Mantles

[jbjbuild]

I've got a cherry log that I want to get a few mantles out of. Is it best to box the pith when sawing for mantles or does it really matter. I would like to get a couple of 5" x 11"-12" x 8' pieces. The log is about 18" on the small end. If I need to box the pith I will only be able to get one mantle out of it since the log is only 9' long, which is ok, but if I can cut on either side of the pith I'll be able to get more than one.
Thanks,
Jeff

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I've never had a call for a Cherry Mantel.
I saw all my Cherry into lumber.

I always box the pith and saw them over sized.
Once they dry you can saw any twist out of them to your specs and they're just right.

[jbjbuild]

Thanks, I'll box the pith and get some lumber also. Good advise on cutting oversize.

[gdaddy01]

what does box the pith mean ? just trying to learn .

[jbjbuild]

It means to center the pith on the post, board or beam that is being sawed. Someone else can probably explain it better than me, but that is the general idea.

[doc henderson]

The pith is the term for the very center of the tree. the first 15 years (annular rings) of the tree growth is called juvenile wood.  It is not stable and tends to be one of a few types of wood that also shrinks lengthwise.  it will make the wood distort so you either exclude it, or put it in the center of a beam or post so it does not warp the lumber.



 

here is a cut through the pith and you can actually see the original tree with cut off branches in the center, the outer edges of the wood had rays as it is quarter-sawn.  the toes of my boots at the bottom of the pic as I am standing on the cant.

[doc henderson]

 

 



 

mantle with the pith centered.

[tule peak timber]

I seek the pith as a design feature in my hollow mantles.I also try to hog out wood to "raise " this feature. Said same for high end door panels. Lemonade from lemons...

 

[boardmaker]

Are those "rustic hammer" dents Rob? 

Either way, it looks good.
Never really thought about trying to squeeze tremendous value out of low grade.  Most concentrate on improving the higher grades...

[doc henderson]

I modified my prev. post to try to be more clear.  On the mantle you can see a dot in the very center (pith)of the tree/log/mantle.  there is lighter wood surrounding this that is the early tree, juvenile wood.  on end, this wood is usually cracked and is less stable than the heart wood surrounding it.  The outer sapwood is also less dense and can crack. If the pith is on the face of a board it tend to cup, and on edge shrink length ways and cause bow or side bend.  so in the center surrounded by more stable wood, it is less likely to do this.  If it is on the surface, it will crack like in the photo I am standing on.

[tule peak timber]

Light adze strikes, wire wheel , kutzall carving head,chisels, etc. Most of my mantles are built from a single piece of pith-cut 8/4 material resawn and folded around a chosen "end plug".

 Another low grade slab featured as the single "wobbly' door panel on the left. I like cracks !

 

[jbjbuild]

Excellent explanations on the pith Doc!

[doc henderson]

thanks, I was trying to be complete but then it seemed to make it more confusing.  Under extras there is also knowledge base and lumberjack lingo if that helps as well.  thanks to beenthere who PMed me to point out some verbiage that i corrected.

[WDH]

Cherry is one of the worst woods to crack at the pith. 

[Magicman]

I do not recall ever sawing a Cherry log that did not have "pith check".



 
If your cut list is lumber be sure to orient it so that the pith check is contained within a couple of boards.


 


 
Same cant as above before sawing through.


 
One of the pith boards.  If the cant is not oriented correctly every board will split apart and look like bananas.  :-\

[tule peak timber]

Man, what character !!

[WV Sawmiller]

   I box the pith on my cherry mantels but if the tree is big enough I'll cut another one or two on either side. I tell the customer they will continue to dry and that cherry is real bad to check but is one of my more popular mantels. I make mine mostly 3" but sometime 4" for stock and will custom cut anything they want. I have even cut curved front mantels where the butt log had a lot of sweep. I'd square off the back and leave the front live edge. The mantels ranged from about 7-8 inches on each end and were 12-13 inches in the center. One man had 2 fireplaces and bought the two I had ready at the time. I cut them 8-10 ft long and suggest they may want the extra length to make the corbels out of the same wood.

 It is strange but people won't bat an eye about paying $300 or so for an oak, cherry or walnut mantel but would scream bloody murder to pay that for a bench which was a lot more trouble to make.

  And people won't bat an eye about cracks and knotholes for a mantel but just call it character. Everybody has a different opinion how wide and thick they should be. I had a neighbor had me cut him 5 - 2"X12"X 10' ash mantels. He kept one and gave to each of his kids. I just charged him bf rate on them.

 I try to keep a wide assortment of woods as different people want different things. If I had them here I'd make 1-2 out of sweetgum, cyress, persimmon, etc. Right now I have walnut, cherry, ash, pine, maple, etc. Good luck.

[Magicman]

I have many pith flooring boards in the Cabin.



I see several here as it was being laid.

[jbjbuild]

Thanks everyone for all the great info!
Jeff

[jimparamedic]

Just an FYI the pith is why cherry tends to rot from the inside out.

[gdaddy01]

thanks very much for the education . I will go back to this often about the pith .

[moodnacreek]

Most trees don't have a pith, they have the heart or center. Walnut has a pith. I know in sawing it's all the same but why our all the traditional terms being changed?

[YellowHammer]

I've never sawn cherry into mantles because of the pith issue.  I may have to rethink that.  However, as I understand it, @tule peak timber is using "skins" and are you filling the cracks with epoxy or letting them stay open?

 

[Magicman]

Most trees don't have a pith, they have the heart or center. Walnut has a pith. I know in sawing it's all the same but why our all the traditional terms being changed?

Maybe all trees don't, but they did.  Everyone here may not be "educated", but we are all learning.   :P   I am still going to call it a pith rather than an xylem.

Pith is the tissue that is located in a plant's stem and roots. It is soft and spongy. New pith growth appears white but as it matures it usually turns brown.
The pith functions by transporting nutrients throughout the plant and storing nutrients within its cells. It is made up of distinctive parenchyma cells. The cells are large but have thin walls. The cells of the pith readily fill up with nutrients and water and swell.

Pith is often called medulla. Tree's have a pith when young but as the tree matures its pith transforms into the xylem. The pith in the middle of some plants often dries completely out so that the stem of the plant becomes hollow.
Vascular plants use the pith to successfully flow water up and down the stem and into the roots and leaves. Non-vascular plants such as mosses and algae have no pith.
The pith is very visible in citrus fruits where it appears as white spongy material.  In walnuts, the pith is the hardened chambers inside the shell that divides the nuts.

[WDH]

Mood,

There are three types of pith.  One is "continuous".  Just spongy white stuff.  Most trees have a continuous pith.  Sometimes very small.  Another is called "diaphrammed".  Looks like the spongy "continuous" pith, but there are little dividers at intervals.  This is distinctive of all the blackgums and tupelos.  Alos think about sugarcane.  Spongy white stuff that we suck the sugars out of divided by "dividers".  The last type is called "chambered".  Chambered piths have the dividers too, but all the white spongy stuff has dissolved away leaving open space between the dividers.  You see this in walnut with the distinctive black dividers.  Also think bamboo where you have open space between the dividers or culms.