Hydraulic hose

chevytaHOE5674 · August 22, 2021, 01:15:54 AM

I could never get the spiral wrap to last but a few days come winter. At -20 that stuff broke anytime it touched something. Over time the hoses in the large spiral wrap rub each other and wear (even when you think they can't move) heck I wore thru a few 1.25" super swivels that were inside the wrap.

Start felling with the head and reaching thru vines, brush, tops, snow, etc and see how long the hoses last...

Firewoodjoe · August 22, 2021, 09:34:08 AM

If the spiral wrap is moving on a hose it's the wrong size wrap. And yes there going to wear but do you just let them wear until they blow. Visually inspect it when it's greased and fix the wrap.

Tacotodd · August 22, 2021, 09:44:43 AM

Just make sure that the wrap seems to tight to go on, then it "shouldn't" move and cause issues. That does take a LOT of persistence to get them on like that, but I'd think that the payoffs would more than offset the time involved (but what do I know, I'm just theorizing).

Firewoodjoe · August 22, 2021, 09:55:49 AM

And to be clear the yellow wrap is not protecting individual hoses. It just holds the mass of hoses together as one. The hoses in side are wrapped at the bend. Each hose has its own tight wrap.

Firewoodjoe · August 22, 2021, 10:09:30 AM

There's over 40 foot of wrap on the head area right now and I ordered another spool to finish it.

Corley5 · August 22, 2021, 10:28:14 AM

They're hose monsters. It's not the covering wearing so much as metal fatigue to the braid from all the flexing. They'll blow inside the fabric and the rubber on the hose is is fine.

Al_Smith · August 22, 2021, 11:00:08 AM

I don't have the need like a lot of you nor do I own anything that uses high pressure above 3000 PSI .The last work I did was about 3 years ago when I resurrected my old Oliver OC-6 bull dozer, circa 1953 and replaced nearly every hose on it .Those came from either Farm and Fleet or Surplus Center Hydraulics relatively inexpensive .Those would get here about 3 days after I ordered them .Plus they sold adaptors for about any size and style ever made .
I do however have a large Greenlee pipe bender ,model 785 that is 10,000 PSI but it sits inside so the hoses might last forever . Greenlee unlike many manufacturers of log splitters don't lie about the capacity .If it says 80 tons that's what it is .

trimguy · August 22, 2021, 01:22:28 PM

I only have an occasional need for a hose for an old backhoe, so I buy as needed. They always say don't reuse the fittings. I understand you can't reuse the crimp sleeve but why not the fitting ?

Al_Smith · August 22, 2021, 01:36:35 PM

Since you mentioned it before I found Surplus Center Hydraulics from this forum actually I used another on line supply house .Those people were more concerned about selling warranties on of all things like fittings that seldom fail if ever .I fired them for stupidity plus they were direct shippers and lied about what they had in stock . Then you got it three weeks after you ordered it .
In my case because I'm a hoarder I have buckets full of fittings and assorted hoses all from scrap passes at work .More times than not it's easier for me to just order new than try to figure out in all that junk where to find them .My organizational skills are not real good .

chevytaHOE5674 · August 22, 2021, 06:57:19 PM

As tight as you think that spiral is it will move. As the hoses twist and turn and get junk wedged in them the spiral gets moved. Get a little nick in the rubber so there is exposed steel, the steel braids get rusty and with enough flexing the hose goes boom.

barbender · August 22, 2021, 07:17:56 PM

Whenever I hear someone arguing with guys that have been there and done that, I know there is some learning about to commence😊

Firewoodjoe · August 22, 2021, 07:56:49 PM

Quote from: barbender on August 22, 2021, 07:17:56 PM
Whenever I hear someone arguing with guys that have been there and done that, I know there is some learning about to commence😊

😴

Corley5 · August 22, 2021, 09:08:42 PM

Just re-inventing the wheel :D :D :D At some point you ask yourself if you're cutting wood or saving hydraulic hoses and you cut wood.

Al_Smith · August 23, 2021, 08:03:57 AM

Spiral wrap I think works to a point but the hoses still manage to tangle up .You might be better off to just bundle them up using heavy duty zip ties .
It all depends on what the system is used for .Something like long "cat track " on a large machine tool could be under a lot of flexing but normally something like a log splitter would not be .
Cranes,line trucks ,some back hoes require a lot of hose changing .Bull dozers normally go a long time before a hose fails and usually that's because decades out in the hot sun has caused the rubber to go bad .It cracks off exposing the wire then it's only a matter of time .I'll say this if you own old machinery eventually ,sooner or later you will have to work on the hydraulics .

nativewolf · August 23, 2021, 08:24:37 AM

I think you've done a great job of armoring it as well as you possibly can. That's about all you can do. Enjoy the machine and the risk reduction that goes with it, when you get a hose break just remind yourself it wasn't your foot, or your hand, or a widow maker and be comfortable with that knowledge and let it take the edge of being PO'd at having to replace the hose that you just changed last week.

