WM CBN blade shapener and dual-tooth setter?

[Bibbyman]

Anyone got one of the new Wood-Mizer dual tooth setter?  Powered or manual?

http://www.woodmizerblades.com/maintenance/dualToothSetter.aspx

Some of you have the new CBN Sharpeners.  How are they working for you?

http://www.woodmizerblades.com/maintenance/sharpenerSetter.aspx

Every time we get the bill for ReSharp service, we evaluate going back to doing it ourselves.  I don't mind the sharpening fees, but the shipping on top of it is getting out of hand.

[Papa1stuff]

I have a CBN sharpener and a single tooth setter which works find for me.
I am still on a learning curve with the sharpener, It is nice that the stone sharpens the whole tooth, gullet at one time ,just have to make sure it is adjusted OK.
My blades that I have sharpened seem to cut OK

[ElectricAl]

Bib,

I have been sharpening our blade sense 1993.  Currently on our second sharpener and third setter.

Right after the 7* blades came out I called to get a cam so I could sharpen them correctly. WM did not have a cam available. The WM rep suggested I convert our current sharpener over to the profile grinding system.
The conversion was going to be almost as much as a new system. Plus the profile wheels were priced at $400 each.

We use 7* , 9* , 10* , 12*, 15* hook angles now.   I'd have to buy a special wheel for each profile.
I could just go to 7* , 10* , 13* and not be so picky.

We saw a lot of dirty logs and quite a few have metal. We'd go broke sending dull blades in.
The debarker only cleans most of the mud out of the bark.

We'll change blades every 300-400' when sawing grade. More often when sawing the junk the contractors bring in. I'll sharpen one blade while sawing with another. I don't reset the blades for every sharpening.
If a blade acts up it gets pulled and set off to the side to be fixed on the weekend.

Any idea what current pricing is on the new profile system?


ElectricAl

[Bibbyman]

Bib,


Any idea what current pricing is on the new profile system?


ElectricAl

From the WM Customer Gateway,   I can find the price of the CBN sharpener - $2095.00.  Would that include one wheel?  How about the oil?   They don't list the dual-tooth setter.

I'm sure we spend that much each year on ReSharp services.

We had the standard old model grinder and manual setter.  I found the whole blade sharpening process a drag.  Setting teeth was even worse.

We setteled on 9° blade until the 7° came out.  If I were to go to the CBN sharpener,  I'd start with the 7° wheel.   

Would there be any reason a person couldn't convert old 10° and 9° blades to 7° ?

[MartyParsons]

Plus the profile wheels were priced at $400 each.

The CBN wheels are $199.95 each. You would need one for each different hook angle. It is not included in the $ 2095.00
LTAGA-CBN grinder is $2095.00
You will also need some grinding oil. $75.00 for 5 gal 
I saw an advertisement from a company that they have the first oil cooled blade sharpner, but that is not true. Wood-Mizer has been using oil cooled for sometime.
The CBN grinder really takes the guess work out of sharpening your own blades. The old grinders ( Drag Grind) were ok but some owners were not successful doing it. Some of you were 8)   I have seen some real butcher jobs on blades with the old style. These grinders are still available for blade maintenance.
Wood-Mizer also has a dual tooth setter you can use manual or purchase a power feed option. Just remember to remove the grinding bur on one side of the blade before using the setter.
You can change your blade profile, BUT you will wear the CBN wheel at the point where you are removing the most metal. The CBN wheels fits like a puzzle in the profile it was designed for.

Dual Tooth setter $ 1495.00
Optional Power feed  $ 795.00
Set gauge ( required) $ 99.99

Marty

[ElectricAl]

We have 50 - 10*  , 12 - 9* , 3 - 7*  left that are new. Plenty of resharps at 7*
Problem is we are sawing frozen White Oak.  

We have been using the 10* on logs we thaw out,  then regrind to 7* .
Works alright, but it's not a real 7* .  A real 7* has a taller took and moves more product.

As much White Oak as you saw, a 7* wheel would be the hot set up.
Even the Cedar would saw nice with a 7*

Marty,

Thanks for the price in the CBN wheel.  I must have remembered the price of 2 wheels :-[

[MartyParsons]

I have not had much luck with the .045 1 1/4" 7 degree with a hp lower than 35. Last weekend in Ridgway PA we were sawing White Pine  Frozen with ice and snow packed on the side of the logs. I was very impressed with the 7. I was cutting all live edge White Pine 18' long, averaging 20 to 25" in diameter. We had a LT40HD 28 HP Kohler engine, I had to keep the saw head moving fast the 28 hp pulled very well.
I have a load of White Pine ordered in. I hope to get to try it out in logs that are not frozen.

