Ugly logs

[Bibbyman]

I guess everyone gets an ugly log once and a while.  Here's one I got in Sunday evening.  White oak,  about 10" on the little end.  Split, dozed out, crooked, sap rotten,  with stump attached.  



I've had worse.  Have you?

[Jeff]

Firewood!

[Tom]

Your right Jeff but I have had them too Bibbeyman.  What gets your goat is when they want it quarter sawed into 1x12's and want you to save that "pretty" wood in the stump.

"It ought to be real pretty", they say."  "I've been drying it in the backyard for almost 3 years now."  >:(

[Kevin]

That looks like an ant farm.

[Ron Wenrich]

I've seen both sides of the equation.  Some guys have ugly logs and want FAS lumber from them.  Other guys bring in veneer quality logs to be cut into barn flooring.

[Bibbyman]

Yea Ron,  that's the case here too.  The logs came from a local bulldozer operator.  He brought in a lowboy load of them.  All had been "aged" a year or more – at least long enough to get sap rotten.  One was a 12' white oak about 20" on the little end and not a blemish on it – would have made veneer.  Another was a really nice true northern red oak about 20' long - 14" on the top end, straight as a laser beam , end and not a knot on it.  There was also the top cut log out of the red oak that was about 20' long and clean.  One walnut log about 20' long and 16" on the top end.  The butt cut had a couple of bumps on it and a little crook about in the middle but the top 10' log was perfect. Another six or so nice long sawlogs too.  

He wants decking boards for his lowboy and the rest cut into 2x4s to build a chicken house.  I told him he had way more than enough to cut out his deck and I would buy the rest of the logs.  He wasn't interested – even though he said he didn't like using oak to build with because it was too hard to nail.

The logs come from a sub-division development.  When I see the tree huggers making trouble for the loggers,  I always think of all the area timber was removed (and in many cases wasted) for urban development that will never produce trees again.  Do they think there wasn't trees where the new Wall-Mart was built? Where the six-lane highway was built to get there from their apartment?  :

I just submitted this for amusement.  >:(

Anyone else got a ugly log story or picture?  8)

[CHARLIE]

Bibbyman, tell the guy not to use red oak for exterior projects 'cause it won't last. If you look at the end of a red oak board, you will see all those holes that are like straws running through the wood. They suck up water something fierce. You can even set a stick of it in a glass of water and watch it wick up.   :

[marc]

I am a wood turner and i would cut the root part so it can be used to turn, ther can be alot of nice wood that can come out of it.

[Jeff]

Welcome marcsen! Your apparently someone that can find good in almost anything! Welcome aboard!

[Bibbyman]

Well,  I wanted them fresh.  They don't get much fresher'n this!  

I was helping my son do some remodeling on his house this morning.  When I got back home,  a neighbor has dropped of about a dozen white oak logs.   :

A coupe of others also had a limb or two.  

What does this guy do for a living?  He's a tree trimmer!!   8) 8)

[Bibbyman]

Allen Root of BTFSawmill and I have been exchanging e-mails almost daily for the past couple of weeks.  He has been running an LT40HDE15 mill for the past couple of years on a rotary phase converter.  As I am in the process of installing this equipment to support the LT40HDE25 with CommandCotrol that will arrive on or about January,23,  Allen has given me invaluable help and guidance.




Just the other day he sent me this picture of one of several bur oak logs he got in.  All looked just about as butt ugly as the next.  I'd just like to say I'm glad it was not me.

[Frank_Pender]

Gee, Bibbyman, I see logs like this and begin to count the dollars.  I use logs like this for cutting 12" x 12" timber for a local rock quarry.  They use them in 18" lengths to set the crusher on. I charge $675.00m board foot.   8)   The fall down is used for firewood, unless I happen to run into some nice feathered crotch wood.  This then goes of  $5 to $7 a board foot.  The firewood goes for $185 a cord for Oak and Fir goes for $145 a cord.   :D :D  All the way to the Bank.

[Don P]

That's seeing the silver lining :D, I was thinking it would even have to be chainsaw ripped to fit in the stove.
Bibbyman, get BTF out here. He sent me a cool pic of an arch after I made a post about one. ;D
I sawed a log one time and half a snake fell out. Had a few moments looking for the better half :D.

[Ron Wenrich]

$185/cord for oak!!!

How many cords do you want?  We're getting about $100/cd.

Many years ago we used to sell 12 x 12 to shipyards.  They used to use them to hold the ship up while it was being built.

Nowadays, we sell bridge timbers.  They can be anywhere from 9x10 to 10x17.  We had an inquiry about an 18x19 just  last month.  Prices on a 10 x 12 x 11 is about $600/Mbf for oak.  I have gotten as high as $1300/Mbf for the larger bridge timbers.

