I had a job yesterday where I used not one, but two tricks I learned from Magicman here on the Forestry Forum.
The customer had one large log from a tree taken down in the front yard just the day before I arrived with my mill. The front yard was not large, and on the whole was not even close to level, but there was one spot right along the front of the house that was level enough to set the mill up on. Of course, that's not quite where the log was. It was about 20 feet away downhill.
Just looking at the log and the slope I knew that there was no way I'd be able to move the log by hand even with the LogRite MegaHook. I did try, just to prove that I was right. So if this was to be done, I'd have to use the mill's hydraulics. After studying the situation for a minute or two, I decided that it was unlikely that I would be able to drag the log to the mill. If I tried that I would almost certainly drag the mill to the log. But if I could figure out a way to roll the log to the mill, that would probably work.
Magicman has posted many times about the usefulness of one or two 'log hooks' around the mill. I believe he made his from a set of log tongs, which would be beyond my metal working capabilities, so I was stumped for a while. Then one day I noticed my old crappy, somewhat broken, log-stand leaning up in a corner. This is kind of like a cant hook, which means it has a hook, which I found could easily be removed. So I've had a 'log hook' in my rigging bag for the last month or so.
I had thought this tool would be most useful when trying to move a log forward or backward on the mill deck, using the side-supports for power. In the long run, this may turn out to be the most common use, but it was not the first one.
The hook was used along with some chain, some rope, and sometimes some nylon slings to gradually roll the log to the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19920/2553/03-26_Majewski_1.JPG)
I think you can just make out the hook at the top of the log in the picture. The clamp was doing the pulling. The log had to be chocked after every pull to keep it from rolling back down the hill when the tension was released. Something needed to be adjusted or repositioned after every pull, so it was not a real quick process, but eventually it did get the job done.
Getting the log onto the loading arms was not the end of our problems though. The loading arms were not up the task on their own, so the clamp was used again to help. This was not an entirely straight-forward process, but we did eventually get the log up onto the mill deck.
It was at this point that I measured the log. 22" at the small end inside the bark, and 18' 8" long. We lucked out in that the log ended up on the mill perfectly centered. This was not due to careful planning on my part.
Since the tree had just been cut the day before, I thought is was worthwhile to take a few minutes to put some Anchorseal on the ends. While doing the butt end, it would have been hard not to notice the heart-check. So the first order of business was to make this either vertical or horizontal by turning the log.
Of course, a log too big to lift easily, is also too big to turn easily. To help with the turning, I employed the second Magicman trick of the day, the turning claw pull-back rope.
With a larger log, you'd like to have the claw grab the log further from the rail than it would if left to its own devices. I've used a bungee cord to do this in the past, but the rope trick works much better. I ran the rope through the last link of the chain that hold the arms up during transport, and tied it off on the claw. I could then pull on the other end while standing at the operator's station to get the claw to grab the log where I want, rather where it wanted. I still needed to use both the claw and the clamp to get the log through the first few turns.
Eventually, we had a manageable cant, and we ended up making a nice stack of 18' oak boards.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19920/2553/03-26_Majewski_3.JPG)
So, thanks Magicman, you were a big help on this job.
--Peter
You are very welcome Peter, and you made my day. I'm just glad that you had them "before" you needed them. I used the end tong last week rolling and then loading that big old red oak log. I would never want to be without it.
I've used these twice to hold a big log on the loading arms as it's being raised, using the clamp on my Wood-Mizer. The hook is a Log-Rite MegaHook replacement which Kevin at Logrite sold me, together with the shackle and bolt. It has a 15 foot 3/8 chain attached. The other gizmo is a chain fixture (USA) I got from AW Direct, together with a 5/16" hook which fits 5/16 or 3/8 chain.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21495/2822/hook_rigging.jpg)
The "Gizmo" is fantastic helping get the most out of the limited travel of the clamp. I was sick of adjusting straps, etc, and having knots in rigging. I want to try the chain/hook arrangement to roll logs under power, using either my portable rope winch, or truck etc. I think I can wrap the chain around a log in the middle to get quite a bit of travel out of it, possibly using more than one chain. Also I think having 15 foot of chain on the hook will limit it from moving very far if something would fail under load.
Also Lewis Winch sells a heavy duty hook for about $80 (Bailey's ) but the Log-Rite one cost less
Good to see some of the "how to and useful tips" have come in handy!
Congrats on a job well done Peter!
I've used a farm jack to roll logs over when I'm stuck.
I like the chain idea, but it never pops into my mind when i could use it!
Try it once to load a big log that could roll back off. Don't have to have anyone on the other side with jacks forks or over there at all.
