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Only the Tough Need to Apply

Started by mills, March 16, 2013, 06:47:55 AM

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mills

Know any young men tough enough to survive the woods for the next ten to fifteen years? From what I saw the other day, he'll probably be lonely, but he'll get to decide which mill gets his logs, and how much he wants to get paid for them. :D

I attended a Kentucky Master Logger recertification class earlier this week that had, I'm guessing, forty to fifty loggers in the class. Looking around the room, I was surprised at the amount of gray headed, (or bald) old farts sitting there.  ;D "WE" were definately in the majority. Asking around during one of the breaks, I found two to be in their 30's, three of four more in their 40's, the rest of us were in our 50's, 60's, and several in their 70's. One wise old gentleman commented that with the current state of this industry, there are very few young men willing to step into woods to carve out a business. I hate it, but it looks like we're going the way of the American farmers. :'(

m wood

I had some forestry training in the early 80s in an oregon job corps.  Ive done a million things since then.  In the back of my mind I think often of starting over (professionally) in the forest/logging trades...but I know better...50 next month and gray all over but in good health.  I have to resign myself to my own woodlot and straddle the hobby/extra income, fence.  Too bad to hear the lack of young(er) bloods getting into the woods.  Many would love it if they would try it.
I am Mark
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Norwood mark IV
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check out FB

Peter Drouin

It's like that with all the trades. I see it all the time, to bad :(
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

PAFaller

I'll be 30 in a few months so I guess I'm young by industry standards, and while I love woods work I cant say with certainty that I would choose it again.  Been more than once I've hung my head in disgust and thought about doing something else. Especially on the logging side you are always a price taker, and the prices you take havent kept up with the devalued dollars over time. How many of the over 40 crowd at that class could recall 1 or 2 dollar fuel, 800 dollar skidder tires, 450 dollar chain saws etc. And they can tell you what they made back then, and at the end of the day adjusted for inflation its a lot more than I am bringing home now. I can say with certainty that if my wife did not have benefits I could not work hard enough or cut enough wood to pay for a truck, skidder, mortgage, business insurances, health vision dental insurance, operating expenses, taxes etc and have anything left over. And I feel I get paid a pretty decent rate, and I work with a small mill that takes pretty good care of me. But even they are in essence price takers too, competing for stumpage, sawing and selling green lumber to kiln operators etc. They too have seen the profit margins shrink as the stumpage prices have fluctuated a bit but the operating expenses are ever increasing. We are all earning a living, and would love the government to let us keep a little more of it, but the headaches of business ownership, along with the hardships of being in the timber business to boot make it a pretty poor career choice.
It ain't easy...

Mark Wentzell

I know up here, a lot of young people who would have usually entered the logging world are instead working in the oil sands. More pay and more jobs in that sector. If this means that there will be more jobs opening up in forestry maybe it will become a higher paying industry. A skidder operator will become much more expensive if they're impossible to find.

Autocar

I only know one fellow thats in his thirtys but most of the guys are over fifty and seventy. As the years have passed it seems like everything has come down to produce more volume to make money. I remember the days when the buyer would come to the landing and take a walk around the layed out logs and say what do you have to have for them. Well tham days are gone but like we have said time and time again once its in your blood your addicted to logging.
Bill

MEloggah

not quite 30.........5th generation.....wouldnt want to do anything but log, conventionally.

1270d

I guess I'm one of the younger guys I know of in the woods.  I can only think of one or two others around my age.  Im 27   most that I know are in their 40 s or 50s. 

craigc

PAFaller,  I think you nailed it.
Rottne SMV, Timbco with Logmax 9000, JD 540B Grapple.

tyb525

One of the things I'd love to do. Never worked for a logger but I've felled and skidded quite a few trees.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

colincb183

Well I'm definitely one of the younger guys. Only 18.  I started cutting pulp on my grandpa's farm two years ago.  And like you guys say it is addicting. Im not cutting any more until summer because i'm in college right now and it bums me out that im not in the woods.  Unfortunately a lot of guys my age would rather do something that is less labor intensive and that pays by the hour. But most of them haven't ever worked in the woods. So i wouldn't say all us young guys dont want to be in the woods   

MEloggah

almost all my buddies work in the woods. started late in life, like when they graduated highschool. they drive 'gwapple skiddahs' for mechanized operations. it takes about as many brains as being a walmart greeter.

1270d

Quote from: MEloggah on March 16, 2013, 12:46:15 PM
almost all my buddies work in the woods. started late in life, like when they graduated highschool. they drive 'gwapple skiddahs' for mechanized operations. it takes about as many brains as being a walmart greeter.

