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Author Topic: Cart for loading kiln  (Read 8428 times)

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Offline OneWithWood

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Cart for loading kiln
« on: April 17, 2007, 09:26:57 AM »
I finally finshed welding up the cart I intend to use to load my Woodmizer 4000 kiln (Nyle 200 with Honeywell controller). 
Here are some pics of the setup:

The rail system the cart rides on


The rails are 1"x" angle iron welded to 3"x6x" plate bolted to the concret


The cart itself consist of two 9' sections comprised of rails made from 4' channel with 6" wheels sandwiched between the channel iron and 3" box steel welded to the rails.  I made a jig for setting stickers from 1" channel and 3"x" bar stock. 
Here are two views of the carts



to affix the sticker jig to the cart I welded three 'feet' on each 9' section.  The 'feet' slide into the ends of the 3" box steel.  When the carts are loaded the jigs are slipped out and set against the wall.  The jigs do not go into the kiln chamber.


The only thing left to do before I get back to milling and start my drying oddysee is to paint the top surface of the box steel members with some rustoleum so the stickers do not pick up any rust.  I don't think I need to paint the rest of the cart.  Do I?

One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 02:34:08 PM »
That looks really nice.

If you are doing much Oak, I think I would do something more than paint the cross pieces. As wood shrinks or as you load and shift slightly, you could remove enough paint to cause a problem.  The steel will leave a lot of black stain over time.  You could put aluminum or stainless caps on. I suppose even a tape or plywood caps would work.

If you are not doing Oak, this is less of a problem


Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 11:39:48 AM »
Hi, Don.  Thanks for the reply.  I actually intend to do a lot of oak.  Would you expand a bit on your comment, please?
Does the steel outgas stuff that stains oak or is it more a problem with oak/steel contact?
I intend to always have stickers on the steel before the first course of boards.  Which is why I thought painting the tops with rustoleum or an epoxy paint would be a good idea.  Should I be doing more than that?
I could encase the steel box beams in wood on three sides.  I am thinking 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick slices formed to make a U.  Would that be sufficient?
Aluminum or stainless caps are cost prohibitive at the moment but something I could look into down the road.
One With Wood
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Online beenthere

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 01:47:18 PM »
OWW
I think steel to oak contact is the problem. Not going to jump an air gap. I'll be surprised if others find out differently.
Your stickers on the steel to support the oak should solve any potential staining of the oak. (reaction of the tanning and the ferrous material)

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Offline Tom

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 02:55:01 PM »
The moisture on the metal causes Iron Oxide and that combines with the tannic acid in the wood to form Iron Tannate, a black stain.
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Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 03:30:21 PM »
This is typical of carts we build. We dry lots of oak so I use aluminum. I used HDPE strips on this one as thermal barrier between the aluminum cart and the bottom heating plate of the vac kiln.

Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 08:34:52 PM »
I would paint the whole cart. The acid in the moisture in the kiln will make the bare metal rust. It's easier to paint it now while the metal is clean and rust free.

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2007, 05:46:42 PM »
I am getting ready to build a few carts for Frankenkiln in the next week or so. OWW, I like the idea of putting the wheels between the frame rails, it really lowers the height of the cart. Where did you get the wheels? I have heard that Nyle offers them, does anyone know if they are the same style? Also, how many wheels are needed per cart? One cart will be for 16' lumber, I am hoping eight will be enough. Thanks.


Dave
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Offline Mike_M

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2007, 09:05:57 PM »
Those are both really nice kiln carts. Thanks for the pictures.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2007, 10:11:14 PM »
OWW - looks like you followed the Nyle kiln cart plans.  They are tough to beat.  I like how you put doors on each end of the kiln.  This would allow you to mill, stack and sticker on a set of carts while you had a load in the kiln, and then simply roll one load out of the kiln and the new load in.  I also like your sticker guide rail concept - please let us know how it works out in practice.