Marty

[Bibbyman]

Thanks Marty,

Adding up all the prices,  I see why we keep going back to ReSharp.  (Besides I don't like to sharpen and set blades)?  :

[Ironwood]

If you are sawing ALOT, I think getting your own setup makes sense. The REAL drag is single sided tooth setting. It can be very time consuming. The new double sided tooth setting units out there will make self sharpening very attractive. IMHO

Ironwood

[P.A. RESHARP]

Good morning Bibbyman,  Dont know how many blades you have, or how many you have in rotation, But if you send 100 in at a time, you get free shipping back on all of them. Sounds like a lot of blades, but you would be surprised the people that do it that way. And it would save you probably around $ 100.00 on 7 boxes.

[Bibbyman]

Good morning Bibbyman,  Dont know how many blades you have, or how many you have in rotation, But if you send 100 in at a time, you get free shipping back on all of them. Sounds like a lot of blades, but you would be surprised the people that do it that way. And it would save you probably around $ 100.00 on 7 boxes.

I did not know that!

We just sent in and got back two boxes of 15 blades each.  The back shipping charge was $32.24. So that would help a bit more than $1/blade.

We also make a point of hauling all the blades we have that need sharpening to any open house we attend.  If there at the MO. service center, we drop them off the afternoon before and they've been real good about getting them back to us after the show the next day.  Saves enough to pay for the gas to go to the show.














 

[P.A. RESHARP]

My next question was going to be, do you send them in flat packs or cubes. If you hasd 2 boxes of 15 must have been flats. I was going to say you can get 15 in a flatpack, compared to 10 in a cube, for basicly the same shipping cost.

[Bibbyman]

My next question was going to be, do you send them in flat packs or cubes. If you hasd 2 boxes of 15 must have been flats. I was going to say you can get 15 in a flatpack, compared to 10 in a cube, for basicly the same shipping cost.

These were in two TALL cubes.  I have sent them to Mo ReSharp in flat packs only to have them ship them back in TALL cubes - and charge me for the box and inserts.  (One time in two short cubes with a few blades in each.)

The last year or so I've wrote in big bold letters inside the flat pack top a note asking them to return them in the flat pack.  They have.  The flat pack will last a couple of trips and then gets too damaged.  Eventually I'll get them back in a cube and pay the price of the box and inserts.  We'd rather use the flat packs – they take up far less room.

[Brucer]

I was interested in the WM dual tooth setter, but ....

I talked to someone who has been using one and his one complaint was that the dial indicator is separate. You have to set a couple of teeth, measure (one tooth at a time), adjust, measure, etc. Then when you've got it right, you just run the blade through. Apparently you have to change the adjustments if a blade has had a lot more or fewer sharpenings then the blade you've set the machine up for.

I'd want a hands-on demo with my own well-used blades before committing to one.

[Old Hilly]

Bibbyman, you might like to have a look at the "Dinasaw" range of machines. They are not cheap but some of the Australian millers talk rather highly of them.
have a look at   www.dinasaw.com.au  or contact them at....   info@dinasaw.com.au
I am told that they export to the US and the US$ is still worth more than the Aussie$. You might even get away without paying our 10% GST! ???
Cheers mate.
8)

[Bibbyman]

Bibbyman, you might like to have a look at the "Dinasaw" range of machines. They are not cheap but some of the Australian millers talk rather highly of them.
have a look at   www.dinasaw.com.au  or contact them at....   info@dinasaw.com.au
I am told that they export to the US and the US$ is still worth more than the Aussie$. You might even get away without paying our 10% GST! ???
Cheers mate.
8)

Thanks,  I see that Baileys carries the Dinasaw sharpener and setter.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=65680&catID=

The prices are only a bit lower than the WM CBN.

WM still offers the old style grinder and setter but I've been there and done that.  Used ones are available from time to time.  I think there is one for sale here on the Forur at this time.

[Kansas]

Check out Cooks saw. They make a really good profile grinder and dual tooth setter. Takes 3-4 minutes to set a blade. Then we put a blade on the sharpener get it going on slow, and go back to sawing. Its set up very near the saw, so we can watch it when it gets back around to where we started. We usually take a box of blades and use all of the blades out of that box. At that point we may get one sharpening without setting. We go through that batch of blades again. By staying with one batch of blades, it makes setting much easier, because when you have the setter correct for one, it will be correct (mostly) for the whole batch. The grinder is pretty well set correct for each one too. I doubt we have 5 minutes of actual labor per blade-not counting the time where the grinder is doing its own thing.
We hit a fair amount of mud on a lot of logs. Cut a lot of cottonwood and bur oak, which dulls the blades pretty fast. I would guess we do about 4 blades a day minimum for each mill, plus the resaw. Biggest problem is jumping back and forth from the 1 1/2  and 2 inch bands. That probably takes 15 minutes to do. Less often, we set up and do the resaw blades. We can also vary hook angle when the logs keep freezing and thawing out.