Switch ties can be another lucrative market.  We were selling 7x9x23' oak switch at $750/Mbf.  We used a lot of low grade stock to make them.  Hard to average that kind of money in decent oak, let alone low grade.

[Jeff]

Ron, what's a switch tie?

Bib with a name like Root the guy has got to be a tree man, get him over here!

[Frank_Pender]

Ron, I will pay cash, FOB, Dallas, Oregon. ;) ;D

[L. Wakefield]

   Bibby- your post (5 posts up from here) with the picture- I haven't sawed anything for construction yet- just firewood and general slash to get it out of the way of the garden- but I was always told that 'clear lumber' is the only wood worth anything- no knots, no branches, no crookedness. What do you DO with a thing like that?! I appreciate what you were saying about having to use a chainsaw to even get it cut up for firewood. It would never split. What happens if you saw that? My guess is the wood fibres would be running every which way.   lw

[Bibbyman]

Well, LW,  I'm happy to say it not my log. But I have sawn plenty like it for other people.  They generally are trying to use it for horse stall lumber or trailer decking.  The big knots open up cracks and cause terrible warping in all directions.  I don't feel I even break even sawing it for them.  Besides the doubtful quality of the lumber,  just handling the log is a struggle and hard on body and equipment.  Getting them turned on the mill is a struggle and dangerous.

I get a call a couple of times a year from someone that has had a tree taken down and the top and firewood sawn up.  Now they have an ugly log like this in their back yard and think it's worth a small fortune.  They get discouraged that not only won't I buy such a log,  I won't even come and take it away. :-[  Nail a bird feeder on it and plant flowers around it and leave it for the bugs to take care of.

[Ron Wenrich]

Jeff

Switch ties go where the rails make a "Y", which is called a switch.  They go progressively longer as the two lines go apart.  It helps tie them together.  Switch ties can be from 10' to 24' long.  Better prices for the longer lengths.

LW

Clear lumber brings the higher prices.  But, lumber and logs with knots still have value, especially if they are of a preferred species.  A low grade black cherry would be worth more than a clear beech.

Sometimes lumber will be rejected due to color from mineral.  The lumber may be perfectly clear, but unacceptable for clear finished furniture and cabinets.  We sell our mineral lumber to the casket company.  They don't really care since they use a dark stain.  Mineral can't be seen from the outside.

Clear logs of good size and good species bring the highest price.  They are sold as veneer and are used in paneling and the likes.

[Frank_Pender]

Well, guys, here itis again.  I had a fella show up today to gaze around for wood.  He saw an old knarly Birch log some 6 months old.  He went bonkers over it.  He indicated to wanted it and I said "Are you sure?"  His reply was, "Why not?"   I told him that it was rather far gone for good solid lumber.   It had started to "spalt".   He said. "Please cut it to 6/4."  I did.  It was beautiful.  (Note: I had, just yesterday removed it from a small log deck and decided to cut it up for my Taylor stove.)  After cutting he asked how much and I told him $50.00.  which amounted to a bit less that $.75bf.ft..  He was very pleased as he drove away.  I had more than enough for a pizza to be delivered this evening for dinner.  I am six miles out of town.   ;)  The boss was pleased she did not have to hover over the stove. ;D

[Don P]

One mans trash is anothers treasure :D.
Ron, we are right particular as to grade in any loaded timber, how are they figuring allowable stresses on such gnarly wood? It would scare the beejeebers out of me to drive a semi over a beam made out of that thing.

[Ron Wenrich]

Don

They don't drive semis across these bridges, they drive trains.

They are looking for solid wood and seem unconcerned about cross grain.  They will reject pieces for too much wane, shake, rot, and branch stubs.  As long as there isn't a double heart that breaks the surface or bark in a branch stub, it isn't counted as a defect.

Their engineering is time tested, long before tables were relevant.  The biggest requirement is that it be oak.  They may be using them as posts.

Frank

I was sawing a big sycamore to get some 12 x 12s for an order.  The log had laid awhile, and the outside had some spalting.  We got $50 for each timber.  

I went over to ebay to find some spalted sycamore went for $75 for a 2x14x4 piece.  We could have made more money from the spalted material than the timber.  I pointed that out to the mill owner and he thought it was nice, but too much of a hassle to pursue.

Specialty markets are great, but pretty hard to make a good living with.  The marketing is pretty tough.  

[Bibbyman]

Take a look at the walnut log Mary got in to saw yesterday.  Looks like Louis and Clark must have hacked the notch in it that killed it!  



It's about 8' long and 8" dia. at top.

[Kevin_H.]

And they want 1x 12's, No knots please. ;D

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Guys,

OK, heres the chainsaw slab millers take on ugly logs. The uglier the better!! [/size]:D  The big ones produce the most fantastic knot patterns when slabbed!  Of course my view would be different if I wanted dimension timber from them..... ;)
Cheers
Charlie.