So are you insulting all of your buddies here?

jwilly3879

I'll be 66 in a few months, been knocked out a few times, been cut a few times (before chaps) and looked over my shoulder so much I now turn from the waist to look back. I promoted myself to the landing, cutting up and stacking with the old Barko. My oldest son who is 45 does the felling and skidding. He has suffered his injuries also, the worst was a whack on the head that put him out of work for months. The last was 4 years ago when he slipped on the ladder on the loader and got his foot caught, fell and screwed up his knee. When he is available my 18 year old grandson works with us cutting up for the old guy and learning proper felling techniques from his Dad. He has been running the skidder on the better terrain, leaving the really steep stuff to his father. He will be attending college this fall, studying for a job in the forest industries.

My son and I both have other jobs during the week that help to support the logging habit, we would like to do it full time but as PA Faller said the money just isn't there for the small operator. Fortunately for us our overhead is low and we have had some good wood to cut.

I is pretty neat to have 3 generations workin together.

MEloggah

Quote from: 1270d on March 16, 2013, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: MEloggah on March 16, 2013, 12:46:15 PM
almost all my buddies work in the woods. started late in life, like when they graduated highschool. they drive 'gwapple skiddahs' for mechanized operations. it takes about as many brains as being a walmart greeter.

So are you insulting all of your buddies here?

YUP! i raz the all the time about it and they call me a cave man for still using chain saws and cable skidders. fire_smiley

MEloggah

jwilly,

i have a friend who climbed up the ladder of the log loader to talk to the trucker about what he wanted and on the way down slipped and his wedding ring caught a rung and ripped the finger off.

jwilly3879

Right after Thanksgiving my son had a branch that got caught in the rear tire chain come around and smack his left hand which was on the steering lever in the TJ 240 and break his finger right at his wedding band. When he got off the skidder and was holding his hand I was sure glad there was no blood. First words out of his mouth were, " I know, I know we should have had the door on."  The door is now in place!

lumberjack48

Like i've said here before, this is what started to happed here 30 yrs ago.
I had a chance to buy some beautiful 40 inch White pine logs over by Perham,mn, 2 yrs ago, none of the big saw mills wanted them. They told me they had no money to tie up in inventory, nobody was buying lumber.  The Amish bought-em for pallet wood.

It was 35 yrs ago the State of Minn. said they didn't want to see a chainsaw in the woods or a man on the ground in x years. That it was going to be all mechanized logging and i'm sure this is what pushed the mills to stop giving out small contracts. This is when they started biding the stumpage higher then what they payed for the wood delivered. My father aways said there has to be money sliding under the table to be able to do this. He was very unhappy watching this happen to the community, meaning all the small loggers including use.

Big business ran use all out of business
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

jd540b

Well said PAfaller and MEloggah.  A big difference too is that loggers used to be "woodsmen" and had a spiritual attachment to the woods now mainly guys are just equipment operators playing a numbers game-big difference.  I'm with you MEloggah us few conventional guys are the holdouts....I'll be 43 this year and on the young end in this neck of the woods. 

MEloggah

my buddies would have any of our cable skidders on their roofs in half a day. wouldnt know how to file a saw and def couldnt chop

Mark K

I'll be 35 in a month and I'm the youngest contractor working for the mill. Most of them are in there 50's and 60's. Theres one contractor thats pushing 80.  I worked with my father through my school years in the woods. I've tried different things but always found my way back to the woods. Over the years I've had young guys stop by the landing looking for work. Some owned equipment so I'd give them my foresters number. Once they found out what the comp. and liability insurance is going to cost them most walk away. The ones that do give it a shot don't seem to last long. They tend to go hog wild buying machinery and not banking for the slow times. Before you know it there bankrupt. I've learned to live within my means and so far have made a decent living.
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

SwampDonkey

There was a time to, that a lot of loggers on public forest stayed in camps. And this was true up to the mid 80's around here. There's no need to do that on private woodlots because your in the settlements and at one time you didn't have to travel 30 miles or more to the next woodlot. You worked within 10 miles or less of home. When dad sold stumpage 20 years ago, the logger cut wood here for 3 years on the farm. This opened doors to access 4 other woodlots, so the guy never had to float the skidder for a few years. Then the logger retired. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

Logging used to be a trade, we were experienced woodsmen, feller, bucker, rubber tire operator, cat skinner, chocker setter, rigging man, boom man, and ect. These all had a meaning and you were recognized in the public for what name you held in the industry and dam proud of it. Nobody dresses like a logger anymore, i had nothing but plaid shirts and all my pants had buttons for suspenders.
If i wouldn't have got hurt i know i'd still be logging, it was all i knew and did.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

It's like farming, some fellas will do it until they drop. But my mother, was involved in the farm, and she said they were retiring and enjoy a few years doing other things. I'm taxiing them off to a bus trip come Monday morning. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

cutter88

25 years old cut and skid with a 2186 jonsered and an old 664 clarke and an old 205 tj and wouldnt do it any outher way ;)
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

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