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Per hour rate for moving logs??

Started by labradorguy, November 20, 2021, 11:38:53 AM

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labradorguy

Hello all.

I have a person who wants to know if I would be interested in using my equipment to get some logs up and out of a deep gulley and onto a landing. An 85hp 4wd tractor and PTO winch could do the work. They want to pay me hourly and that's fine, I just have no clue what to charge them where it's fair to both of us... ??  Any ideas what the going rate for something like that is? Thanks!

Andries

First some questions:
How far is the gully from the landing?
Is this strictly business or a 'family and friends' thing?
Do you need to trailer your tractor to get there?
A tractor and logging winch is not a skidder, are they 1200 lb logs or monster oaks at 4500 lbs each?

A guess here is that you've got a lot invested in that machinery. Cost to run it involves far more than fuel per hour. Insurance, tires, oil, main cable and chokers, re-direct pulleys, . . . and those are only a few of the bigger ticket items.
Don't under value yourself, and for sure, don't dip into the grocery money to do this. 
All that blah blah blah aside, $70 to $110 per hour depending on how dicey the work is.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

labradorguy

Thanks for the reply.

It's basically winch it out and drag it 200' to the landing.
Business. It's a side gig added on to a much larger clearing job.
No, it is tractor/winch sized logs otherwise I would be using my TJ.
The tractor is already onsite. I had to use it to help get a thrown track back on.

Thanks again.

Stephen1

I use the $1 per hour for every $1000 of equipment value and then I add my hourly rate. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

labradorguy


Stephen1

I want to make $40 an hr sawing. plus my equipment rate. sawmill and forklift = $80,000 plus my $40 = $120 yard rate sawing

If I am driving my truck I am $25 hr. plus my equipment. $50,000 truck 10k for my 24' float trailer =60K plus my $25= $85 hr is what I want to make when I am moving logs or lumber. 
This is how I figure out what things cost in my business
Ever since I started doing this I have money in the bank. I do not think I am excessive at all. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Stoneyacrefarm

Rates look good to me Stephen. 
If people don't like the rate they can go buy all the equipment you have and see if they can do it any cheaper. 
When you break it down to them the way you do they change their attitude a little. 
Work hard. Be rewarded.

labradorguy

Quote from: Stephen1 on November 20, 2021, 08:42:32 PM
I want to make $40 an hr sawing. plus my equipment rate. sawmill and forklift = $80,000 plus my $40 = $120 yard rate sawing

If I am driving my truck I am $25 hr. plus my equipment. $50,000 truck 10k for my 24' float trailer =60K plus my $25= $85 hr is what I want to make when I am moving logs or lumber.
This is how I figure out what things cost in my business
Ever since I started doing this I have money in the bank. I do not think I am excessive at all.
$40/hr USD or CAD?

Stephen1

$40 CAD but it really doesn't matter which side of the border we are on, the values are the same. For instance years ago I went to Italy, a cup of coffee was $1EUR the same as it was back home $1CAD. to me alot of the time, the difference in money is only when you travel and have to exchange.  
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

labradorguy

Quote from: Stephen1 on November 21, 2021, 06:46:16 PM
$40 CAD but it really doesn't matter which side of the border we are on, the values are the same. For instance years ago I went to Italy, a cup of coffee was $1EUR the same as it was back home $1CAD. to me alot of the time, the difference in money is only when you travel and have to exchange.  
I reckon so. I worked in Alberta, BC, Yukon, and None of it for twenty years. There were times when the exchange rate was REALLY sweet. :)

Stephen1

When I bought my 2007 Tundra, the exchange was sweet on my side for once. not very often about 3 times in my lifetime so far. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Stephen1 on November 21, 2021, 06:46:16 PM
$40 CAD but it really doesn't matter which side of the border we are on, the values are the same. For instance years ago I went to Italy, a cup of coffee was $1EUR the same as it was back home $1CAD. to me alot of the time, the difference in money is only when you travel and have to exchange.  
This reminds me of a story. I was traveling in Norway with 5 of my cousins and we were in a shop and the youngest cousin (16y/o) asked the clerk "How much is this?" "Just 6 kroner" the clerk replied. My cousin turned to her mother and asked "How much is that in real money?" :D :D I had to walk away.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Andries

