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New Shed in the Works

Started by WV Sawmiller, February 14, 2020, 06:54:52 PM

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WV Sawmiller

  I know none of the rest of you have ever run out of storage space but first I built a 14'X62' pole barn. It filled up so I built shelves and went vertical. All of them filled up. I nailed a tarp to the end and that space is full of benches and the tarp is wearing out. I have stacks of lumber on blocks in the pasture with metal roofing on top and logs I have not sawed because no place to put them.

  I finally decided to build another shed/pole barn in my lower lot. I have to back off at least 10' from an overhead power line running from a transformer on a pole in my pasture across the creek and road to a neighbor's place. I bought a bunch of good used metal roofing in 11-18 ft lengths (total 180 running feet and 3' wide). I tried digging holes and setting poles there but it is tough digging due to the rocks and such. I got the 2 poles for the short end set then Wednesday I stopped and picked up my auger I bought with my used tractor 2 years ago. I spend a good bit of the day yesterday trying to free up the link to the PTO which I had removed from the head of the auger. I put it in a vice and used a pipe wrench got the 2 parts rotating but not sliding in and out freely. I think I moved it 6-8 inches. I used plenty of WD40 and got a can of PB Blaster rust remover last night and put it on today. I finally chained one end to the upright on my pole barn and the other to the ball hitch on my ATV and finally got it free. I soaked the female side good with rust remover and took my belt sander to the male section till it was shiny. I sprayed it and put them together and they worked freely. I drained and put 2 quarts of gear oil in the auger head and can likely use a little more. Found a 4" bolt to hold the 10" bit on the auger head and I was in business.

  I measured., marked drilled the other front corner 28" from the first and dug about 2' till impassable rock. I set that corner which was very solid then marked and dug the next hole about 28" and broke the bolt connecting my auger head and bit. I pulled the bit out with my FEL and set that pole which went up real well. If the weather permits and no major equipment problems I will drill and set the next/final front pole then I can mark and dig the back then middle poles.

  Looks like my internal dimensions will be 12' short end, 28' on the front, about 20' on the long end and whatever the diagonal on the back works out to be for my trapezoid shaped shed/barn. I will need 3 internal poles I figure on the wide end of the barn/shed and some spans up to 16-18 ft on the narrow end with 12-18 inch overhang. I figure 12'-13' height on the front and 10' or so on the back.  Then I'll start sawing some more long framing to fit the distances involved. Having a mill caused this problem but will solve it too. I figure I will use some of my metal roofing to help square things up when I start framing and putting on my nailers for my metal. That is faster and easier than figuring angles and such for me.


 One more pole for the front, the 3 corners are set. I'll probably have to move my that last stack of mostly 5/8" ash siding back against the fence. Odd shape lot, lots of rock and a couple feet in elevation change which is pretty flat for WV.

   Once built I will have to decide if I want to enclose it or not. I can't come forward more because of overhead power lines. I will store my benches and maybe prefab a bus stop or two to keep in here and fill in the rest of the space with mantels and LE slabs and such. This may be weeks to months before finished depending on weather and lake levels for fishing (Gotta keep priorities straight!).

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

brianJ

There are three immutable laws of sheds that are as immutable as Murphy's law.

First you have already discovered Law one is Sheds are never big enough.

Second law is go much longer because length is cheap sq footage as the end walls and and overhead doors are the expensive parts.

Third iaw is to go real high like 14 foot or more at the eaves because when you run into the space issue from law one you can put a lean to off the side for more cheap square footage

WV Sawmiller

   All three laws look right. Also it is good to go for longer overhangs which help protect the walls and makes it easier for making those lean to's.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

btulloh

Always good to be making progress on additional storage. I'm curious why you're making it a trapezoid.  Must be a good reason, but I missed it if it was in your post. 
HM126

WV Sawmiller

  I am making it Trapezoid to fit the lot space. The front is parallel to the power lines, the ends go back to the fence then angle along the wood line till I run out of usable space due to a rock bar and boulders at the upper end. Remember flat land in WV is at a premium and it often comes in small patches and odd shapes. Even this piece drops 2-3 ft in elevation on a 28' run. See the height difference between the poles on that front run. The height of my lowest pole is my limiting height factor unless I want to start stair stepping, which I also considered.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

btulloh

Roger.  Thanks for that explanation.  Making the best of the situation at hand.  Makes sense.
HM126

WV Sawmiller

   Yeah, my preference would have been a rectangle or square but I need all the space I can get even if it is a corner.

