iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

WM (LT50) Debarker questions

Started by Old Greenhorn, October 08, 2021, 06:59:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

boonesyard

Quote from: Percy on October 14, 2021, 08:58:39 PM
After reading this thread, I thought Id show  how I overcame the same problem(s) many have with the debarker system on some Woodmizers.
The first video is one I made today and the second is from 2013 when I first came up with the idea. I was using a 12 volt compressor back then but now I use the house air supply which tensions my blade as well.

https://youtu.be/fX5zdwEDOM4

https://youtu.be/cFpxoOZRLUs
That is a great idea. 
LT50 wide
Riehl Steel Edger
iDRY Standard kiln
BMS 250/BMT 250
JD 4520 w/FEL
Cat TH255 Telehandler
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Old Greenhorn

Well a little follow-up here for future readers. I have yet to mess around with the blade rotation, but I have been working on my technique and have found that will diligence I can mostly keep the breaker from popping. I have gone entire days without it popping even once. However, the exception to this is on small logs where that top cut is often on a steep part of the log curve. For some reason this overloads it regularly. I vary technique constantly but this issue in consistent. One the larger logs where the blade is 'properly engaged' I have much better success. I just have to keep a close eye on it during it's travel length and adjust as I go. It's important not to engage the log 'hard', but rather to just make sure the blade is deep enough to do it's job and no more.
 AT this point I am quite sure the breaker is soft but we haven't gotten a replacement yet. In summary operator skill plays in here a lot, I think, but is not the only piece of the problem.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

   The last job I did I was thinking how well my debarker was working. I'd just barely kiss the logs and was constantly adjusting the swing in and out based on the log profile. They were mostly thick, dirty locust logs and the little debarker was earing its voltage. Then suddenly my debarker just stopped working. I checked the breaker and it was not tripped. I have broken the little wire feeding it in the past so took the plate off and checked that. The wire was okay and when I'd hit the forward button I'd hear the solenoid click but no spinning blade. I checked the blade and found the 2 set screws had loosened and the blade had dropped and it was wedging. I just slid it up and tightened it with an allen key but it slipped again so I used my 3/8" socket with the allen key attachment and was able to torque it enough it held. I just remembered it is riding a little high now cutting the groove just above the blade so I need to remember to adjust the height to match the blade.

    Bottom line/lesson learned - check those set screws in your debarker as part of your normal check list/service routine.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

barbender

OG, I may have said this already, sorry if I am repeating myself. My debarker is the old version, but if I am consistently popping the breaker I have to back of the spring preload on the tensioner arm. And yes, once they pop a few times they keep popping easier and easier. If mine is popping a lot, something is out of adjustment and needs investigated. My main problem is my 1/2 hp motor just doesn't have enough sauce to power those dull toothed negative rake blades in very deep.
Too many irons in the fire

Old Greenhorn

Howard, glad you figured it out. Surprised the breaker didn't pop when the blade bound up. These WM debarkers have so many versions and revisions just for the LT50 alone that I can't keep them all straight. The one on your mill I think is very different than on the mill I run and I don't recall any set screws of which you speak. I will take a look next time though but I think I am running a very different animal. This is a 2017 and I believe there were 2 separate major revision upgrades since this was first built. Plus, it's a wide version.
 Sure good to know though and good to pass along. These little things can drive a man to drink if your head isn't in the right place when they happen or if you don't look in exactly the right place at the right angle or misinterpret what you think you are seeing. If you are on a job and the sun is heading toward the horizon, and you want to get back on the road for your 2 hour drive home, and you still have 5 logs to go, things can get even worse. SO I am told anyway. 
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

   I don't know how else your blade would attach to the shaft of the debarker motor. The blade has a flat side and so does the shaft. Just line them up, slide the blade up and tighten the set screw(s). I bet you a lutefiske sandwich that is the way yours attaches too. ;D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Well I am still very confused by your description Howard. I don't know of this 'flat' you are talking about, its a round hole and the only flats are the sides of the blade body. This debarker has the blade held on by a single large bolt up through the center and a large flat washer. It may be your are talking about the set screws that hold the blade adaptor onto the motor shaft. I'll take some photos next time I am there. Regardless of how it turns out, you can keep your lutefisk (please).
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Stephen1

I installed the 1/2" blade on my Debarker along witha new breaker. Works great now. I like the larger grouve of the 1/2" blade. I find it works better but it ccold be it's just new and sharp.  :)
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

   Okay on the Lutefish sandwich. Yes I am talking about the blade adapter that fits on to the shaft of the motor. Those are the set screws that loosened in my case.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

I'll have to take a look when I am there next.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

terrifictimbersllc

Debarker blade bore has a flat on it that matches the end of the mandrel.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Old Greenhorn

Well Dennis, that doesn't sound like what we have. You made me get up from my cozy warm chair in a balmy 75° cave and go out to the shop and look at a blade I have on the bench for repair. This was the original blade that came on the LT50 debarker. For the life of me I remembered no flat or "D" hole in that blade and sure enough, this is how it looks:



 

 You really had me second guessing myself. After all my years fixing machinery I couldn't imagine that I had not made note of something like that, so I had to go look and see if my 'old-timers disease" was progressing. The replacement blade for this was the same way, round hole.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

LeeB

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on November 26, 2021, 10:36:23 AMHowever, the exception to this is on small logs where that top cut is often on a steep part of the log curve. For some reason this overloads it regularly.


