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Author Topic: Re-building the Barn  (Read 670 times)

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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re-building the Barn
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:54:52 PM »
My parents "barn" needs to be re-built.  Its not much of a barn anymore since the old barn style roof was damaged by a tornado in 2003.  The roof was torn off and replaced with modern trusses with a room in the roof.  We never built the room and just laid some lumber up there.  The walls are probably 80 years old and starting to fail.  The posts were just cedar logs buried and the rest was built with scraps of wood.  We are talking about taking the roof apart to use again and then tear down the rest.  We will relocate the barn to a better location on an actual foundation.  I want to mill timbers to use as posts and make it sort of post frame.  I  built my garage this way with 6x6 pine that I bought.  Well, now I have a mill and can mill my own.  I will probably just cut for 8' walls.  I will have to get a building permit for this, so I will have to come up with drawings which I may be able to do myself.  Might have to get some stronger glasses though, lol.  I want to make it look neat, so I will try to incorporate some barn elements instead of just a building.  This will likely become my wood shop at some point.  I think I will need a minimum of 28 timbers if I space them 8' apart and use the same 6x6 for top plates or whatever they are called in a timber frame.  Just guessing, I think the barn is about 24x32.  I'm open to all comments and ideas.  Thanks.
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Online Don P

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2021, 09:45:55 PM »
Sounds like quite a project, might need to start looking at used telehandlers  ;D.
The first thing that popped out was your 6x6 pine plate.
It is supporting the trusses which include a floor, I'm going to guess 14' wide and a roof load 24' wide. The plates are clear spanning 7.5'. Looks like your snow load is 20psf.

The floor area supported by the plate is 14' x 7.5'=105 sf. Design load is 40psf live load+ 10psf dead load. 105 sf x 50psf=5250 lbs

The roof area is 24' x 7.5'=180sf x (20LL + 10DL)=5400 lbs

Half of that is bearing on the plate on each side so add em up and divide by 2=5325 lbs supported on each plate.

Go here;
Design for Bending (forestryforum.com)
(dead load is 1425 lbs)
I'm coming up with some really sweet 6x8's
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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2021, 07:11:57 AM »
Good point about the top plates supporting the weight of the room, plus the contents of said room.  I would be studding up in between the posts eventually.  This is gonna have to be a work in progress.  I'm sure that I would finish the walls before I ever worked on the room in the roof.  I think that would take care of the span issue, since the top plate would not be clear spanning the distance.  On my garage that I built this way, I put corner braces in on both sides of every post and then studded up in between those.  What would be the best joinery for connecting ends of each piece of top place and then connecting those to the top of posts.  Also, I think this was mentioned in another post a while back, but I can't remember, how should the post be connected to the foundation, a regular post anchor for a deck post?
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2021, 07:39:55 AM »
this would make it hard if not impossible to move, but I took an old building and lifted it 2 feet each side at a time.  I used a skid loader lifting a few inches at a time along the length of the roof and repeat.  you could support the roof with posts and pour footing and place a wall a section at time.  if you pinned down some lumber in the floor of the room, you could prob. lift the roof of in total,  I would not have a guess at the weight, and would be an expensive crane job.  prob. need the shingles off.  mine done in the 90s was a ranch home 28 x 48.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2021, 09:04:19 AM »
The telehandler would really be a help.  I might look into renting one for a day.
Doc, if we don't relocate the building, I'm not really interested in rebuilding it.  Dad totally doesn't need it for anything.  If it was in a good location, I would definitely be interested in what you describe.
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 09:10:23 AM »
can you transport the roof intact on a trailer?  are these adjoining properties?
How many firefighters under your command?  remember the Amish moving a barn. :)
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2021, 10:30:41 AM »
It sounds like the only thing worthwhile is the trusses. I've plucked apart a truss roof with the Lull and a man in a 10' workbasket in a day. I'd have the new building up to that level, rent for a week and use it for demo and resetting the trusses on the new barn.

