Interesting Article about mill closures in Montanna.

[peakbagger]

Finally some truth from the timber industry • Daily Montanan

I think we are going to be seeing this more often where lack of cheap labor is going to close down wood products mills?. I wonder if the lack of labor is tied to the booming vacation home/ski industry in Montana. I know its a big state and the vacation home industry is probably only in certain areas so maybe a local can comment.   I was talking to someone the other day who is long term hard core fly fisherman who has been visiting Montana for 30 years to visit friends and to get in some fishing and he said it is amazing how costs for land and homes have just gone up exponentially. My guess is what local labor that is available and can somehow find a place to stay, work construction and support the vacation homes and then work the ski industry in winter? 

[quilbilly]

Mills usually aren't cheap labor out west. Can't speak specifically to MT but in WA and even ID most mill jobs are union and good jobs for blue collar folks. They are also much closer to year round. Ski jobs are very hierarchical with pay and don't pay much for a long time until you hit near the top. 

One problem with MT is all the timber is near all the ski towns in western MT. So there is a tight labor market with all 3 industries competing for blue collar people who can't afford to live in the area. 

Eastern MT is much cheaper 

[BAN]

Was in Livingston Mt over a year ago and was told that the mill had to raise its pay to match what the fast food restaurants were paying. Not many mills left in the state. The Idaho Forest Group mill in St Regis closed last summer as well.

[barbender]

 That's a heavily biased article. To the point though, no, these older mills that relied heavily on cheaper labor instead of upgrading mill technologies probably aren't going to make it in today's market. 

 The whole mountain west is becoming full of people that moved there, after making money somewhere else. 

[timbco68]

My brother lives 8 miles from Kalispell and when I go out to see him it's sad to see that area change so much. A year ago , I was there and he said that the Flathead Valley had grown by 40% in the previous 16 months. The west I knew as a kid is dead and the internet killed it.

[barbender]

 My wife and I spent our honeymoon out in that area 25 years ago. My only experience with the West at that point was where all my family on my Mom's side is- around Buffalo, WY. Buffalo was a lot quieter place back then, and I was kinda shocked (disappointed really) at the difference in northwest Montana. Just a lot more people and money around Flathead Lake. 

 I was also surprised at all of the sawmill operations in the area. I hadn't realized that it was a different world when you got over the continental divide, with the increased moisture and bigger timber compared to most of the arid mountain west. There is a term for the whole region which escapes me at the moment, grouping Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Northwest Montana into a distinct geographical area.

[barbender]

Cascadia is what it is called. It comes from the environmentalist movement, which I am not trying to point anyone towards😑 But it does recognize the similarities in those places. The area around Kalispell is more similar to places in Washington than it is to around Billings.

[esteadle]

lack of cheap labor is going to close down wood products mills?.

I read thru that.
 
their statement cited "labor shortages, lack of housing, unprecedented rising costs, plummeting lumber prices, and the cost of living in western Montana have crippled Pyramid's ability to operate."

So it's a lot of things, and not "cheap labor" that they are lacking, it's labor in general. Rising labor costs might figure into that, but costs of everything have been rising too, as stated. Machinery, fuel, blades, chains, etc. Everything is subject to inflation, wages, sure, but tools, and supplies and other costs too, which is the real problem. I have a separate rant about Inflation that is not going to be posted here though.

Cost of Living is inflation related. Not sure what that has to do with sawing lumber. But I'll point out that you can build housing with lumber.

Hate to point out the obvious, but cheap labor is something we used to import in the form of immigrants. Now, we do everything we can to keep immigrants from immigrating. Cheap labor powers a lot of capitalism. You'd think capitalists would know that.

[peakbagger]

The poultry and pork industry has figured that out but in their case the availability of cheap housing is much higher than a resort area. 

[Ianab]

Cost of housing must have an affect on labour availability. We see that here in NZ with a place called Queenstown. It's up in the Mts in the South Island, and basically "Tourist Central". Rent and house prices are crazy, and businesses have a hard time attracting staff because of that. Even for relatively well paying jobs like teachers / carpenters / nurses etc. Would you move to take a new job that paid the same, but your rent or mortgage was going to double?  Many people move OUT of that sort of area to places that are simply cheaper to live. And you certainly wouldn't set up a labour intensive manufacturing operation there, and if you had one, you would question the economics of keeping it running.

[quilbilly]

Cascadia is what it is called. It comes from the environmentalist movement, which I am not trying to point anyone towards😑 But it does recognize the similarities in those places. The area around Kalispell is more similar to places in Washington than it is to around Billings.

When talking about timber and weather I've always heard pacific slope. 

[twar]

In 1980, when I moved from the East coast to Missoula to attend the U of Montana, I thought life there was less expensive. Stuff (in the eyes of a college student) was cheaper. Firewood, hunting, fishing, camping, beer, even Christmas trees were readily available, cheap or even free. And there was no sales tax. 

I was able to pick up Friday-night shifts at the Champion Intl. plywood plant, and we were not cheap labor. The union wage beat the stuffings out of what I made summers in the textile factory in NC. But it was hard work; the veneer drier stopped for no man.

Missoula was still a bit more expensive than many other Montana towns, likely because of the stable University, Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife Service, BLM...wages. (And then there were the smokejumpers--they made money! At 19, I saw of course just the dollar signs, not the risks.) Towns throughout the NW were cheaper; Kalispell was a fun town to drink beer after fishing, but otherwise not particularly hip. Bozeman had a more cowboy vibe than Missoula and was smaller and cheaper. Elsewhere in the region, Boise, Bend, Twin Falls...were unaware of the growth they would experience the next 20-40 years. None of these places are the same now. Missoula was Montana's 4th largest city when I was there. It's population has now more than double and today it's 2nd.

Interesting side note. I was for the most part readily accepted by the locals. I was from North Carolina, the South, a country boy, By comparison, my friends from NY were Northerners, i.e. city folks. It did not seem to make much diffference that I was from a city bigger than any in Montana, and my NY friends could be from Garnet Lake, NY; they were from the city and I was from the country.

In my mind, Missoula is still in the early 80's...hard to go back.