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Skid steers

Started by Redhorseshoe, October 21, 2021, 11:09:38 PM

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YellowHammer

I heard the same thing, Kubota is coming out with a 120Hp.  I'd buy one...
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

711ac

Quote from: YellowHammer on August 31, 2022, 09:34:49 PM
I heard the same thing, Kubota is coming out with a 120Hp.  I'd buy one...
I've heard that here (I think by you) and I believe on another forum. My dealership is...
"I know nothing" 

YellowHammer

They are trying to compete against ASV as well as the other brands coming out with the bigger machines.  Got to keep up, that sort of thing.  

What is interesting is that they sell many more of the small frame CTL's, the 10,000 lb size, simply because they can be trailered on a conventional 14K trailer, instead of a gooseneck.  So they are much more attractive to rental and construction companies because they can be trailered by anyone, not a DOT or CDL driver.

I also understand that's the same thing with the mini excavators.  The number one selling Kubota mini is the KX40, which is a 10K lb machine.

I saw this little guy the other day, 10hp, and will fit inside a building doorway.  The dealer says he sells a lot of them.  I told my wife I'd get her one for emptying the cat litter box.  Two or three scoops and it would be empty, unless the cat had a big meal, then got may take 4 scoops. :D :D.



 

  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Old Greenhorn

My friend Bill has the bobcat version of that little guy. Everybody laughed when he got it (for a song), but you can haul that thing behind a car on a small trailer. His is getting used all over the dang place, because it is great for opening and replacing septic lines in back yards without ripping up the grass. Very handy for all those small repair jobs. Of course he has all the bigger ones too, but this is so handy to move and keeps his expenses way down on small jobs.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Tom King

I didn't know that little thing existed.  I have the perfect job for one coming up.  Thanks for posting!

newoodguy78

My BIL had a komatsu that size. He did very well putting in propane lines and digging up tanks. Like OG said the low impact it left on finished lawns and back yards made people seek him out. Everyone laughed at him for having it. Didn't bother him he was the one making the money. 

711ac

I'll take a shovel with a seat over one without anyday. 

Walnut Beast

All the little mini excavators that's what they are known for and do very well. Dig...

PoginyHill

Quote from: YellowHammer on September 19, 2022, 12:44:16 PMWhat is interesting is that they sell many more of the small frame CTL's, the 10,000 lb size, simply because they can be trailered on a conventional 14K trailer, instead of a gooseneck.  So they are much more attractive to rental and construction companies because they can be trailered by anyone, not a DOT or CDL driver.

Guess I need to edumacationing....I thought a CDL is required to trailer anything over 10k.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

Tom K

No, not necessarily. Your GCWR still needs to be over 26k. The wording is somewhat deceiving. This is how it was explained to me. It's the combination over 26k + trailer over 10k.

A truck with a GVW of 11k (modern 3/4 ton) with a 14k GVW trailer would not need a CDL since the GCWR is 25k

A truck with a GVW of 13k (modern 1 ton dually) with the same 14k GVW trailer would have a GCWR of 27k and would require a CDL. You would need a trailer under 13k GVW to be under CDL requirements. 

Pretty much any dual tandem trailer behind a newer 3/4 ton will put you over the CDL requirements. Obviously what you can and can't haul with that setup is usually up for debate since some see the truck manufacturers ratings as gospel and other see them as a suggestion.

I believe my '07 has a GVW of 9900, so I could have a 15,990 GVW trailer and my GVWR would be 25,890 so I would be under the CDL requirement. With a 7,000 truck weight and 4,800 lb trailer weight I could technically haul 11,800 lb and be "legal" CDL wise.  

bigblockyeti

It's also important to not muddy the waters by confusing GCW and GCWR as well as GVW and GVWR.  One is a measurement, one is a limit.

YellowHammer

So with a standard 14K non gooseneck trailer, as long as the trailer doesn't weigh more than 4,000 lbs which is what most rental places use, then a 10,000 lb Class skid steer, mini excavator or CTL will not overload it.  Also, since many 3/4 ton trucks are have a GVWR of 12,000 lbs or less, then the trailer can be hooked to it and magically the numerous add up to exactly 26,000 lbs or less and the guy renting the trailer and machine can drive away legal. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

KenMac

In Alabama if you use the trailer for personal use the weight rating of the trailer is not considered by law enforcement. My 20k gooseneck is perfectly legal behind my SRW Dodge 3500 with 12k weight rating. All of this is according to the nice folks at the St. Clair county Probate Judge's office. I made certain that was the case before buying the trailer. Braking is so much better with tandem dual axles. I am still careful to not overload the truck too badly. 
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

YellowHammer

I believe that is also true of farm equipment, the stickered weight rating is ignored, only the actual scale weight is used, and with farm equipment, there is a 10% margin.