[Frank_Pender]

Hey, Kiwi Charlie, I am with you on the knot, to knock clear lumber.   It all has  its place, but when you can sell some of the ugly logs at a higher price that the clear, one begin to wonder. 8) 8) :'(

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Frank,

I still am amazed by the grain patterns I discover with each ugly (and sometimes not-ugly) log-slab.  At the risk of not sounding like a 'good Kiwi bloke', its a thing of beauty! ;D, and I feel privileged to be able to create it.
OK, back to the manly stuff! :D More Power, Beer, V8's etc etc[/color]
Cheers mate,
Charlie.  

[ADfields]

KiwiCharlie you are behind the times!   It's V10's now not the little old V8's.
Andy

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day AD,

Sorry to tell you this, but over in Aussie, the V8 Supercars (a class of racing) are consistantly blowing the race class Vipers off the track!! ;)
Are there any other American cars now with the V10?
All the V8 competition down here is the classic Holden(GM) vs Ford battle.
My Dads favourite car of all time is the E-type Jag, V12.
If your interested, this is the website for the V8 Supercars.
http://www.v8supercar.com.au/

Cheers
Charlie.

[Jeff]

I thought ya'll was talking about the vegetable drink.

[Bro. Noble]

Now your talking Jeff.  

My Dr. got real serious with me about my diet so my wife has been getting me healthy grub including low sodium V8 juice.  It's not too bad if you put some salt in it.

I've been hoping my Dr. would appear here.  He's going to a forestry class to learn how to do a better job of managing his woodlot.  He's even thinking about getting a little mill.

Maybe this will get him to join if he has been peeking in as a guest.  I was just kidding about the salt.

Noble

[C_Miller]

You mean the salt doesn't make it taste better?

[Bro. Noble]

                               HI C

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Jeff,

If it werent for American TV shows down here, I would not have had a clue what you were on about.  I have never seen the juice here for sale.  Am I missing out on something great?
Cheers
Charlie.

[ADfields]

Well KiwiCharlie I, myself would not have a V10, I think thay are junk!   I have 4 Ford's, 2 are F250's that I put 460's in 1 is a F350 that I put a 5.9L Cummins in and my other 1/2's BroncoII with a 2.8 V6.   For racing I would run a V8 as well (460 or 429 Ford) but all I ever hear about now a days is the new V10's that cant be punched out or even timed hot from what I hear.   You are right, now if we can just get them to start making big block V8's at the big 3.   But sadley Ford no longer bilds 460, 429, 428, 390, 360, 351C or all the other great power plants thay did (but the 302/5.0L) now we have the V10's.   Same with Dodge, junk V10.   Now I dont even know what GM is doing but I bet thay still make the same small block thay have for neer 50 years now.

Take some Vegamite put it in a blender with some tomato juice and I think you would have V8 juice.   I cant stand the stuff!   I should try it with some salt in it like Noble.;)   I like all the stuff in it but put it all in one can and it just dont work for me.   Now HI-C is the drink for me!   I stoped diping Copenhagen 3 years back and every sence then I cant drink pop like I used to, just dont like it now.   So I drink ice tea or punch and HI-C is the best punch around! 8)
Andy

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day AD,

The 351C is a favourite of mine.  Up until a couple of years ago, Holden here (GM) were still using the 308 for even their hi-spec top-of-the-range models.  Just tweeked more than the standard.  Now they are using the 5.7 litre (Corvette or Trans Am?) motor as standard.
Check this out!
http://www.hsv.com.au/news/2002/pontiacf.html

And may I ask how you know about Vegemite? ???  ;) :D
I thought that was a local secret!
Cheers
Charlie.

[Haytrader]

My very first chat friend when I got my first "puter" over four years ago was from Tasmania. She sent me some vegemite to try. After looking at it and smelling it, I decided I wasn't tough enough to try it. :D

Now V 8 is good, especially the spicey version. I have been told it goes well with a beer, if you like a little kick to it.   ;)

HI C is way to sweet for me, but that is why we have so many options, so there is somthing for all of us.

[Jeff]

Ok, I think Vegemite is the down under plot to take over the world. We had a friend send us somes a couple years ago too. Same thing here, one look and NO THANK YOOOUUU.

See we're to crafty for ya, it didnt work!