I assume a treated sill of some sort. That is bolted to the foundation then the posts and studs connect to the sill. That can be initial toe nailing to locate the posts and studs and then the real connection is the sheathing tieing it all together, or it can be steel anchors or strapping, hidden knife plates, basically hooking it all together to resist load in all directions. I'd install the studs before setting the trusses, those things probably weigh enough to deflect the 6x6 plates.
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2021, 10:51:55 AM »
That's a great plan Don.  The metal roofing is worth quite a bit too.  Its heavy gauge and looks new.  That will be easy to unscrew and take down.  I looked up rental for a lull.  It is like 500 for a day and 1200 for a week, but it will have to be delivered and I assume that will not be cheap.  I could do just as you say and get the timbers up and then dismantle the roof and use the lull to put the trusses back up.

I built my garage similar to the way you describe.  I built the wall with a treated 2x6 screwed to the bottom of the 6x6 pine and then bolted the 2x6 to the foundation.  On my garage the timbers are visible inside and out, but on the barn I will cover them on the outside, so I could infact use plywood. 
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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2021, 06:06:33 PM »
Here is how my garage is built.  The only joinery is lag bolts.


 

 
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2021, 01:34:14 AM »
I looked up rental for a lull. It is like 500 for a day and 1200 for a week, but it will have to be delivered and I assume that will not be cheap.
I think that includes delivery.  That's why the big drop in weekly rates.  Check to see if there is a daily hour runtime limit/penalty.
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2021, 12:16:59 PM »
That sounded reasonable John, but I just called and rental was 1200 for the week and delivery to and pick up from my location was 150 each way.  Still, its not a terrible cost for something so helpful.  I could borrow a friends gooseneck and do it myself, but I'm not sure it would be worth it.
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2021, 05:13:23 PM »
how long is your friends gooseneck.  how far between properties, is there a back way?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2021, 08:04:20 PM »
That sounded reasonable John, but I just called and rental was 1200 for the week and delivery to and pick up from my location was 150 each way.  Still, its not a terrible cost for something so helpful.  I could borrow a friends gooseneck and do it myself, but I'm not sure it would be worth it.
To pick up a SkyTrac (or Lull or whatever)?!?  Your friend would have to have a pretty stout gooseneck and a tough truck to pull it.  My SkyTrac weighs in at 26,000 and some change. 

The rig that brought mine up to my property was a bed over wheels flatbed.  It was a tandem/dually set up that the bed slid on.  Might even have been one of those 16 wheel things with the stub axles.  Anyhow, the wheels slid forward to drop the "ramp" down to off load.  When backing up the SkyTrac, the rear set of trailer wheel squashed down almost to the rims.  I was expecting them to pop any second.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2021, 08:45:38 PM »
Although we move my partner's 20,000lb one around, its behind a tandem dump on a 20 ton trailer. I'd have it delivered.
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2021, 10:09:50 AM »
i guarantee even if you have a CDL, there will be something that DOT can destroy you on in that move.  be it insurance, cab card, IRP, IFTA, drug consortium, commercial policy..  something.  


hire it and save hundreds on court. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2021, 03:54:28 PM »
I asked for a price on the smallest telehandler they had.  He said it weighed 10,000 lbs so it is not nearly as big as some of the other ones.  It would be well within the abilities of my truck and friend's GN, but I think I would just have it delivered anyway.  It's an hour drive each way.  Also, that unit may not be big enough and I would have to get something bigger.  I'm ways away from doing this for now.  
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Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2021, 03:57:55 PM »
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2021, 02:07:52 PM »
Looks good to me.

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2021, 07:18:03 AM »
It sold for 16,000 and it wasn't to me.  Probably was a good deal though.
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Re: Re-building the Barn
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2021, 07:34:10 AM »
It looked nicer than ours and a decade newer for less money, I'd say he could use it, flip it and be ahead.
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester


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