Here is the end tong attached to the log clamp. Both hydraulics are being used to lift that heavy oak log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0087S.JPG)
I have a setup exactly like terrifictimbers has, with an added feature. Instead of one chain I have three, each with a grab hook on one end. You can string these together to get a really long chain, removing sections as the log gets closer to the mill. Also, instead of attaching the chain directly I have a grab hook shackled to the log hook. That gives me even more flexibility.
I once forgot the log hook but I was able to get several wraps of chain around the log. All it took to keep the chain from slipping was a 4" spike.
Them old hooks off peevees are handy I have two with short chains on them that I use for end hooks on my Tractor bucket (once again idea stole from M_M) ;D I have found several in junk at garage sales. My mill don't move but sure am grateful that Duane used I beam I had saved for trailer frame for ridge pole chain hoist on trolly sure works for rolling big logs on mill. So I admire you portable guy's inginuity with deals like that ::)
For the benefit of some of the newer members, I'll throw up some pictures of mine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0283.JPG)
They were both made from broken skidding tongs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0290.JPG)
Shown moving a 20' SYP log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0261.JPG)
Turning and rearranging logs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0248.JPG)
Adjusting a log on the mill using the roller toe boards and side supports.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0489_%28Small%29.JPG)
Helping load a "too heavy" White Oak log.
I ran upon Magicman in Wal-Mart in Brookhaven the other day. I recognized him from his picture on the forum. He's what we southerners call a good ol' boy and he knows his sawmilling. He's also a really nice guy.
See there are some good things on the internet. Now what can we learn next.
You can use the same method to move your mill sideways if the log is heavy enough >:(.
Or maybe break off an outrigger :o
Great tips, Magic Man!
I've got some old hooks and chains from a wrecker that have been hanging around for a few years. I think these could be modified with a torch and grinder to work.
All I need now is a sawmill to try it out on. Pretty soon......
Quote from: pnyberg on March 27, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
I had a job yesterday where I used not one, but two tricks I learned from Magicman here on the Forestry Forum.
The customer had one large log from a tree taken down in the front yard just the day before I arrived with my mill. The front yard was not large, and on the whole was not even close to level, but there was one spot right along the front of the house that was level enough to set the mill up on. Of course, that's not quite where the log was. It was about 20 feet away downhill.
--Peter
Nice milling job for sure, I was curious how do you charge customers so that you are able to make it profitable for you to go and mill up one log like that?
Quote from: northwoods1 on April 04, 2011, 08:44:07 AM
Nice milling job for sure, I was curious how do you charge customers so that you are able to make it profitable for you to go and mill up one log like that?
My pricing structure is $1.00 per mile one-way to bring the mill to the logs, $60.00 per hour for labor, whether milling, moving logs, stacking lumber or whatever, and $25.00 for each blade damaged by foreign objects. I charge for the time it takes to set up the mill at the start of the job (usually about 15 minutes), but not for the time to pack it up at the end.
For this job, the travel was 53 miles.
I logged 1 hour and 20 minutes in non-milling labor for setup, log moving, and applying Anchorseal. This was my first time using the mill hydraulics to move a big log, and I learned a thing or two in the process, so I think I'll be quicker next time.
I logged another 1 hour and 20 minutes for milling the log into 1" and 2" boards. It was just me and the customer and the 22" x 18' 8" log, so I had to handle one end of every slab and board.
So that's $160 labor and $53 for travel for a total bill of $213. Obviously that's not a huge contribution to covering the fixed costs, but it certainly more than covers the variable costs of doing the job.
I look at every job as the potential for being the starting point of a network of contacts that could lead to more jobs. In this case, the customer is an architect, so there might be even more potential than usual.
--Peter
Quote from: pnyberg on April 04, 2011, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: northwoods1 on April 04, 2011, 08:44:07 AM
Nice milling job for sure, I was curious how do you charge customers so that you are able to make it profitable for you to go and mill up one log like that?
My pricing structure is $1.00 per mile one-way to bring the mill to the logs, $60.00 per hour for labor, whether milling, moving logs, stacking lumber or whatever, and $25.00 for each blade damaged by foreign objects. I charge for the time it takes to set up the mill at the start of the job (usually about 15 minutes), but not for the time to pack it up at the end.
--Peter
That seems like a well thought out approach. :)
I have also admired Peter's business approach from the beginning. His entire operation, including his website, seems bulletproof.
I ride on the shoulders of giants. My business plan is the distillation of thousands of posts here on the Forestry Forum. (But I hope that no one is shooting at me.)
--Peter
Where is my durn gun when I need it :D :D ;D ;D :D