[KiwiCharlie]

Aw C'mon Guys,

Youve got to be kidding me!  Vegemite, and Marmite (same thing, only has sugar added) is an institution here!!  Kids grow up on the stuff.  Its great on sandwiches, added as a stock to meat, its so multi purpose.  The English version is super strong, and you only need a smattering on your toast, but ours is extremely palatable.  You must have tried it, surely? ???  You eat the Kiwifruit dont you? The mites are far better! ;)
Now Twinkies, theres something that you should avoid.  Thats your attempt to take over the world! ;)  I finally got to try one in 1994 in Seattle, after seeing them advertised on almost all the back covers of the comics I read as a kid.  I wanted Twinkies so bad, mainly cause I couldnt get them, and they sounded TO GOOD TO BE TRUE.  Cream in a cake shell, what more could a boy want?  When I finally tasted one, it was OK, but I find it hard to believe that there is any natural ingrediants in them, it was a very chemically laced taste, so to speak.
Now, if anyone wants to try Vegemite or Marmite, I would be happy to send you a small pottle........
Cheers
Charlie.

P.S. Im serious.  

[DanG]

How is it on GRITS? ;D

[ADfields]

KiwiCharlie
Well I first herd of  Vegemite in the song by your down under groop Men At Work (the 80's ) and that got me thinking about what it is.   I have never had it and would love to give it a shot.   Cant be as bad as all that can it?   Cant be as bad as Muctuc was, I tryed that hear in Alaska when I first moved up   I like to know all I can about the world, I onley watch shows like your Alby Mangels Adventure Bound, This Old House, The Woodrights Shop and others that I can lern from.

It's a sad thing that the EPA in the good old USA is so tuff that we cant bild or even have that car hear!  
Andy  

[Tom]

What's a Pottle, Charlie?  :P  I assume "a small amount" but after Cattywhumpus I hesitate to use the word Ass-u-me. :-[  I sure would like a better definition of Veggimitwhatchamacallit.  It sounds more like a solid than a drink. :-/

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Guys,

DanG, Im sure Vegemite would give a whole new taste explosion to Grits!!  ;) :D

Tom, yes a pottle is just a very small jar or container.  You can get the stuff here in 1kg bottles, 500g bottles for the home, and pottles, probably to keep in the car  ;) in case your caught short while visiting or picnicing!! ;)
Its basically a yeast spread, now I know that sounds awful, but believe me, its not.
I will try to find a link for you to have a look at.
Cheers
Charlie.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Tom,

Here you go:

http://www.sanitarium.co.nz/products/spreads.html

http://nz.com/NZ/Culture/Food/Vegemite.html

http://www.vegemite.com.au/

Enjoy!!  :D :D ;D ;)
Cheers
Charlie.

[Tom]

Thanks, Charlie.  It sounds like something I would have to try......at least, just once.

Even the advertisements DonT tout the taste, rather the Vitamin B.  I get the impression that this is more of a health food than a condiment. Perhaps I can find some locally. :-/

[Texas Ranger]

Ugh, sounds more like a yeast infection!

[Jeff]

Sanitarium! Charlie is a Sanitarium the same thing there as it is here?? If so, that explains all I need to know.

[Tom]

You guys have no spirit of adventure. :D

[Haytrader]

The vegimite my chat friend sent me from Tasmania (and I looked at and smelled and tossed) looked somthing like the old blood bait we used to use to catch channel cat only it was more brown colored.  When I told her I didn't try it she scolded me. I knocked a few live ants in my chocolate pudding while in Nam and ate ant eater too but vegimite.......no thanks. Just not tough enough I guess. >:(

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Jeff,

We dont call them Sanitariums here.  If you mention Sunnyside round here, we all know where that means!
Cheers
Charlie.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Tom,

At last!  A man with a sense of adventure! :D  Send me an email off the forum, and I will be happy to send a small sample.
Cheers
Charlie  ;D

[Tom]

Ok, here goes.  I'm jumping in with both feet. :P

[ADfields]

Wow the stuff is made by Kraft.   Hay Charlie what will it take for you to send me some?   Do you want some Alaska smoked Samon?   From what the others say I would be geting the short end of that deal.   You can bet I will taste the stuff befor I smell it and chicken out!  
Andy

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Andy,

Just email me your details via my profile page, and I will be happy to send you a small sample to try!!  Easy as that.  They say its good on hot pretzles (spelling?).
Cheers
Charlie.

[Bibbyman]

Is food all you guys can talk about?



Someone's got to go for beer.

[Tom]

Where is Zealand? :-/ .....the old one?

[Don P]

Hmm, I've seen Zeeland on an old dutch map.
I think I'll pass on the vegemite just now, the electrician's helper brought a hunk of Limberger and cornered me on a ladder...It wasn't as bad as it smelled thank goodness. I was wondering who the first person to decide these things are edible is :-/ :D

[Jeff]

I am starting a new thread to carry on the vegemite carrying ons on the general board. I will link it back to here. The tread will be called Vegemite.

[DanG]

Haytrader, if you were in Nam, I know you have sniffed a snort of "Nuoc mom".  Vegemite can't possibly be worse than that!