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Winch ideas

Started by schmalts, September 13, 2016, 07:51:00 PM

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schmalts

Anyone familiar with this type of PTO winch? It looks to be from a tow truck. Price is right, but I am hoping to find info if anyone could tell me if a tractor PTO would be in the speed and power range to safely power this thing?  It already had a roller fairlead and with the framework it could easily be made to lift with a 3 point.  Just a thought... I know wrecker guys would probably know more but I'm hoping maybe some logging equipment might use similar winches.

pineywoods

You won't be happy trying to run that winch off your tractor pto. There's 2 problems...

1 The drive shaft will be short with some extreme angles on the U- joints. The joints will fail frequently
2 The real big problem. that winch is designed to run off a truck pto which has reverse..Your tractor pto is not reversable. Therefore no way to power out cable. Yes, there is a dog type clutch on the winch to allow you to free spool and pull off cable. There is no way to dis-engage that clutch with a load on the cable. When (not if) you get in a bind, the only way to slack off the cable is to put the pto in neutral and get on the drive shaft with a pipe wrench..
HOWEVER, all is not lost. That winch coupled to a hydraulic motor running off the tractor hydraulics, make a very nice logging winch. Use a lovejoy coupling or a couple of sprockets and a chunk of roller chain. Member Banjo Picker made up a very nice example and posted picks. I have that exact same winch mounted on the 3pt hitch of my 50 hp kubota. Powered by a small hydraulic motor plumbed into the tractor hydraulics.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

schmalts

Yes! I was wondering if a hydraulic motor would have enough power and speed. I will try to find the post you mentioned.  Any pictures of your winch?

Puffergas

If you could live with a trailer arch the pto drive could still work. Need to put an old manual transmission between the winch and pto for reverse. Good luck.

In the end a Farmi style winch might be more cost effective.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

pineywoods

Mine is not as nice as Banjo's, but it does the job. I drag logs endwise up on the trailer rather than parbuckle.



 
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

North River Energy

If you drive that with a hydraulic motor, you'll probably get the power, but not the speed.
Find the specs for that rig, and you'll likely find a max speed rating for the drive end. You can then count gear teeth and figure out feet/minute.

A wrecker winch is for moving a large object once for a short distance with accuracy and control.
A logging winch is for moving many lighter objects, quickly over distance.

As Puffergas suggests, a Farmi/Fransgard/Norse/Tajfun (or the Chinese 'equivalent' of your choice) might be more cost effective if your time has value.

Puffergas

You also might want to consider resale value. Or if the old winch breaks can you buy parts for it?

On the other hand there is value in home built so here is a wild idea; build a donkey engine. The old ones were on a skid but a trailer should work. On the trailer would be an engine and winch. Could put a winch on the front also. Chain the tong to a tree and winch. Put a 3 point grapple on your tractor. The donkey can move it's self around with the winch.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

schmalts

Ok, a buddy has a winch on a trailer. 3 speed trans, gas engine that may or may not run, but heavy duty. This could pull plenty, but anchoring it may be the hard part. Your thoughts on this? Less than $400 bucks
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coxy

looks neat   there  must be 400ft of cable on there   hope you have better luck finding parts for the old 2 banger then we do  we have a couple on old balers and cant find parts

schmalts

was thinking a hydraulic motor might replace the engine. or a smaller engine just running a different pulley size.

Puffergas

Looks nice! Can't see were the winch is. Is it just a wire tuger? Just a light winch for pulling cable. You need to pull hard but a light tugger could pull a heavy winch cable back.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

schmalts

Quote from: Puffergas on September 16, 2016, 07:56:25 PM
Looks nice! Can't see were the winch is. Is it just a wire tuger? Just a light winch for pulling cable. You need to pull hard but a light tugger could pull a heavy winch cable back.
it pulled a drag bucket to clean sewers

schmalts

Im starting to think more about that winch trailer. I think a heavy blade could be put on the back to dig in, and then some safety shield on a swing out hinge for a cable break. The price is right, I would have to hope the motor would start but like I said, a hyrdo motor might work to replace it. What's your thoughts on using that instead of a 3point type?

Puffergas

Quote from: schmalts on September 20, 2016, 08:04:13 PM
Im starting to think more about that winch trailer. I think a heavy blade could be put on the back to dig in, and then some safety shield on a swing out hinge for a cable break. The price is right, I would have to hope the motor would start but like I said, a hyrdo motor might work to replace it. What's your thoughts on using that instead of a 3point type?

Are you talking about the drag bucket sewer winch trailer? I'm thinking a lot would pull a lot harder..
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

schmalts

Quote from: Puffergas on September 24, 2016, 08:24:19 PM
Quote from: schmalts on September 20, 2016, 08:04:13 PM
Im starting to think more about that winch trailer. I think a heavy blade could be put on the back to dig in, and then some safety shield on a swing out hinge for a cable break. The price is right, I would have to hope the motor would start but like I said, a hyrdo motor might work to replace it. What's your thoughts on using that instead of a 3point type?