   BTW - did you know why many African huts were built round? Because they believe evil spirits are little men who hide in the corners. That is also one of the reasons they built their beds up high so the little men could not jump up while they were asleep. (I suspect snakes and bugs on the floor may have also influenced that decision which I heartily endorse. I know - a little off track but inquiring minds want to know. :D)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

btulloh

Good thing to know.  Maybe sawmill sheds should be round.  Then the evil spirits wouldn't raise the backstops just as I'm making a pass.   :D :D
HM126

Nebraska

Hmm I have a couple empty round grain bin slabs, so no evil spirits hmmm..maybe I should put my hay equipment in a round shed..... Nice start on your new one btw.

millwright

Looks good.  I have the same problem, have to build around the rocks. Most are too big to move

WV Sawmiller

   Put a carriage bolt in my auger bit and promptly broke that so went to local hardware store and bought a couple of 7/16" grade 8 bolts. Drilled 4 more holes but 2 were only a foot or so deep before I hit big rocks. I'll have to put the other poles up on either side so I can nail the framing up to hold the poles in place. The more I add the stronger it will get. I got the final corner installed. The back side will be 30'4" outside to outside and the long end is 22' outside to outside. I got one more pole installed on the back, moved a stack of wood, dropped it and had to restack it. The auger has a hard time in the rocks but is sure a lot easier than manually digging the holes. I need to saw some 2X12's to run the rafters across and grab a string and snap some lines. I snap a string the nail a short, scrap 2X4 or 2X6 at the mark as a shelf to rest the heavy framing on. It is a bear to get these big heavy poles and framing up by myself. The tractor and FEL and auger is a huge help but an extra set of hands would make life so much easier and faster just to hold a pole plumb or tamp it in while it is in position. Oh well, all 4 corners are up and a couple of line poles.


 Outside measurements now front 28'. lower end 12', upper end 22' and back 30'4". Low corner is 9'6" which will be max height of the back unless I decide to stair step the roof. I'll probably extend the roof 18" on all sides.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

This is gonna be cool when it's done! Around here we wouldn't hit any rock until we got at least an inch down. :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

OGH,

   I typically tell folks if you dig 6" and haven't hit a rock to immediately stop because you are over the gas or water line and somebody has already moved the rock that used to be there. :D I guess it is kind of like the guys who pour footers then build on that. Our footers are already there on you have to guess the depth before you find them. It sure makes it a challenge when you are thinking to dig down about 30" or so so the ground will hold your pole upright till you get it plumb and tamped.

   Years ago my FIL in Ala told my BIL who was building a big pole barn to just dig the holes, put the poles in place then the framing would square everything up as he installed it then to fill and tamp the dirt around the poles. Makes sense that should work. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

I used to live in a place where you could dig a 4' hole (by hand, with just a shovel) and would not have enough rocks to fill a gallon bucket, all nice round quartz rocks. But where I am now, well, not so much. I dug 3 holes 20 years ago to rebuild my attached porch for the 12" sono-tube. It took me 2 weeks in the evenings with a pick, shale bar, and small shovel. I got down 3' and hit shelf. I showed the building inspector. He laughed. He said drill a few holes, drop rebar in the shelf and pour your tubes. SO I did.
 I have a shelf under my place the is 2' above grade at the road edge and slopes to 4' below grade at the back edge of my property. It's all clay, bluestone, and shelf. Digging holes here is always the hardest and biggest part of any project. Don't ask what we had to do to put the 1,000 gallon septic tank in the yard. That was quite a deal which included two big track hoes (one with a hammer), a skid steer (which fell in the hole, but another story), and lots of dump loads. Basically the guy cut a square hole through the shelf about 12' deep. The leach field was another issue.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

   My son lives 10.3 miles up the road from me and his place sounds like you describe. He bought a pre-fab home they brought in and assembled on site. He was going to dig a basement about 8' below ground to set the house on so it would sit about ground level but he hit bedrock at about 2' so now you walk up about 6' of steps to get to his porch and enter his house. He occasionally has a large hardwood tree uproot and you see the roots went down about 2' then spread widely. They went to drill his well, hit water at about 30' but dug/drilled to 300' hoping for a bigger stream then gave up and use that 300' as his reservoir. I grew up in Fla where we had no rocks. If we dug a well we had to case it as we went or the sand and gravel would fill in behind you. Around here they typically do not case wells. Our biggest problem when digging a post hole  was there was not enough clay in the soil to get the clump to stay together so we could lift it out with the hole diggers. We had a family chain link fence business so I was pretty good at digging post holes. In fact my dad used to sign paperwork and put PhD at the end of his signature. When some one questioned him he told them he had earned it as he was a Post hole Digger. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

