D&L Swing Blade mills (located in BC)

[MbfVA]

Obsessing on these things trying to make a decision on which one to buy, I came across D&L swing blade mills and cannot find any reference to them on this forum.  I searched D&L and D & L (forum search would not accept the latter).

Their 10 inch model looks competitive in price (starts under $15,000 with a 32 hp motor), and appears to be different from Peterson & Lucas.  Options are mentioned but no prices.  The web site is full of information but missing some usual things like options pricing, etc.

They  emphasize their use of off-the-shelf parts, kind of like cooks in the bandsaw world. There is mention of stainless steel and aluminum use, like Peterson mills.  Diesel is mentioned but there no particulars about it.

In general lots of things are mentioned but not elaborated on.

I noticed they also make an automated swing blade mill, but likely high cost since it's described as commercial.  I'm guessing it's competing with the Turbo Saw Gladiator line, etc.

Can anyone speak up as an owner, or with some knowledge/information?   Sometimes I feel like I'll be in a nursing home being fed before this is over with.

[TKehl]

They claim to be easily portable, but they don't look as easy to move as my Lucas and I can't find a setup/teardown video to tell how they do it.  If you plan to be stationary, it doesn't matter anyway.  Does seem like they offer higher HP than the others.

The 180° swing would be very nice. 

Do you plan to produce lumber or do you want a slabber?  Or both?

Since you are looking at all options, have you looked at a "Mobile Dimensional" mill?  More power and still pretty portable.

[sawguy21]

They were a FF sponsor but there were difficulties and were dropped. A very simple design with a lot of off the shelf parts which make maintenance easy but durability could be an issue.

[MbfVA]

Here is what I know or think I know or just think.

I also like the off-the-shelf parts aspect. But if we need "too many parts/too often", because of durability, the advantage's lost.  I am guessing a lot of their customer base is Canadian. The testimonials seem heavily weighted in that direction, so I am not optimistic at finding local folks to do demos.

A used mill we are considering has a slabber attachment.  We don't have many really huge trees, but having one will enable me to possibly take in some urban storm damage trees, particularly on site if portability is real--some slabbers report really high returns using the right kind of trees.  Given the 20 inch total limitation on a 10 inch swing blade mill, though that will cover most of our planned work, being without a backup bandsaw mill or slabber accessory to cut boards wider than 20 seems limiting.

Our old farmhouse has some most likely cedar or fancy pine boards from the 1780s, that are over 2 feet wide, as wainscoting.  Very rustic as is the house in general, not in any way fine.  Not cut with anything automated, that's for sure.

Portability seems to be in the eye of the beholder.  A Lucas owner told a friend of mine I should not count on it (I have not yet seen it), which surprised me since my research leans toward Lucas being one of the most portable, based partly on a couple of pretty matter of fact videos of them being moved on pickups.

D&L has a nice 12" hydraulic swing blade mill that weighs in over 4000 lbs, including a large Kubota diesel engine; now that is what I call some dubious "portability" unless it's left on its trailer.  $46K showing but I will ask about factory direct discounts.

D&L pricing on their 10 inch mill with a 32 hp engine (Kohler I think) starts under $15K, less even than the Lucas 10-30 (also with Kohler, a plus based on what I know and have been told, even over Honda).  Peterson and Turbo Saw look expensive by comparison, though the Turbo Saw 10 inch Warrior with automation seems competitive (they do show a misleading hp spec for the Honda engine, which to me seems light for the application).  Not meaning to hijack my own thread here.

I recall wondering how anyone could take the bigger Wood-Mizers or something like the cooks 7000 pound mill or the Timber King 2200 and up into the woods on a trailer or even into an urban area (not to mention the SSL or excavator to go with it, needed to move the logs to at least the loader arms).

There is an implication, definitely not clarified or elaborated on, that the D&L swing blade teeth are replaceable without welding, since they include some sort of wrench for that purpose.  My soon to arrive SSL attachment tree saw has turnable & replaceable teeth proffered as good for 500 hours, with only an allen wrench required, so I ordered replacement teeth with the machine.  Of course the kerf on it is tre-big, around half inch or so--it also works as a stump grinder.

Looked at Mobile Dimensions on line.  Multi blade seems to be a big feature.  The descriptions & features seem elaborate, implying pricey, but the site has no prices.  I'll certainly write for more information.

There is almost no uniformity amongst sawmill websites, with some of them downright stingy with information, others with errors, contradictions, really & truly boring & unhelpful videos, videos not linked to the products on a given page, zero pricing info, no accessory/feature details, you name it.  Some are great and others have good stuff for prospects but that require lots of digging.  Sigh.

What happened with D&L and the forum, anything relevant to their business or some sort of conflict with the forum/owner(s)?

It concerns me that no D&L customer has come in on my thread, but I don't want to overlook a promising product just because it is not high volume.  The whole portable sawmill thing is hardly high volume relative to most products, so I can imagine niche producers and products would not be unusual.

Peterson, Lucas and Turbo Saw seem to make the most noise in the  swing blade world, I get that, with TS struggling a bit to get up with the first 2. It's pretty obvious that there's no love lost in spite of the family connections among 2 of them, kind of ugly stories floating around there.

The band saw rep I have been talking to immediately told me he heard about someone having their elbow cut off by a swing blade when I mentioned we were looking at them now.