However, (I only pull commercial so not sure of private laws) I believe that if the actual loaded weight of the combination is over 26,000 lbs, even for a private hauler, then that is a violation.  According to the Alabama DOT the only vehicles not required to have a CDL if even for private exceeding 26,000 lbs are military, farmers (as discussed), township or government workers, and lastly, private RV owners.

For rental equipment, at least to the rental guys I talk to, since the property is leased or rented and is not the private property of the renter, (hauler) and money has changed hands, then it is a commercial load, and the commercial exemption is not waived and the load must scale under 26,000 lbs to not require a CDL.  I think it gets a little fuzzy there, because I don't think a trooper would light up an average Joe hauling a 14,000 rented tract loader and  trailer behind his dually, but I do think they would hammer a commercial construction company dually pick up truck hauling the same load if the stickered weight ratings were exceeded.

I agree, a tandem dually gooseneck handles much better than a tandem single goose.

Unfortunately for me, my trucks are all used for hauling logs or lumber so require commercial insurance and therefore commercial plates, and I must abide by commercial or farm tag laws.  

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Tom K

Well, not to muddy the waters again, but I think it depends. The CDL requirements are Federal DOT regs, and the states can have their own rules. The Fed's only look at ratings, not actual loads or type of use. There are situations were you may comply with state reg's but not Federal.

This is all going by memory from years ago when I took my test. I don't have a dog in this fight as I have my class A, as long as I stay under 80k I have no worries.

Anything over a 5 ton track loader or mini starts to get tricky to haul with a 14k trailer, and also hard to stay out of CDL territory. Some people don't realize mini's are rated in metric "tons" so a 5 ton unit scales around 11,000-11,500, plus a thumb and a couple buckets and your pushing 12,500 pretty easy. 

To get back on topic, the same thing goes for track/skid loaders. I'm guessing the 100hp Kubota would weight 12k minimum. Add a bucket or grapple and there's no way your going to get that on a 14k trailer and be "legal"

711ac

It almost seems as "they" are perfectly happy with the fuzziness of the laws, particularly state to state. Makes me wonder about it being more of a revenue thing above all but the very worst safety issues.

YellowHammer

I agree, that's why the "homeowner" rental agencies, at least around here, won't even buy the bigger machines so they don't have to worry about the hauling issues.  They will top out with the 75 HP, small frame skid steers, and mini excavators, etc.  That's one reason I had to buy my 100 hp CTL kind of blind, there is a rental agency not more than a few miles down the road and I called to ask to rent one to try it out.  They said "it was too heavy" and they didn't even carry them, but they had a fleet of the smaller frame Kubota units.  Same thing with the minis, the largest they carry is the KX40 series, which is way too small for my needs.

I've been on the "list" for a new KX57, but it takes months, I think I'm now only five down on the list.  The KX57 excavator (12,000 lb class) list which is $85K, but I don't want to pay for the much larger KX80 (20,000 lb class) machine, which is about $40K more.  Lots more machine but lots more money.  I remember back in the day, there was so many machines available I could call, buy one, and have it delivered the next day.  Those days are gone....wait, wait, wait, wait for them to come to the dealer.

An interesting point, I sat in both the older model KX80-4 and the newer model KX57-5 and the smaller unit had an upgraded and bigger cab, and noticeably more foot space and such.  So from creature comfort, the smaller excavator had more room inside than the bigger one....       
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Walnut Beast

Definitely get hydraulic quick coupler and a thumb. Tooth bucket and ditch cleaning bucket. That's basically a flat wider bucket. That little 57 will be pretty handy! 

Tom King

I have a friend here who has a 65 ton lowboy with Farm Use tags on it.

Walnut Beast

Sucks! He really treated me great!! My dealer still isn't a dealer because of a new owner transition. So checking around!

 

 Thinking about getting into a new 135. Been doing some checking and between supply chain issues and used 120 demand I wouldn't be far off getting into a new one. New 135 Forestry are 145k and my 120 is 115 to 125k without winch I'm keeping to put on new one but need a few different hydraulic lines and probably a few extras. Dealers are in the drivers seat right now on their high horse wanting to suck every dime from you because of demand 😂. No way I'll have them sell my machine at 120k and they get 6% and I pay retail of 145k on new one. I doubt they will put the winch changeover for nothing. 

PoginyHill

Wait a few months. Demand will plummet and dealers will be offering deals again.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

barbender

Yeah I'm thinking a few months if patience could pay big dividends 
Too many irons in the fire

711ac

Quote from: PoginyHill on September 23, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Wait a few months. Demand will plummet and dealers will be offering deals again.
This is what I'm counting on also although I think it's a little farther away. 

Walnut Beast

They better enjoy it! All these cocky dealers and salesman are going to be on their knees one of these days then we will be the boys on the high horse!!!!!

customsawyer

It's going to get interesting. I've been predicting this same thing for a few years. It hasn't happened yet.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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