Are you talking about the drag bucket sewer winch trailer? I'm thinking a lot would pull a lot harder..
Yes, the sewer dragger. I like the idea of all that cable. With so much of my land being not accessible via tractor I could pull trees a long way if needed.  The guy has no clue as what the winch is rated but my guess is more than enough. 

Puffergas

Is the cable at least 3/8"?? If the cable is smaller than that I doubt that it pulls enough. unless your pulling smaller stems.

If you know the ft/lbs that the engine puts out (and maybe convert to in/lbs) and multiply by all the gearing you could get close to the pull. A bit of figuring to it.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

schmalts

Quote from: Puffergas on September 25, 2016, 08:27:26 PM
Is the cable at least 3/8"?? If the cable is smaller than that I doubt that it pulls enough. unless your pulling smaller stems.

If you know the ft/lbs that the engine puts out (and maybe convert to in/lbs) and multiply by all the gearing you could get close to the pull. A bit of figuring to it.
1/2 inch cable is what's on it, he he says. I'm going to look at it this week

schmalts

I bought the trailer sewer winch for $350.
I took the wheels off and will go back with road worthy tires In a couple weeks.  I'll see if I can get spark on the engine and if do rebuild the carb and get it running otherwise find a different power option. A large lever controls belt tension to start the winch. I was thinking about a pulley to make it so I can pull the lever from a safe distance off to the side instead of a guard fence. What do you guys who seen cable snap feel a safe distance is?  The thing must have 500 feet or more of cable.  If it pulls it will help out a lot getting logs to the tractor

Fokke

This is the kind of winch I work everyday with. Some winches have a hydraulic motor but that is a different topic.
The tractor PTO works good, you just need the right gearing.



Quote from: pineywoods on September 13, 2016, 09:15:17 PMthe only way to slack off the cable is to put the pto in neutral and get on the drive shaft with a pipe wrench..

These winches are operated with the clutch of the tractor, so you can disengage the PTO and release the load. The PTO is engaged only when pulling and otherwise is in neutral, what bears the load is a ratchet built in the winch.

GraderDan

This is the Koenig winch I have on my tractor. Came off from a Dodge Power Wagon. It is slow, but does pull good and does what I need it to do.

  

  

 

schmalts

I've been working on the sewer winch in my spare time,  meaning not often. Replaced a pillow block, and a chain drive. Instead of getting the old wisconsin running I'm replacing it with a Subaru I got for free. I ordered a wireless remote system and will use it to control the electric clutch on the motor. But first I want to get it running and see how it pulls before I trick it out with gadgets.

schmalts

Got the replacement motor mounted, I got a 14HP subaru for free from a buddy, I have the wireless remote wired in. all working good so far. I may have to gear it lower as this video is only in first gear and it is still turning the final drive shaft fairly fast but I have no clue how deep that spool is and I may be able to remove at least half the cable to gain power and lower the speed. The video is with the final drive in free spool so the main spool isn't turning.  There is enough cable on this thing to steal logs from the other side of my neighbors 40 :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs9wucEWrdw

schmalts


thecfarm

Yes,it does look good. You will really like that remote. That will save you many steps in a day.
Winches are handy. Not just for getting wood out in those hard places,but able to stop and get another log along the way.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Puffergas

Dang, the donkey engine isn't dead. Long live the donkey engine!
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

schmalts

I replaced one of the ANSI 60 chain sprockets with one with half as many teeth. It slowed the pull way down and also gained even more torque. The slower the better, heck I have a 4 speed tranny and I am only using first gear!

GDinMaine

Nicely done. Here is an old tow truck winch I used for the same purpose. It is pto drive with power in/out and freewheel. It's slow, but fast enough for me.



It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

schmalts

Put the old sewer winch to the test the last couple days. This thing rocks! We pulled some trees almost 200 yards out of warm wet bottoms where no one could log without messing up the woods. With a skidding cone we piled trees up on higher ground.  Here is my son winding up the cable after a good days work of ash and maple cutting.  You can see the rear stabilizer jacks are lifted as we are ready to move the winch back to the shed.  Well.... there is a casulty from those stabilizers.... I had a wheel off and was welding on some hooks and an anchor point. I turned the jack up all the way with one hand and had the MIG gun in the other.... My hand slipped off the hand crank and it spun a million miles and hour as the whole machine came to the cement. The crank hit me twice in each arm. Broke my Ulna (forearm bone) 10 stitches in my index finger, and my other arm is black and blue. Holy cow that happened fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Od54ArMU8I

Puffergas

That kind of ouch shouldn't happen to any of us. Sorry to hear that and get well soon. Nice donkey engine ya got there.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Ljohnsaw

Any more video/stories on your sewer winch?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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