OK, one last little tid-bit, then I gotta hit the rack. Where I live is an old area, the stone industry dates back about 200 years and a lot of the bluestone that lined the city streets in New York came from here and specifically within a 10 mile circle of my house. The cobble stones, the bluestone that buildings were faced with and sidewalks were laid with. Bluestone mining and cutting is still an industry here, but much smaller. The road I live on was one of those where they transported the heavy stone boats (steel tired wagons) carrying the big slabs to the railroad depot in town (now underwater in the reservoir which feeds water to NYC ironically, they bought our stone, then took our water).  The road was paved with bluestone to handle the weight of the wagons and those wagons wore grooves in the bluestone 3" deep. Those slabs popped up here and there during different modern road projects. I have a piece on my front lawn. Most folks don't know what they are. My neighbors has one and he doesn't know what it is.
 Oh, and the road I live on, its called Stone Road. Had that name for a very long time. Everybody on this road with a couple of acres can pull either crushed stone or slabs out of their property without much effort.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Magicman

Since I am not building a shed, is it OK for me to get excited about your build??  ???  8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

   I am running into some shallow post holes due to mean rocks so decided I better start putting some framing up to hold everything in place. I checked and found several nice pine 2X12's 12' long that will work for my top plates but I either had to cut a 14' 2X6 to 12' or saw another to frame the short end and I'll need those longer boards for rafters and such later so I went and cut a stock ash log and got 6 2X6X12's and a couple of 2X4's out of it. Of course my busy body neighbor stopped by but he bought $50 worth of lumber and such so it was okay.

I started at the low corner and put up 2X12X12 as a top plate on the back run. My FEl would not reach that high so I put it as close as I could the used a 14' extension ladder to hold one end up nearly level then I drilled the plate and the upright with a 1/4" spade bit - I really need to find my 1/4" auger as it cuts a lot faster - then I nailed a couple of 6" (40d) nails/spikes into the upright then moved to the other upright and nailed it the same. Next I nailed the fresh cut 2X6 across the end using the same process so now I had one corner secured.

I measured and dug the next hole which yielded some respectable rocks but finally got about 18" before I hit a boulder. I lifted the pole with the FEL and was able to tamp enough dirt and rocks around it to hold it upright overnight, I hope. Turns out it is about 15' between the front and back so looks like I'm going to have to add another pole and an intermediate pole because of the distance. The more I work on this the more I feel like Sheriff Little Bill (Gene Hackman) in The Unforgiven. I should have filmed this and added this build to one of the TV self help/DIY series but I don't know if the comedy channel would accept it. ::)


 Nearly ran out of light before I got this picture. You can barely see the 2X6 tying the end together. All the poles on the front are in place and the one left of the stepladder I installed today and it is next in line for a top plate. I'll nail a short 2X4 to the corner post 2-3 ft above the 2X6 to determine to roof slope. I'll lift the next 2X12, tie or chain the corner, raise, level and nail to the new post. I could not locate my string level and may have to invest another $1.38 for another pair tomorrow if I do't find it then.

I have about decided to stair step the roof otherwise the height on the left side will only be about 6-7 ft high. The right side shown will be just under 10'.

If the picture looks a little skewed remember the back is not square with the front.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

   I had a few minutes this morning so I went out and put up another 12' 2X12 as a top plate for the front. I set it 30" higher than the back. I nailed a short 2X4 on the corner pole as a shelf, lifted the 2X12 up and set it on it and chained it in place. I went to nail the other end and almost pushed the shallow rooted pole over I installed last night so I had to straighten and nail a temporary brace to it. My FEL would not lift high enough so I ended up standing in it's bucket to work while I drilled and nailed the end to the pole. Then I moved to the corner and nailed it. I went to move my chain and found it had tightened when I lifted the 2X12 so I had to pull the cotter key from the hook bolt, take the hook off then reassemble it. I need to cut some more framing to brace the 15'6" span between the first line poles from front to back.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

stavebuyer

Most times an extra set of hands does not double the output. Rough framing is not one of those times.