Do you think maybe the blade is trying to climb up slope and binding?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Old Greenhorn

It could very well be the case. I am slow but persistent and keep watching this and studying it trying to figure it out. AT the moment, I am thinking this may be the case, but I am trying to figure out why. We are still considering flipping the blade and reversing the motor direction, this has worked for others (read back a a little).
 Also now thinking about MAYBE trying that 1/2" blade even though this is counter intuitive to me. I can't debate actual experience such as Stephen has. I am patient. I keep watching and learning and am well aware that I only have just under of a hundred hours running this mill so my skills are the first thing I question before I blame the equipment.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

 

Hard to see but the set screws are on the adapter to the debarker blade here.

Bottom view of my debarker blade attachment.

   If that is not what you have and I owe you a lutefish sandwich that you don't want come on down and I'll substitute a WV catfish sandwich instead. It does taste better than lutefish and actually is easier to come by. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

terrifictimbersllc

Apologies x3. I misspoke. It is the heavy washer that goes on underneath the blade that has the flat spot in it that matches the flat spot on the mandrel.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

I'm speaking of my 2001 LT 40 super, and 2019 LT 70 super debarkers. I have no idea what's on a 35. And if you didn't know there is a flat spot in the washer, there probably isn't one there any more anyway. :D :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Old Greenhorn

There may be a couple of flats there now. ;D :D Yeah, I don't recall on the bushing if I mess with it before the winter closes in I will take a better look. 
 Howard, the unit on the LT50 does not have that disc below the blade, it has a radial band that is part of the blade shroud. I froze my toes off all day but never got closer than 100' to the mill so I didn't have time to check in on all this stuff. Maybe tomorrow or Monday. It's getting cold which makes me just get the work done and get home.  The high for today was 38 and the average wind speed was 15mph. I never broke a sweat.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Stephen1

Another thing I found on my adjustment for my debarker is on saw head in front of me as i lean over to  look down the log. I can adjust the level of the dbarker as it runs down the log. If it is out by a tad in close it is out by a lot on large logs as the debarker swings out. It took me a while to find this problem, like a few hundred hours of sawing. Like a lot of  everything I do, it tends to be simple. I found it after reading an old post from Tom about adjusting band rollers on a WM and he mentioned A WM has 6 ways to adjust everything. lol I was looking at the mill sawing and the Debarker was all the way out when I noticed it had a bit of a tilt and then I saw the 2 adjustment right in front of my eyes. The frame holding the debarker to the saw head has 2 bolts which can be adjusted. It sure runs nice now and no breakers tripping, blade folows the debarker line.  
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

barbender

If your debarker blade is canted to the cut, it will definitely kick the breaker. Sometimes when changing a band I will place a small chunk of wood behind the debarker arm to pivot it out of my way a bit. Sometimes I also forget that piece of wood in there, and it takes a while to figure out the performance and breaker popping issues🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️😂
Too many irons in the fire

WV Sawmiller

   I got out today and adjusted my debarker height. I just put a blade on the saw then used the blade tilt tool that came with the mill and adjusted the debarker blade down till it was centered on that. The cut was tracking dead center in the debarker groove before the blade got loose.

   While I was at it I moved the little plastic connection to the hydraulics in just a fudge to get a better connection and less arcing. I'm tired of having to move the head forward or back an inch or so to get the hydraulics to work and I've sanded the spots off a couple times recently. It is so simple to move the little plastic connection over I should have done that long ago too.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Just a quick follow-up on this one. First, yes, there is a flat in the washer/spacer/bushing but not it the blade.

Second, I had some time over the weekend and flipped the blade and reversed the motor direction as several here, as well as WM advised. Now the blade spins so that it throws chips away from the operator. Yesterday I ave it a full test on both large and smaller logs. It worked pretty much like a dream. I onl tripped the breaker twice: Once was because it got nearly full wrapped in a knot/short stub and I would have expected an overload for that regardless, and the second time was at the far end of an 18' log where I couldn't see well and I think the log grew too fast and the blade pushed in too hard. Certainly this is a huge improvement. We have backup breakers on order and I plan a full alignment next time I get to mess with it. There may still be some heeling going on. Still it is hugely better.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

LeeB

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on December 14, 2021, 09:59:20 AMreversed the motor direction


Was that just a matter of reversing the wires at the motor?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

terrifictimbersllc

Watch out that the blade doesn't become unscrewed. You can get a reverse mandrel if it becomes a problem.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

LeeB

Good point. The current mandrel is left hand thread.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Thank You Sponsors!