[Bibbyman]

I looked at the Cooks sharpener and dual toot setters on their web site.  They're on sale now.  But still the price is not that much below the WM equipment and it does not mention the CBN full tooth profile grinding.

[GF]

I have a Cooks dual tooth setter and am very happy with it.  I use 18' blades and I can set the entire blade in less than 5 minutes easily.  I used to have a single tooth Woodmizer setter, and it seemed to take forever to set a blade one tooth at a time it worked but just seemed way to slow for me.

Gary

[Kansas]

Bibby, it doesn't use the CBN wheel. It uses a grindstone and follows the profile. For us, the advantage is we can vary tooth degree with the same cam. If you only used one tooth angle and one profile and tooth spacing then the CBN wheel wouldn't be an issue.  You need a different cam if you go with different tooth spacing, or different profile, although you can vary that somewhat with the same cam by how you shape your grindstone. We have half a dozen cams hanging on the wall we have accumulated over the years for different tooth spacing and profile. I can't remember what they cost, but it seems to me around 40 or 50 dollars. We mostly use two now, one for the sawmill blades, and one for the resaw blades.

[woodmills1]

I still set and sharpen on the old style equipment I got back in 93 (with upgrades)
I don't cut anywhere near what you do but love the fact I have never paid to sharpen or ship, and can have a sharp one in hand 5 minutes after needing one. 
Sharpening is a little tedious, but setting is just plane a drag.................would rather shovel sawdust with a spoon. :D

[Bibbyman]

 
Sharpening is a little tedious, but setting is just plane a drag.................would rather shovel sawdust with a spoon. :D

Yea,  that's how I feel about sharpening and setting.  I thought it would be something Mary and I could do together – I'd sharpen and she'd set.   But Mary never got involved in the process – except the setting.  But she set in the living room reading a book!  :P

A question for you guys that have sharpeners set up near enough to the mill so you can saw and sharpen at the same time.

How does this work with all the fine sawdust that is bound to settle around in the sawshed?  How can you do this in the winter time unless you have a heated shed? (as I figure you're using water for coolant). 

Where to set this thing up and run it is another thing to figure out.  I don't see anywhere in the sawshed I can give up this much floor space.  It's not heated and dust tends to get into everything.

My folks up the road have a pretty much empty basement.  It would have plenty of heat in the winter and would be cool in the summer but the humidity is normally high.  I'd have to keep things oiled up to keep them from rusting.

[Cypress Man]

  Bibby, I used the old type drag grinder from WM for years and hated it.  Bought the new CBN grinder and sharpening blades has never been easier.  Its truly a no brainer; get the CBN grinder.  I have already sharpened boxes and boxes of blades and set up is a breeze.  When I dull a blade it goes directly on the sharpener while I continue sawing logs.  In just a few minutes its finished, and is used when the next blade gets dull.  I never have more than one blade dull any given time.  No more sharpening blades on Saturday or at the end of the day.  This cbn grinder requires very little attention.  I only use 11/4" x 055 x 10 degree so I cant say how difficult it would be to change to different blades.  But its definately worth the money compared to the old style grinder.                   
                                                                                                                      Cypressman

[Bibbyman]

Thanks!  That's the kind of input I'm looking for. 

Say..  where do you have it set up?  Inside a building? If it's near the mill,  how do you keep dust out of the oil?

What about setting blades?  Do you have the dual-tooth setter?  Power or manual?

Oh yea,  How much oil does it go through?  Is the oil someting I could get local so I don't have to pay for the shipping?

[Cypress Man]

It's set up right next to the sawmill.  A little sawdust sticks to the oily surfaces of it but not enough to cause problems. I live in the central part of Louisiana so our winter temps are not severe. When its cold it takes a little longer to get the oil circulating.  I had a single tooth setter with my old sharpener but gave it to the guy that bought the sharpener(hated it also)  I dont set the teeth on the 055's.  Dont see any difference if I do or not.  I only get 2-3 sharpenings out of each blade from running a thick blade on an LT40 bandwheel so I guess I never really cut the set out of the blade.  I've tried using 045's on the LT40 Super Electric but the 055's way out perform them.  Im still on my first container of oil so it doesnt really use that much.  Dont know about using other types of oil.  Was always worried about clogging up the stone if it wasnt the right kind of oil.   Hope this helps.