What would you do for free logs?

[Kevin_H.]

While reading the post about the dead red pine several of you guys made statements about free logs...I on occasion get the chance for free logs, some times I must drop the tree for the contractor and clean up the mess, sometimes I can just retreave the logs.
Several tree services will call, and the story is the same. With some I simply pick up the logs, but with others they want me to chop the tops and clean up...
I have the chance right now for 15 trees comming out of one yard, but that is alot of tops to get rid of
I have found that I cannot be selective about the type of log...If I'm not going to pick up the cottonwood this week, they may not call me for the cherry next week.
Just how much work will you give for logs, If any?

[Frank_Pender]

One of the things I have done is to contact the juvinile dept. in a couple of counties.  they have a group of youngens that have to do community service.   They will come in and take that which is left and remove the wood for the elderly or indigent folks that use wood to heat with.  The land owner can also get a tax credit for donating to wood.  I usually get the logs for taking them away.  Sometimes I might even pay for them  if they are a species OF special value.  a couple of my students are tree service people and they usually remove all of the brush as well as the firewood and I get the log for hauling it away.

[woodman]

I have a saw and a crane but i do not cut down i leave that to the pros. logers deliver to my yard at no charge to me.

[arj]

I get free logs from the town I in. also from the state. I have to pick them up, not always easy. At the begining of the sumer I got hooked up with one tree service, they deliver much better.  Now I`m over run with logs. Got a call today from a guy with a LT40, he wants to bring logs also. To busy to saw he says. keeps me and my Hud-Son mill very busy.
                       ARJ

[Kevin_H.]

I dropped two trees a couple of days ago and took the logs and left the tops, these were on an empy lot so nothing to hit, My contractor friend was talking to someone who made mention that a tree service was going to charge him $3000.00 to drop and haul off a couple of trees. Kind of make you want to go into the tree biz!

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I have done to much for free logs and made no money on the deal then on the next one make money coming and going. You are right that if you do not take every thing then soon you will get nothing.  I take everything but let the tree guys fell them and clean up.  On empty lots I will take them and have on a few others but I have them sign a wavier that I hope will keep me free of damages.  It is a crap shoot either way.
  I would like to have a loader like on a wheeler trailer to aid in such operations.
ARKANSAWYER

[RMay]

Arkansawyer have you got the Wheeler literature & video . They have a 20,000 G.V.W. but the trailer weights 6200 Ibs with a 4000 Ib. truck you could haul 7 to 8 tons . Has anyone on the forum seen one . The price on the 8-23-02 was $26,975 without winch . The electrical  brakes with 26000 Ibs. you could have a wild ride on the hills .

[Kevin_H.]

I was bucking a white oak today that had been pushed over by a track hoe. A tree service stopped and asked If I wanted some logs. the deal is that I have to pick them up.
Arky,
I have a 16' trailer with a 4500lb winch, I string chains from the back and use the winch to roll them up on the trailer. Worst case I take the bobcat, but I hate having to leave it and come back.

[Frank_Pender]

I will let you folks know, but i got a call this evening for look at 5 "big" douglas Fir for free, asfter they hit the ground.  All I have to do is take what I want and leave the remainder for a wood-cutter.   8) 8)   If they are any size at all I will have a self loader come in and pick them up for for me.  I will most likely "buck" them to 26', which give me several combinations of shorter lengths to cut when an order comes in for suck a species.  We will what tomorrow brings. :P

[Frank_Pender]

I had another call this evening. Again, free logs.  Three foot cottonwood this time.  Said to be about a half truck load of 3' sticks.  I will visit the site tomorrow, Saturday.  It is only a mile up the road.  The fir were about 15 miles away and may cost about $120 to have a self loader bring them home. 8) 8)

[shinglemaker]

I haven't bought a single log yet and been milling for almost a year (part time weekends mostly).
My neighbor is a residential logger and needs to have a place to take most of his logs.
He has them delivered to my site with a log truck. The customers of his pays for the log truck to haul them away.
I even take shorts because I make shingles with them.

[Kevin_H.]

I sawed up a couple of real nice cherrys on site today for a couple of guys, They got them home by making a tripod from heavy pipe, lifting them with the contraption and a come along then backing there small trailer under them...Where there's a will there is a way.

[woodman]

Shinglemaker where have you been havent herd from you in a long time nice to have you back.

[FeltzE]

What I do for free logs...

