my hourly rate, whichever is less.

I use the same principle (higher BF rate, though). That way the customer knows the most he/she is going to pay, but also has an incentive to make things happen faster.

Most of the time the hourly rate gives them a bill that is 1/3 lower than the BF rate would be, and that's when I'm working without a helper.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Erik you are on the right track for price thinking BUT dont try to compete with other operators. I think you are doing very good work with very quality lumber.

Let him know that if he has real good help that will make a big difference on the invoice when the job is done.

I have only once got a job by being stupid enough to under bid a job from another operator AND a customer ( I learned by experience) no one wants to saw for.

NEVER again.

This customer has called me a few times since and the last time he called I told him he didn't have enough money to pay the rate I needed to charge to saw for him. Haven't heard  from him since.

At .35 cents a BF my rate works out to $105 IF the logs are good 16" average diameter at a 12 foot average length. Thats 300BF and hour with good help.

I don't budge for any one. IF every thing goes along real well I will give a 5 to 10% discount on final invoice. Customers like those kind of surprises.

Bid based on what you KNOW works for your operation!
 

[woodyone.john]

Another FF mantra,I never lost money on a job I didnt get.   Price on what works for you.

[crowhill]

Tho running TK B-20, this has been a most informative thread. Thanks professors!

[OlJarhead]

Hmmmm........no negotiating, just getting down to details ;)  Seems my hourly rate is just right after all and those 100 logs turned into 155 logs....going to need a week off the day job to get these buggers done and am going to have to really hump to make it happen!  I'll have 8 or 9 days to make it happen which will be the most logs per day on average I'll have done if I can do it.

Some of the logs are pretty small at 7" at the small end for 16 footers and 80 total are 10" or less....then 75 are 10-18" so who knows?  I'll go do a site visit and do some scaling but I think I can knock it out in a week of 8-10hr days.

Luckily I'll be staying onsite so it isn't like I'll have much to do other than mill ;)  I can even do some of the work alone if it looks like I need to get more done in a shorter timeframe.

[Peter Drouin]

In time you and the mill will be one. 

[Cazzhrdwd]

Love the seats. I've never used mine, but I think I'm going to start.

[OlJarhead]

In time you and the mill will be one. 

I hope so!  With all the darn milling I'm doing it's bound to happen.  I've taken off work next week so I can get this new job done and then start another big one a week after that!  8)

My boss might start getting po'd pretty soon though so I'll have to dial it back to weekends after the last job in June ;)

[Peter Drouin]

A lot of times, jobs coming in, will be in runs. One after the other, then none for a week or 3.

[OlJarhead]

That I believe!  Fortunately with this mill I don't have to turn them away ;)  Though any bigger than 100 logs or so and I might have to break them up because I have only so much vacation that I can take from my day job ;)

[OlJarhead]

The next job.  I was told about 100 logs of Doug Fir mostly in the 10-12" range at the small end.


Turns out 155 logs, 16 feet long, from 7 to 18" at the small end with 75 over 10 and 80 under ten.


Looks like a nice place to mill.  Now I just have to decide if I can really knock out 155 logs in 7 or 8 days.  I think I can with good off-bearing help but this will be the biggest job to day.

[plowboyswr]

 :P

[OlJarhead]

OK, as of now I'm not doing this one.  Customer sent me a note that his guy says he can do the work alone for 50c/bf (this is all Doug Fir) and complete the work for $3k-$4k.  I responded with a nice email detailing my costs and estimate based on an average of 10" SE DIA, 16 footers and 155 of them (10,075bf) and approximately 40hrs to complete (250bf/hr ave is what I suggest but I know it is very likely I'd do more like 300bf with good off-bearers) and two helpers at $10/hr each....I come in around 43c/bf :D

Then I told him the local guy could have the job and that I'd be happy to provide any further information he'd like but I'll pass.

Frankly, for 155 logs regardless of size I won't barter on the price as I know I'm cheaper and I know I can earn a decent profit on the work so if he wants to pay a little more :D  I'll let him and enjoy a week at home! ha!  8)

[Peter Drouin]

Sometimes all you can do for a customer is to say. OK,  :D :D :D

[Bandmill Bandit]

I wonder what the odds are you'll be in the there to tidy up a "nice mess"?

I have had that happen a couple of times. Its a big part of the reason I will NOT quote a BF price. I have people come back at me with "ok so that would be about XX per board foot"?

My answer is; "well that depends on the log quality, how well you organize the staging area, how well you have done with the log prep/sorting and how good your FEL and your help is, etc.

The response to That is often a "Hmm! Can you come look at my logs and give me some advice on how to do all that"? I always oblige and I am often not the first one on the site either. As a rule when I leave I have the job IF I want it AND IF I have a cash deposit in my pocket.

I don't mind cleaning up some one elses mess. The pay is quite a bit better!

[OlJarhead]

Bandit those are my thoughts exactly!

[OlJarhead]

Customer came back and said "he quoted me based on my cut list only" and I sent a nice reply stating that I quoted him based on all 155 logs not just the cut list but that I'd pass on the work and wished him the best.

Maybe the customer didn't communicate well, or maybe I didn't but I don't want to go out assuming he only wants the cut list only to find out he expects me to mill all 10,000bf of logs for the same price!  No thanks!

I've got plenty to do but this has been an interesting exercise.