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Author Topic: End Jointing New Pcitures added  (Read 3023 times)

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Offline Ga_Boy

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End Jointing New Pcitures added
« on: November 24, 2011, 04:27:04 PM »
 I 'm looking for suggestions on how to get square cuts on the ends so I can joint the ends and glue them together. 

Any suggestions?  I have a RAS and a panel cutter for my table saw.  Neither produce a true square cut on the end.  I've tried tweaking both to produce a square cut but so for no luck. 



10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Offline logwalker

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 04:35:50 PM »
Is your RAS a good older one in reasonable condition?
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Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 04:39:04 PM »
Does you panel cutter for the table saw have play in the guides?

chasing square can be quite painful, the pros make it look easy. 
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Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 04:48:03 PM »
The RAS is a Crafsman, I bought it new about 12 years ago.  My pannel cutter is shop built out of plywood and scrap oak for the fence.  The runner is a piece of bar stock.

Forgot to mention I also have a CMS, same story on making a true square cut.

10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Offline logwalker

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 05:14:43 PM »
What is the problem you run into with cutting them on the RAS?
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Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 06:29:14 PM »
How are you trying to joint the ends. If trying to use a glue butt joint it will probably fail because endgrain glue joints are very weak.

Herb

Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 06:30:30 PM »
What is the problem you run into with cutting them on the RAS?

When two pieces are cut on the RAS the joint is not tight for the width of the boards. 

Once I get square cuts, I will use a profile bit to glue the boards together. 




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Offline T Welsh

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2011, 07:35:30 PM »
Ga_Boy,You should be able to achieve square 90,s on both the machines. they need tuned up and set. the RAS will not give you good results after about 6" in width.the table saw will cut it,its all in the blade,fence and miter gauge. when I set the table saw up for critical cuts I always set it by a square or a tape measure,I do not rely on any of the markings on saw or gauge.Tim

Offline Jasperfield

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2011, 08:18:30 PM »
I don't know the volume of boards you have to square, but you could make a "shooting board" that is very simple to use and gives square results every time.

Search for "shooting board".

Offline CHARLIE

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2011, 09:31:06 PM »
Ga_Boy, cut your board as close to square as you can on your RAS.  Then fasten a 1/4 inch thick piece of hardboard across the end of the board squared to the edge and as flush with the end of the board as you can get it.  Use a Flush Trimming bit with a top bearing in you router and run the bearing along the 1/4 inch thick hardboard (Using it as a guide).  That will give you a square end to your board.  You might want to clamp a sacrificial piece of wood on each edge at the end of the board to eliminate tearout. I hope this makes sense.  It will definitely work.
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Offline Holmes

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 09:44:56 AM »
  If you put the 2 boards end to end on the ras  and cut that joint [ both boards at the same time] you should have a matching joint that is as straight as your fence.  Each joint will be a matched joint so you can not mix them up.  Holmes
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Offline jamesamd

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 11:17:30 PM »
What is the condition of Your fence and table on the RAS?If they are chopped to pieces and swollen from moisture,You'll never get a perfect cut.After replacing them "if needed" go through the set up from Your manual,step by step.Also check that the saw blade is not warped and razor sharp.Let us know how Ya do.
Jim
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Offline Holmes

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 07:11:39 AM »
  I will admit I never got a perfect cut from either of my Sears radial arm saws. I tried resetting the first one [ 70's] a dozen times  2nd one [90's ] a few times. Never could get them exactly square.
 I do not have a ras now but I do have a 10" compound mitre saw that is the most accurate saw I ever had
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Offline beenthere

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 10:10:56 AM »
I would agree with Holmes, as have heard the same thing for about 40 years now on Sears Craftsman.
Some of the older Rockwell Delta RAS keep square given due attention and care. The turret style are best, I understand (and use).
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Offline CHARLIE

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 10:36:14 AM »
I like Holmes idea of cutting both ends with one cut for a matched joint. That would be a fast way to do it and the ends wouldn't have to be square. The only way to join that joint, that I can think of is to use splines. If you lap the joint or make a mortise and tenon, you are back to unsquare one.  Using the router method I described will give you a square joint, but it does take time and effort and is not conducive to doing a lot of them.

I'm scared to death of all RAS.  I had a Craftsman and just quit using it and finally sold it.  I had the blade jump up and walk across the top of the board. That happens so fast that I'm glad I didn't have my hands in the way.  Also, after it threw a couple of boards across my shop with great force when I was ripping, I stopped ripping with it and only crosscut.  I finally decided I could crosscut with a Miter saw and it would take up less room.  I've never regretted getting rid of that RAS.

 
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Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: End Jointing (Update)
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 06:53:43 AM »
I was able to get my CMS to produce reasonable cuts.  The top is glued up and have three coats of Poly on it now, planing on five many six coats (it will be a work surface, Wife's sewing machine).

I'll snap a few pictures and post them tonight.  Thanks to all for the help.

10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 10:24:55 AM »
I found the mitre guage that came with the table saw wasn't much good for square. As soon as I invested in an Incra mitre that all changed.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 12:56:00 PM »
I also have to ask why you would be butt joining two boards.  A lap joint would be much stronger either glued or glued and doweled.  Finger jointing is used because they are gluing the sides of the wood instead of the endgrain.
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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 02:24:54 PM »
I'm curious to know what the application for these boards is. If they are to be structural members (and I would assume that they are, since you intend to glue them) then, as others have suggested, you need to be considering a different joint, like a scarf joint
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Re: End Jointing
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2012, 04:50:00 AM »
Here are two of the pictures of the table top.  I used a running bond patten to put it together.  The boards I used had some cup and twist to them.  To maximize the recover of the material I opted to rip the boards to 3-4 inches in width the cut them to 30-40 inches in length.  when putting the top to gether I used biscuits and glue on all edges. 

This top will be a sewing machine work surface for the wife's craft room.  She likes the look so I'll use the same technique for the top that will go on the cabinet carsas that I am working on (see cabinet carsas post)



  



  

 
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