I pull up with a truck occasionally buck the logs to the correct length load and leave! The tree services I deal with often cannot move the trees once down on the ground. They are too large or require too much labor to chunck up and haul out.

By picking up the logs I am saving them dump fees, labor, and hauling costs.

If a particular job is lucrative enough I'll bring a 4wd Cat Backhoe to stage the logs first.

I am not insured for tree removal so cutting down hazardous trees is out!

Eric

[Noble_Ma]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum and new to sawmilling.  I have the same problem shinglemaker has ............ I keep getting free logs!!  The real problem is that I don't have a place to stack and store the lumber.  I'm in the process of building an open shed to store the stuff.  I'm only at it part time right now but can see this whole adventure really taking off.  As I learn more about milling, I also realize how much I don't know.  I enjoy all the info here and look forward to learning more from all of you.  I do recognize some of the names from another forum and have found their inputs a great help.  
the other Noble

[Tom]

Hey "nuther Noble". Welcome to The Forestry Forum.  We have a great time here and I hope you stick around and enjoy the comraderie.  It gets a little off subject now and again but then you shouldn't have to sit in a classroom everyday at our age,  Huh?

Maine.  It's gettin' ready to get really cold up there.   You and LW best make sure you have plenty of wood split. :D

Make sure you get back to your profile and update it.  That really helps to make you one of the gang.

[Bro. Noble]

Noble_Ma,

Glad you joined !  If we stick together we won't have to take any nonsense offa anybody.  My family came from Kentucky too----about 150 years ago.  I read an obit. onetime where a fellow was survived by 7 sons, all named Noble.  They had different middle names.  It's a DanG good name.  

Tom's right in that we stray from the subject on occasion, but if you need to know something,  there is a lot of wisdom and experience just waiting to respond.

MoNoble

[Noble_Ma]

Thanks guys.  Actually, I'm from Mass but it gets cold here too.  Yes,  I do have lots of wood split for the winter too.  For the most part, everyone seems to have a good sense of humor here.  I'll update my profile asap.

[Tom]

So-o-o-o-o........ we have a MassNoble and a MissNoble.  This could get confusing.  It's a good thing I have such a sharp mind. :D

...or would that be a MaNoble and a MoNoble?  Five more and we'll be like the Obit. :-/

George Foreman named all his kids "George".   Wish I'd of thought of that. ;D ..........no, not George, ......Tom. ;D

[Bro. Noble]

Tom,

Just don't let them start using my middle initial like those mean kids I used to go to school with did.  Maybe nobody remembers GB beer so it might be OK.

Noble

[Noble_Ma]

What we need is MoreNobles!  I'm already spread thin up here.  There's not enough hours in the day to get work done.  

[Tom]

....... "WORK ! ? ! ?"

[Oregon_Rob]

The question should be, What would you do to get some free time. 8)

[Jeff]

I'd Kiss Dobie Gillis.

[Noble_Ma]

Ok, I'll try and get everyone back on subject.  Here are a couple of little ones that I got for free.  In case you're wondering, they're Eastern white pine.  I think I need a bigger truck too!  I didn't have to go far to get them so I took the chance.  I'm working on a log trailer with a friend.

[Tom]

A bigger Truck?  They look like they fit in there real cozy like.  I'll bet you'll get a lot of mileage out of your front tires that way. ;D

[DanG]

Welcome aboard, Noble_Ma!  The photo brings to mind the old Ray Stevens song about the Shriner's convention.  "How'd you get that Harley up there on the diving board, Coy?"
And how did you get them unloaded without freaking up the tailgate?

[ARKANSAWYER]

  What would I do for Free logs.  How about a cross cut saw at night in the city park?  It is a very nice walnut and I bet they would not miss it for a few weeks. :
   NobleMa
  I bet they did not roll around much back there and you did not even need a strap.  Now does the tail gate still work?
ARKANSAYWER

[Noble_Ma]

I figure a picture is worth a thousand words.  Thanks to a backhoe at the site and my brother-in-laws utility truck, we managed.  Oh, BTW, the tailgate is just fine!!!  

Hey Arky,

I have Rhino lining in the back and nothing slides on it.  Even if I didn't, I don't think I would have needed straps.  It was a nice fit.  

-Noble

[Kevin_H.]

Man...I need one of those loader things... Going to look at a couple of trees tonite. they are still standing, but it is an empty lot about 200 feet wide. Mine if I drop them. When I spoke to the land owner on the phone he said they were just oaks and cherrys and didnt know if I would be interested...