I think you've done a more than fine job with it. Cut some wood!

chevytaHOE5674 · August 23, 2021, 08:48:49 AM

Yep hoses are just the name of the game on a processor (fabtek more so that others). Sometimes you will go a few months without wrecking a hose, sometimes you will kill 3 in a day. Just the way it goes.

Keep spares for all the common ones on hand so the downtime is minimal. Remember to get replacements made when you use your spares. Stock up on various adaptors so that you can splice 2 short hoses together, or put a 3/4" hose in place of a 1/2" to get you thru the day, etc.

mike_belben · August 23, 2021, 10:13:31 AM

me personally, i would weld a bracket for bulkhead fittings on any of these machines that have a stupid long hose thats always blowing at the same spot near the end. terminate them at a bulkhead or union bracket welded to the stick or boom and then put in a short flex joint.. junkgineer it so that all the commonly exploding flex hoses are one or two lengths, say 4 or 5 foot. then you only need to keep one or two spares that are multi-positional. i have no qualms at all about shortening a long hose with a hole at its end and unioning them back together.

it would also not both me a bit to be replacing straight hose segments with hardpipe or devising C-channel armor covers that bolt onto brackets welded to the stick. we have covers over track frames and thank god for that, why not stick plumbing?

i consider it rude of the manufacturers to worry about whats good for them more than whats good for the customer when they build a machine. theyre priced for a profit no matter if they build good or bad. why not build stuff that is good to maintain as a rule #1? the market will pay you back in generations of loyalty. be longsighted about this. i wouldnt know a fabtek if it bit me on the nose but i know if anyone asks me i will parrot what i read here.. dont buy a fabtek the hose layout will cost you. thats what it looks like when the market punishes the manufacturer for shortsightedness, making it good enough to sell today and leaving the owner to figure out a reconfiguration later to make up for their design shortcomings.

Al_Smith · August 23, 2021, 01:19:35 PM

I have a library of tech books,theory etc covering many subjects .The ones I have on hydraulics are Parker-Hannifin and Vickers to name a few .They cover the whys and where-fors on many design criteria .Plus we all obviously have the internet else this conversation would not be happening .Info is out there you just have to find it .

Plankton · August 23, 2021, 07:36:16 PM

This particular head might be worse then others I don't know. I do know that harvesters are just hose consumers. Nature of the beast out of the buncher and the forwarder and harvester our harvester is consistently blowing hoses.
Whereas buncher and forwarder are like 2 or 3 a year. That's on a logmax head. Lots of flexing they hang out there to get snagged and rip fittings off and you can over rotate easily etc.

barbender · August 24, 2021, 01:02:32 AM

All harvesters are tough on hoses. The Fabtek seems to be especially hose hungry, because all functions have seperate hoses running to the head from the base machine. Most harvesters have a pair of large hydraulic hoses that go to the head, and then solenoid valves from that divert the oil to functions.

Skeans1 · August 24, 2021, 07:11:18 AM

@barbender
You have to remember these heads were invented well before the valve banks were put out on the heads, even the old European dangle heads had a line running down for each function.

mike_belben · August 24, 2021, 08:48:58 AM

For the cost of replacing all the boom length hoses on a full hydrauluc processor head, i bet one can buy off the shelf DC solenoid banks and a pair of DC joysticks ..if theres room to weld a safe space on the back of the head's chassis.

Modulation control might be poor since theyll be on/off switch. Are the carriers using open center or compensating closed center systems to power the fabtek head?

Corley5 · August 24, 2021, 09:27:19 AM

Four Rollers are old school and the technology has come a long way. You can see the lineage in the new JP Skidmore 2 Rollers. And how they've attempted to get around the hose monster issue. There's still a bunch of Four Rollers out there putting wood on the ground and they are supported by JP Skidmore.
I got around the hose issue the best I could by making the areas they wear and break short with male JIC on both ends. Cheaper than female fittings

That included all the hoses from 1/2" 2-wire to the 3/4" four wire. Much easier and less time consuming to replace that short piece and cheaper

Having a hose machine I could make them myself from the existing hoses. Most hydraulic shops won't work on old hose due to liability. Having them all wrapped up in spirals and fabric sleeves etc. might have some merit. But you lose a bunch of time when replacing hoses that blow INSIDE all that protection. Getting a blown hose out of all that armor that is now soaked in oil and then getting the new one armored back up... Add in weather like 10 degrees and oil soaked gloves. Rainy with mosquitoes and black flies. Or 90 degrees with deer flies. Slapping bugs with oil covered hands isn't pleasant. And the added longevity of the hoses because of all that guarding to me wasn't worth it. It's all about production and changing an unguarded hose in 15 minutes and getting back to cutting vs. much longer for a guarded hose and the lost production. There's a reason so many Four Rollers have the hoses hanging free.