Back in the day, during one of @customsawyer  'Projects', the question of how much to charge per hour came up.
The dozen guys around the mill were tugging on their beards and doing the deep slow reveal in Secret Southern drawl. Google hadn't invented the app for translation yet and I'm slow on the uptake most of the time anyway, but all the numbers that were being thrown out sounded DanG low. @Nomad turned to me and asked what I charged.
I'm deer in the headlights, they all know I'm the Foreigner, so I blurt out what my going rate was.
" $110.00 per hour"
Jaws drop.
Then crickets.
" That's in metric dollars boys!" said I. That got a few belly laughs.
Except from @WDH
He's a seriously serious guy.
So serious that he thought I was serious.
That doesn't happen anymore - he's got this goof figured out now.
@labradorguy most of us glaciated types will throw out our numbers in 'real dollars'. Take it down about 30% to convert to American. 😏
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

chevytaHOE5674

My hourly rate with a piece of equipment and operator starts at 110/hr and goes up from there. Customers bark at the price from time time I simply say "then go buy a skid steer or tractor, attachments, fuel it up, grease it, keep tires on it, insure it, haul it, etc and let me know how "cheap" you can do it. 

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_belben



:D

Whats the exchange rate on GDs and SGUs right now?
Praise The Lord

Andries

One SGU = Priceless
One GD  =  1/300 of an SGU
It all makes as much sense as metric conversion.
😝
@labradorguy did you set a rate and get the logs yanked out of the gulch?
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

labradorguy

I told them $125 for the 4wd tractor and winch. One of their employees is on the slope taking limbs off for me. I did tell them that I would cut the bigger logs though, because I didn't want the kid that was going to do it getting hurt. There are 40+" white oaks down in there. Not sure how many they want out. They just want their high hilltop view restored. The lady that owns the land said just keep the logs, sell them, burn them, whatever I want to do.... I cleared today to bring them out the bottom with a Cat.

labradorguy

I can't haul off those pretty white oaks without her knowing what they are worth. I took the scaling stick down with me and pointed out a veneer quality white oak. I told them at worst, at worst... let's just figure it as a stave log. I showed them the stick and pointed out how many bf in a 36" dia. 16' butt log. Showed them that there were two more logs about it too. "That's nice. When are you thinking that you're going to get them, so I can see my view again?" 

Just didn't care... She's an older lady living alone, widow. I guess it didn't register or she just didn't care.

I don't know what to do. ??? 

Stephen1

I would take the logs and go back with a nice gift. If it was a guy it would be a nice bottle. Maybe a nice basket of fruit and flowers for her.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

mike_belben

get her some binoculars to enjoy the view
Praise The Lord

sumday

I would say she is hiring you for a specific job that apparently is important to her. You made her aware of the potential value of the wood. She just wants her view. So give her what she wants and enjoy the extra profits. I've run into that occasionally where the customer just wants what they want and doesn't have an interest anything else.

customsawyer

I am getting that more and more now days. Some folks have lots of funds from some where and all they care about is the end result. The cost doesn't matter. Had a customer that will have over 150K in a pavilion on his property so he can get married in it. I hope he has other plans for it after the wedding. This next year he is going to start on his house and it is supposed to be 5 times bigger than the pavilion. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Stephen Alford

   Having something in writing (emailed or texted or hard copy) is always prudent in an any business transaction. Entitle the document ... Wood Purchase Agreement... for some reason it is better received than the word... Contract. Even an invoice pad with work order at the top and a description of what is to be done signed by landowner. Often times what someone agrees to verbally can become a torpedo when other family members , family lawyers , or family accountants get involved.  Doing this can seem inconvenient at times but it avoids looking over your shoulder. Hope you have time to post some pics... :)
logon

labradorguy

 

 

Have not taken any pictures, but if you've seen one nice white oak, you've seen them all. Here is a nice buck running around my place instead. You know, tree pictures are a lot like trout pictures. How many 14" rainbows can a person look at and still be interested?

There is a big party at her place this weekend. So I put a serious amount of lumber on the ground today. I'm going to be hauling white oak for a week. She has her view back.  :laugh:


mike_belben

Praise The Lord

labradorguy

He is a horse. Passed my stand last week at about 80 yards. I swear he looked like an elk...

Satamax

Quote from: sumday on November 23, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
I would say she is hiring you for a specific job that apparently is important to her. You made her aware of the potential value of the wood. She just wants her view. So give her what she wants and enjoy the extra profits. I've run into that occasionally where the customer just wants what they want and doesn't have an interest anything else.
In France, we have a saying; that i don't know if it exists in english. 
"A shroud has no pockets" 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

sumday

If "shroud" is referring to a burial garment we do have sayings like " you can't take it with you" and "I've never seen a hearse with a trailer hitch" and so forth. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the saying...

Roundhouse

Quote from: Satamax on November 25, 2021, 12:55:51 AM

"A shroud has no pockets"
they don't put saddlebags on coffins, is how I've heard it around here.
Woodland Mills HM130, 1995 F350 7.3L, 1994 F350 flatbed/crane, 1988 F350 dump, Owatonna 770 rough terrain forklift, 1938 Allis-Chalmers reverse WC tractor loader, 1979 Ford CL340 Skid Steer, 1948 Allis-Chalmers B, 1988 Yamaha Moto-4 200, various chain saws

SwampDonkey

"Money's no object." :D Wish I could say that, and I never heard my father or grandfather ever say that either.