Worked the real job yesterday, One of our trucks picked up a tree service guy that got hit in the head with a log while felling. Seems he was cutting with the chain saw over his head and the log kicked back some how and hit him. Wanted to go by and see what kind of notch he was using, but never made by. Oh well thats a different thread anyway.

[woodman]

Noble thay look nice are you going to cut them in the driveway

[Noble_Ma]

Yes, I am using my driveway for milling right now.  I have to clear some land up behind the house and build my barn and a sawing shed.  Not as big as Bibbyman's.  He must have lots of money to be able to afford such a big shed.  Just kidding Bibbyman.  I'm still at it part time but having a blast.
-Noble

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Thats Marys Shed on Bibby's place.  She needs to stay dry and warm when working so they got an electirc mill so she could be comfortable.  Besides Bibby was tired of supper tasting like diesel fuel.
ARKANSAWYER

 

[Rick-Wi]

Just got back from surveying out some logs. Gave a Card to one of the township forest crew members, he called and ask if I want some logs, looked at them today and there are two hard maples that will give a 14 a 16 and a 10 ft log, and they are 30" plus. A Basswood that will give 2 - 14' logs. plus this winter they are taking out a 25 acre area of Butternut, Maple, and Cherry. All we have to do is pick up the logs, no brush, limbs, nothing.

Rick-Wi

[woodman]

Rick watch out for those city logs, some of them have nails and outher ugly things in them.

[Jeff]

Yea like this ugly thing. Near as I can tell it was a standard screwdriver. Hardened too. Wiped out every tooth, tore out 3 shanks and broke the tip off a shoulder.  Why was there a screwdriver in my log???

[Rick-Wi]

I use a metal detector on the logs as they are unloaded. I went down that route and don't like the sound of them blades hitting metal. So now every log is checked first for metal.

Rick-Wi

[Jeff]

Scanning each log we saw would cost way more in lost production then what it would save. We saw a log every 30 to 60 seconds when we are running full steam. Imagine what it would take to detect on that many logs. I know there are roll through detecors out there but I dont know anything about them, and I bet they dont catch everything anyways.

Betwwn my debarker operator and me, we catch most things by visual clues. We have a whole pile of these logs right now. well, probably 30 logs.

What would you do for free logs? Hell, come by our mill we have about 30 available. Some even have there own built in lift hooks for loading!

[Noble_Ma]

Jeff,

I read a post from one of the forums that the mill xrays their logs.  Now that has to be an expensive piece of equipment?  I hit some tramp metal in some of the free logs I got and ruined a blade.  I went out and bought a hand held metal detector and haven't hit any metal since!!!  

-Noble

[D._Frederick]

Jeff B.
What is the cost and time for that screw driver. Do you have another blade ready to go?

[Jeff]

There was no need to change the blade in this case. A new set of teeth and replace the shanks. The shoulder with the broken tip seems to be holding its shank O.K, so all told it was about 45 bucks for the saw teeth, but they were about have wore out, so we will call that $20 the shanks are about $4 a piece so there is 12 bucks. so about 32 dollars in damage plus down time of around 20 minutes. You can also figure the cost of the log, because we dumped it once I hit that thing.

The down time in a commercial sawmill is the real killer. The cost of teeth and saw repair is incidental.

We have never done a cost analysis on what it costs are mill to run per minute, or more importantly what it costs not to run.

Ron W. knows more about this. He may have done a study at their mill, and it would probably be a fair comparison. I can tell you this, we would not take logs even if they were free if we thought they had tramp in them. They may be economically feasible to deal with when you only saw 20 or 30 logs in a day, but when you saw that many an hour they have negative value.

I actually have 4 blades total so I am prepared if I have a "failure" that results in taking a blade off. I cant remember when I put this blade on, and the last one was on for well over a year.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Guys,

A thing you strike (pun not intended!) here relativley often, is when a small tree has been used as a post or strainer in a fence line.    Of course the tree grows over all the wires, and then maybe the fence is moved or whatever, so you have a virtual minefield of wire and staples sitting there waiting for you in the log!  :'( :'(
Wouldnt affect the sawmill guys as much, as they would be getting the plantation timber, but for the one-off type guys, I need to be wary when I check out the trees (if its not already down and moved).  Look for old fence posts, or the location of the tree, ie was/is this a good fenceline position? ???
Hurts the pocket.  And when youve got short arms and deep pockets.... well, you get my drift! ;) ;D
Cheers
Charlie.