WV Sawmiller

   At times like these another set of hands would likely triple or better the output and make things a whole lot easier and safer. Just climbing back up and down a ladder or tractor to get a tool you dropped or hold a pole upright where the hole is not deep enough to hold it up, etc. is labor intensive and time consuming. I have never tried to build on footers where every post/upright would have to be held in place until it was framed or temporarily braced in place. I like the idea of a barn building where the old timers got together and built a house or barn for a neighbor in a day. Of course that would mean I would have to have all the materials on hand and ready to use instead of running over to the sawmill, measuring/bucking a log to length and cutting the next set of framing or rafters or jumping on the ATV and running up in the woods and cutting another locust tree to get another pole. :D

  I really did love the scene in Witness where the Amish team got together and built a barn for the couple. My favorite scene was about sunset where they had all the timber framing up and people were standing and hammering while standing on the timbers.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

   My fat,now blue thanks to a mis-directed hammer strike, finger just ate my post. I hate it when that happens.

 I used my new 21' 2X6 as a temporary brace between the corner and 2 posts down on the back which allowed me to put in the final post on that back side even though the hole was only 12-14 inches deep and not deep enough to hold the post up. The temporary brace held it up till I could get a 12' 2X12 top plate nailed in holding the new post upright in place and stabilizing the corner which is also in a shallow hole.

 I changed my design, again, and decided to keep the roof one level instead of stair-stepping it. I now have top plates on both back corners and just need to cut a 10' 2X12 to go in the middle to tie the whole back together. The short end is tied together and I have the top plate on the front lower corner. I have my last stock 12' 2X12 which I thought was pine but turns out is ash (Did you know a 12' ash 2X12 even after air drying for a year is still heavy. So is that green 21' fresh cut as 2X6 I'm using as temporary bracing) leaning against the front and will install it next. After that I will install the last perimeter pole in the upper/wide end. It is 22' so even my new 21' bracing is not enough but while typing this I realized I can stretch a cable there as temporary bracing to hold the pole upright in a shallow hole till I can nail some permanent 2X6 bracing between them. Every piece added ties it together more makes it stronger.

 My back, upper corner will still be at least 7' high and the low side and I may even be able to dig some of that out with the FEL bucket before I put the internal uprights in place. The two remaining internal uprights will (Should?) be easy since I can us the 21' 2X6 to hold them centered and in place between the corresponding outside uprights. I'll pop a string to line up the centers. Should be fun. We will see.


 The 12' 2X12 leaning on the front is next to install then the end then I need to saw a couple more 10' 2X12's for the middle front and back top plates to tie the whole perimeter together, then two internal uprights on the wide/upper end, then rafters, strips and metal roofing. Then to decide if or how much siding to put on. There is 30" drop/slope between the front and back sides.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

thecfarm

I build alone. Not by choice. Try putting trim boards up alone on the eves of a roof. ::)   I just about do what you do. I go in the woods and cut down a tree, bring the log to the mill and saw it up.  ;D I put whatever lumber I want onto the loader arms, the rest gets stickered and put aside. Than I bring the tractor over to the build site and start to pound nails. Loader arms get emptied, back to the woods I go.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

When I did my building I didn't even have a FEL.  I survived by using "main force and awkwardness".  ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

   I built my first pole barn without a tractor or FEL too. I used my ATV and would attach a snatch block to a tree behind the shed and pull or winch the pole upright. Fortunately in that spot I was about to get some 30"+ holes dug that would keep the pole in the air. Once you get the first pole up then you can start using it to help support its siblings. I should correct that slightly. My son came down with his tractor and FEL and helped me lift the first 2 - 20.5' 2X12 top plates. All of the poles and everything else was backbreaking labor and jury rigging.


 
Here is that shed before I later added internal shelving. 62' long X 14' deep and 12' tall at the front.


 My pore old blue finger this morning. Ouch - do I qualify for a purple heart? (We used to irreverently refer to them as slow ribbons because the faster Marines avoided getting one ::).) I was nailing up a short 2X4 to an upright as a shelf to hold the top plate till I could secure it with a couple of 40d nails/spikes on each end.

  I lost my newly purchased string level and went out where I had split firewood and then to the shed site and finally found where I had dropped it. Then checked my mis-functioning chainsaw and found it was just a bad bar. I may be able to just replace the tip but I swapped the 24 with a 20 inch bar and tested it and it works fine. We have a retired teachers luncheon and I'll get back to the build this afternoon I hope.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

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