I watched a video yesterday that was just random suggestion and a young fella had 4 acres of land to clear and stump for goats. ;D He was told by family it would cost money in the end. He hired the right land clearing firm who paid him in the end over $800 for the wood sales after costs for the work were deducted. He had $6500 of pine on that lot besides what else.

Up this way I've never seen anyone yet give away wood or treat it like garbage. :D

Take away, you can't give it ($$) away sometimes. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Satamax

Quote from: Roundhouse on November 25, 2021, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: Satamax on November 25, 2021, 12:55:51 AM

"A shroud has no pockets"
they don't put saddlebags on coffins, is how I've heard it around here.
Thanks a lot Roundhouse. Hey i didn't pay attention before, but we are from the same year!  ;D
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Iwawoodwork

If their road to the top of the hill is gravel maybe a gift of a load of rock, that is something always needed and usually appreciated.

Blue Noser

Quote from: Stephen1 on November 20, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
I use the $1 per hour for every $1000 of equipment value and then I add my hourly rate.
So a Ponsse Scorpian King is worth $900/hr+? 
That's about 6-7x what it's worth per hour.

Stephen1

Quote from: Blue Noser on November 30, 2021, 05:58:03 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on November 20, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
I use the $1 per hour for every $1000 of equipment value and then I add my hourly rate.
So a Ponsse Scorpian King is worth $900/hr+?
That's about 6-7x what it's worth per hour.
Im not sure what that machine is or it's cost to run? Help me out here. . If it is a machine that cost $900,000 to purchase that is probably what I would charge. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Satamax

Quote from: Stephen1 on December 03, 2021, 08:10:41 PM
Quote from: Blue Noser on November 30, 2021, 05:58:03 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on November 20, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
I use the $1 per hour for every $1000 of equipment value and then I add my hourly rate.
So a Ponsse Scorpian King is worth $900/hr+?
That's about 6-7x what it's worth per hour.
Im not sure what that machine is or it's cost to run? Help me out here. . If it is a machine that cost $900,000 to purchase that is probably what I would charge.
Quote from: Stephen1 on November 20, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
I use the $1 per hour for every $1000 of equipment value and then I add my hourly rate.


Stephen1, so you take the new price? Or the secondhand price, if you have a secondhand machine? 
That wouldn't make much on some of my machines!  :-\
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Stephen1

Thats a good question? I only started using that policy in the last 3 years. It has definnitly put money in my bank account. Now I still have a beat up old pickup truck  with 400,000 + KLM on it that I use to haul my shiney new sawmill around with. I raised my rates this year to what a new pickup and new sawmill is worth as I see it is the only way I can afford to have a shiny new Truck. I hope if buisness carries on like it has in the last 3 years that I will get a new or newer pickup truck, or at least one with less klms on it. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Satamax

Ok Stephen1 

Having mostly old stuff, I was wondering.  I admit I'm struggling to work with private owners. I'm working better with businesses. Some woodworker friends told me I was cheap. Some other people, that I was expensive. Mostly, if I do per day work. I charge 360€ a day. Whatever of my tools I have to get out. Otherwise I calculate 3x  to  4.25x the costs of materials,  or I try to estimate the time I will spend on it, and multiply material by 1.2 for roofing. 1.8 for general woodworking. When I saw on the sawmill, to make a balcony or else. I take other sawyers prices, and do the multiplying as explained above. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Stephen1

Quote from: Satamax on December 04, 2021, 09:22:41 PM
Ok Stephen1

Having mostly old stuff, I was wondering.  I admit I'm struggling to work with private owners. I'm working better with businesses. Some woodworker friends told me I was cheap. Some other people, that I was expensive. Mostly, if I do per day work. I charge 360€ a day. Whatever of my tools I have to get out. Otherwise I calculate 3x  to  4.25x the costs of materials,  or I try to estimate the time I will spend on it, and multiply material by 1.2 for roofing. 1.8 for general woodworking. When I saw on the sawmill, to make a balcony or else. I take other sawyers prices, and do the multiplying as explained above.
I think the problems with private homeowners is the preice. $$$$ We do not want to charge more than we would pay ourselves. If that makes any sense. But lots of time our ideas of cost are older, quite a bit older. We have to look at today and what everything cost's and price accordingly. If I have to work for 360 a day then I am out of buisness. I need at least 750 a day. I do not put any exchange into anything. I figure each country has it's own value.  
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

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