Dave, OWW's wheels look just like the Nyle ones. On a 16' cart I think that you can get by with 6 - 8 wheels, depending upon the width of the cart and board feet of lumber that you intend to stack on.  I have 6 wheels on my 12 and 16' carts, and my stacks are typically 36" - 42" wide and up to 74" tall (36 layers of 4/4 boards).

One thing that I discovered after I built my carts was that I needed to make some type of blocking to eliminate the air gap between the bottom of the lumber stacks and the top of the channel frame.  I like to use a forklift to remove my dried lumber, so the blocking needs to be easily removable.

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Offline gharlan

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 01:10:53 PM »
Here is a link to a place that sells casters and wheels. Might be worth a look for a comparison to others. I know they can get kinda pricey if using many.http://www.castercity.com/vgroovew.htm

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 02:30:42 PM »
The wheels on my carts came from Nyle.  Their price was very competitive.  I used 8 wheels total for the two 9' carts.  I bolt the carts together to make an 18' cart.  I painted the carts with white rustoleum. 
The sticker guides work quite well.  I originally was stacking the lumber 80" wide but found when the pile got over 5' it was problematic.  I restacked to 40" so I could better handle the lumber.  The guides work real well for the first stack but are not useable for the second stack.
Go hear to see the finished stack about to go into the kiln go here:
 https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=1400.180

I need to make my upper baffles in the kiln wider so I can stack closer to the sticker guide.

To eliminate the air gap at the bottom I just placed some plywood up against the cart and held in place with concrete block.  I have side baffles fixed to the kiln doors and I attack a rubber membrane to the bafffles to fill any gaps.  I need to keep my end boards more consistant so I do not have such an irregular gap on the side.

First load is due to come out in a few days. 
One With Wood
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Offline oakiemac

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2007, 08:54:41 PM »
I'm building mine just like OWW but I was planning on using 3X3 oak boards for the cross pieces instead of the tube steel. Any draw backs to using oak instead of steel?
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 09:09:22 PM »
OWW, I looked at the wheels at Nyle, it shows a three inch wide wheel, with three and a half in axle. How did you mount the axle to the channel? Did you drill holes and then weld the axle in? I am guessing the axle is stationary, and there is a bearing in the wheel. Any info on mounting would be appreciated, we are probably going to be ordering steel for carts and track this week, as well as a bunch of wheels from Nyle. Thanks.


Dave
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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 09:52:57 PM »
I don't know about Nyle's design but i use one shaft collar next to the wheel between the sections that support the axle. The axle is short and design is simple.

Online beenthere

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 11:33:27 PM »
okiemac
Under load of the stickered stacks and in the kiln (changing temps and humidity), the 3x3's might show some bend in them...after a few kiln charges.  Worth the risk?  ::)
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2007, 07:43:14 AM »
Dave, you drill holes in the C channel and the axles are bolted in.  There is a bearing in the wheel.  These wheels are substantial.  There will be a lot of weight riding on them.

I chose to use the box steel because of the potential for movement with oak 3x3s.  Also a lot of holes need to be drilled to affix the oak.  Welding seemed much easier to me  ;)

If you use steel you need to encapsulate it to dry oak, or so I am told.  I have not put a charge of oak in the kiln yet.
One With Wood
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Online beenthere

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 09:51:48 AM »
.................If you use steel you need to encapsulate it to dry oak, or so I am told.  I have not put a charge of oak in the kiln yet.

encapsulate it, or just put a barrier between the steel and any oak that is drying...to keep the oak from staining black when in contact with the steel ??   ???

Maybe I'm getting the wrong picture... ::) :)
south central Wisconsin
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2007, 12:58:43 PM »
Oakiemac, I built my first kiln carts using oak.  After going through a few cycles (90% RH down to 40% RH) the top pieces started warping a bit.  My second set of kiln carts were built to Nyle's recommendations - no problems since.

Scott
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Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Cart for loading kiln
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 10:17:12 AM »
BT, encapsulate might be a bit overkill - you got me there  :D

However I did paint every surface just to be sure . . .
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln


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