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Author Topic: Box jointing on the shaper.  (Read 4540 times)

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Offline hackberry jake

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Box jointing on the shaper.
« on: April 23, 2015, 10:13:59 PM »
I have a job coming up that will require a lot of box joints. The boards will be 3-1/4" wide and about 1/2" thick. I was looking into stacking 1/4" straight cutters on my shaper spindle and doing them on the shaper, but I am getting sticker shock at 7 shaper cutters and six 1/4" spacers. I bought my stackable box joint saw blade set for what one shaper cutter costs. It started putting ideas in my head about mounting saw blades on the shaper spindle... somebody tell me thats a bad idea.
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Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 11:12:27 PM »
be very careful with the blade speed you may not can find high enough rpm blades to run on shaper. most of my blades are only rated at 5900 rpms  the grizzly shaper im looking at will only go down to 7000 rpms :-\  :)
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 12:04:50 AM »
If you can be satisfied with the rpm difference mentioned, then the saw blade usually doesn't give a flat bottom to the cut. But may just need some extra grinding of the teeth.
Will be interested in what you decide to try.
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Offline Larry

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 11:37:53 AM »
I like your facebook page.  You have some good pictures.  If I had a page I would give you a like.

I was thinking the Harbor Freight 4 circle blades might work.  It doesn't say how thick but they do have the right speed rating.  Have to bore for your spindle but I think I have that figured out now.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-24t-mini-table-circular-saw-blade-61243.html

Another idea is there joiner blades but I think there only 3/32 thick and a bit higher price.  They may have some other blade that would work.

If I had some steel round I might be able to turn spacers on the lathe.
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Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 12:23:37 PM »
Jake , if you opt for saw blades, look at rip blades as they have a flat bottom out for what you want to do.Freeborntool has probably the cheapest groovers , and they work fine. Look at Schmidt for spacers. Rob
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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 01:58:40 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-SBOX8-Cutter-4-Inch-grooves/dp/B000ASGV1E I was looking at the freeborn groovers. They are actually cheaper than grizzly and they are made in the us. Go figure. If I used saw blades, I would use the freud box joint blades and they're rated at 9,000 rpm. My oliver shaper is 7,200 rpm. They are flat top grind and I would have the ability to switch them around to do either 1/4" grooves or 3/8" grooves.
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 02:05:18 PM »
Jake, if your shaper has enough vertical travel, you should be able to hook up one of them digital readouts made for planers. Then you wouldn.t need but one cutter, just make multiple passes..
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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 11:25:25 PM »
I think I am going to give up on the 8" diameter saw blades. That's be a lot of rotating carbide and it would probably sound like a helicopter taking off.
I was thinking the Harbor Freight 4” circle blades might work.  It doesn't say how thick but they do have the right speed rating.  Have to bore for your spindle but I think I have that figured out now.

I may need to give these a try. @ $5 a pop, it sure would be cheap.
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Offline Darrel

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 11:40:21 PM »
Just remember that pictures of your setup will be greatly appreciated when you get it all figured out.
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Offline Just Me

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 07:27:48 AM »
What size is your spindle? I swing some pretty big cutters an my Unitronix but I have 1 1/8" spindles. I have been thinking about doing the same thing myself. I like box joints, they never fail, but are a paint to make.

Amana makes this.

 http://www.amanatool.com/content/index/detail?id=51 

Reasonably priced and I am very happy with all of the cutters I have from Amana. There is also this...

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5731-insert-adjustable-grooving-cutter-with-scorer-8-24mm.aspx?variantids=8972,0&affiliateid=10054?source=pricegrabber&gdftrk=gd

I have one of those adjustable groovers and it works well, but you would not be able to stack close enough for multiple cuts at one pass because of the body.

If your spindle/hood are big enough, I think the 8" size would give better results. I know I have slotting cutters in different diameters and the larger ones do a better job, especially coming out of the cut.

Larry

Curious what you come up with as well, Larry

Offline johnnyllama

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 11:01:47 AM »
Jake,
  Have you considered a corrugated shaper head and some custom ground HHS knives? I've had custom knives made up to match many profiles, plus once you have the head you can use it for any knife pattern. If your boring out a 5/8 arbor hole to fit your router spindle you run the risk of getting slightly off center and out of balance.  Plus if anything goes wrong, at 7,000 + rpm's it could be a mess! I've got a 4" tall head I use for crown, etc. Or, just get the Freud set, make a sled for the table saw with an index pin, and go at it. The advantage to this approach is unlimited box depth, where as on the shaper you would be limited to a fairly shallow box depth, based on spindle height.

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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 02:30:18 PM »
Ive thought about insert tooling, but at 1" depth on a knife with 1/4" wide cutters, id think the knife would be too weak. I have a powermatic shaper with a 1" spindle and an oliver with a 1.25" spindle. The oliver doesnt have a miter slot, but that can be worked around. The Freud box joint blades are a two blade set. Id need seven sets being 14 individual saw blades at 8" diameter. And I know a machinist thats already set up for boring out saw blades. He aint real bright but hes a decent machinist.  ;D
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Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 05:53:42 PM »
how many are you making?

Do you have a table saw jig?  I don't think I'd want to use a shaper....

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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 09:04:02 PM »
I have a table saw jig and it just takes too long. The job will be building crates. On the table saw I have to make seven passes per end per slat. Thats 14 per slat or 140 passes per crate.

 

 
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Offline gfadvm

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 09:22:52 PM »
I would clamp those slats together and batch cut them with my jig on the tablesaw using the Freud box cutter set.

Offline Larry

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 10:19:19 PM »
And I know a machinist thats already set up for boring out saw blades. He aint real bright but hes a decent machinist.  ;D

I heard that! ;D

Nice looking crate and original to. :)
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2015, 06:21:03 PM »
cool  ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
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Offline Just Me

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2015, 05:44:30 AM »
I do Large kitchen drawers like that with slats but use 1/2' spacing. 1/2" would cut you cutter requirement in half. Still looks good.

Still won't be able to do the middle/end of the crate with the shaper because of reach I suspect.

What about wedged through tenons? Good look, strong, and you could set up your CNC to do most if not all of the work. It would be stronger on the bottom as well.

Offline Delawhere Jack

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2015, 08:57:22 AM »
I would clamp those slats together and batch cut them with my jig on the tablesaw using the Freud box cutter set.

This is what I would do also.

Offline rasman57

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Re: Box jointing on the shaper.
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 04:16:05 PM »
I have a table saw jig and it just takes too long. The job will be building crates. On the table saw I have to make seven passes per end per slat. Thats 14 per slat or 140 passes per crate.

Those look cool!  What will they be used for?  Are they a practical application for a grower, shipper, etc or are they just neat crates for display?   They look like they would be very sturdy.


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