[Rick-Wi]

It takes about 2 min to scan a log with the metal detector. It is a Bounty Hunter and I set it up with no discrimination, and all metal mode. It will find a 6 penny nail on the first pass. If it is a value log we go back and cut it out.. if not it is firewood

Rick-Wi

[woodman]

Thats all i cut is city wood  i hear zing zing almost every day, but the guy i'm cutting for buys the blades.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day woodman,

You certainly know when you hit something with a chainsaw!!
And man, does it tear up the cutters.  All you think of is the time you know your going to have to spend filing it out, if its not toasted. :'(
Cheers
Charlie.

[D._Frederick]

Jeff B.
How big is the motor on your head rig? What RPM do you run your saw at?  Is your motor direct drive to the saw arbor or is it belt? If it is belt,do your smoke them when you hit a screw driver? With are old Simmons blade, it would knot the shanks off before the teeth would break, that was 40 years ago, so the blade design is nodoubt different now.

[Jeff]

Head rig is V belt driven by a 125 horse electric motor. 8 c belts, so I never loose traction. I just blow through screwdrivers and railroad spikes on the first cut.  RPM is 625

I have 75 horse on the Hydraulics and 75 horse on the vertical edgers.  Inserted  blade design has not changed at all since I have been sawing. I aint sure if a couple of our saws aint 40 years old. I know they are 30

[Ron Wenrich]

I figure our mill costs to be about $2/minute.  We also run with a minimal crew and pay an incentive bonus.  That helps lower costs, somewhat.  Probably the most important number to know is how much it costs per minute to run.

We lose 1 week of production due to trash metal, mainly nails, or about $4800 in costs, not counting teeth.  Total damage is about $6000, since every once in a while, a saw will need repairs.   I quite often throw out the log, depending on how dinged up the teeth are.  I will throw the teeth out if they are filed down pretty far.

A lot of these could be avoided if there was a little more time taken to inspect the tree when it's standing.  There are a lot of telltale signs to look for.  Foresters should mark suspected nails, such as signs.  Just ring the spots with paint.  Hint to foresters:  line trees generally have trash metal.

I'm running 125 hp electric with a 54" B pattern saw.  I'm mainly doing oak, hickory, ash or maple.  Feed rates aren't quite as fast as Jeff's, but when you hit a nail in hickory, you have to saw it off.  It ain't coming out on its own.

My worst damage came from an 8" piece of 3/8" metal.  Broke 14 teeth and bent 30 others.  Saw was junk.  

The worst damage I've seen is hitting the saw with the carriage.  At one mill, all but one tooth was taken off a saw.  At another mill, a saw was shattered when the sawyer pulled the carriage back into the saw and the dog was hanging out.

[Jeff]

I agree about throwing them out when they are standing. I know *DanG well that some of those guys see that stuff  (I wanted to say the other s word) hanging out of a tree , and say, "heck I wont hit it with my chainsaw, it their problem now".

There are a lot of tell tail signs that a tree has iron, and far to often they are disreguarded in thw woods on purpose.

It would kinda be like getting a counterfeit 20. Most people will go pass it on someplace so they dont eat the loss, but eventually somebody gets stuck with it.

[woodman]

You guys cut more logs in a day than i cut in maby a YEAR but i bet i hear ZING ZING more thanyou do.
                   I cut city logs.Posters tree house and ladders to get there and dont forget the old clothes line hooks ZING .

[D._Frederick]

Jeff B.
I a m interested in your 75 hp hydraulic system. Do you have a closed system with on demand pump or an open system? What type of carraige drive do you have? Hydrostatic system? Is your carraige dogging air or hydraulic? Set-works?
The big mills around here run there logs though a metal detector and reject logs with metal, you don't get payed for them!  I lost several logs that were being shipped over seas because of metal.  At $1000/m It hurt.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  If your were close I would take them free logs with metal.  At $20.00 per blade it is a better return then Vagas.  A few good FAS boards would cover that.
   Back in the ole days when I ran a circle blade and spit out 15,000 + bdft a day a bad log cost dearly.  There was $90 and hour sitting on their a$$ plus the loss of about 2,000 bdft of lumber worth $1,000 not being cut.  So a few teeth and 30 min would cost around $500 to $ 700 of income.  I have seen very few logs worth that much.  
ARKANSAWYER