I just showed a house we have for rent to a guy who said he did prototype testing for the LT70 Super (knows Marty Parsons of WM, small world here).  When I mentioned we were looking at swing blade mills, his first reaction was "they are too slow".  Of course he owns 2 Wood-Mizer and a Frick.

Topping it off, surprise, all the swing blade sellers run each other down.  The fact of many changes in distributor relationships is concerning.

Filtering, discrimination and judgment needed, for sure. I am getting the feeling it will be easy to make a mistake buying our first mill.

Thanks for the comments & opinions.  I am also hoping an actual D&L user or 2 is on this forum.  I could've sworn someone chimed in about them in another thread about buying swing mills in general.  Got to give up on editing and adding to this, post and run.

[NZJake]

Hi MbfVa,

Our website lists the Honda GX690 as both net 22hp and gross 28hp. What's unfair is if some companies state it as 28hp leaving other manufacturers with the only option of following (hence why we list both classifications). Don't think misleading is correct.

The GX690 is Honda's largest option available. It's a great reliable motor. If someone wants to put their own motor on our mills that's available. But Honda I think compliments our equipment.

If you want more power look at the Diesel 24hp (net) option. Lots of power there. Or even the 46hp option!

[NZJake]

Just some other points... I know it's going to be hard to convince some of you. But it's not all about hp. In my opinion based on my experience it's more about the technology behind the sawmill.

I remember when I was in my 20s I had a neat little mill fitted with a 10hp diesel motor. That little mill gave me the best production (push mill). It was light to push-up and down the log all day. Later I put a 30hp Daihatsu engine on it thinking that this was going to be my ticket to higher production! Unfortunately I discovered it takes a lot more energy to move the saw back and forth. Every start and stop when your pushing is critical. That's where your energy goes. I couldn't beat the little 10hp version sawing the same dimension timbers.

So I'm pretty convinced if you want real production look at the mill design over simply a big motor.

How do you get your logs in and out? How do you remove your timber (especially considering heavy blocks). Reducing body movement is critical for a productive day.

[Mt406]

I sent you a p.m. give me a call this evening if it works for you

[TKehl]

I'll say at my place, it's easier to bring the log to the mill unless it's HUGE.  So not that portable, but pretty easy all considered.  I could see the bigger Lucas mills being a touch harder based on weight.

As far as equipment on portable jobs.  It'd be nice, but winches and can't hooks can get a lot done when you are talking an urban log.  That goes for band or swing mills.  Speed is less important when you are only talking a couple logs. 

I hear you on wide boards with a swinger.  I plan to add a manual bandmill for this.  I have an old camper trailer to transport the mill with the 20' rails, but still light enough to pull with a minivan.  I could pull either with my 4 wheeler or baby Kubota.    Had thought about putting a roof rack on my suburban for the rails, but KISS made me simplify plans.   :D 

The small swing+ slabber+ small bandmill combo seems like it will work for me.  Altogether cost less than a large swing mill and easy resale if I want to upgrade.  Alternate is a bandmill and dual chainsaw slabbing mill on an Alaskan type frame.  Might go that way if I was starting out fresh today. 

[MbfVA]

I'm guessing the larger kerf on the slabber would push you to use the band mill on more valuable wood or projects with more boards being cut?

[Ianab]

I'm guessing the larger kerf on the slabber would push you to use the band mill on more valuable wood or projects with more boards being cut?

Small, logs the band saw wins hands down for slabbing, with lower kerf and faster cutting. But small band saws max out around 30" inches or so. They maybe can cut a ~36" log, but you have to whittle it down a bit, flipping it a few times during the first cuts before you can simply slice it up. OK with hydraulics, pain in the behind on a manual mill.

Woodmizer make a larger band mill that can saw around 5ft dia, but it's neither cheap nor portable. So you also need a way to transport and load a multi-ton log onto the mill. Becomes a pretty big machinery investment.

Where as you can buy a Swing blade mill that's completely portable, and add a chainsaw slabber to it for a couple of thousand $, and haul the whole rig to a 4 or 5 ft dia log on a pickup, and break it down into manageable slabs or boards.

Now if you never see a log that maxes out your band saw, then it's no big deal. Band saw will do what you need. But if you are getting into over-size logs, like urban trees, and logs that modern commercial mills don't want to mess with? Now the big log capacity, the portability and general versatility of the swing blade + slabber kicks in. If you can only have one mill, then the swinger can still cut small logs, but not with any real advantage over a manual band-mill.

[NZJake]

I would tend to disagree. A bandsaw doesn't necessarily win hands down over a swingmill milling small logs...

1) kerf is significantly less of a factor. You will get roughly the same amount of boards.
2) you 'still' don't have to re-handle and re-edge.
3) if it's urgonomics that's at question raise your support bunks used with with alloy dogs.
4) swingmill fitted with narrow kerf will produce significantly Less drag associated with the bottom slab.

Ian - you have a point for slabbing. Although you would consider a debarking attachment for band life. Bandsaw draws in grit.

Small logs are a pain regardless of machine design.

[TKehl]

I'm guessing the larger kerf on the slabber would push you to use the band mill on more valuable wood or projects with more boards being cut?

Speed (versus the slabber) is more of a consideration than anything else.  Most of the logs are free, so not too worried about kerf, but it does cross my mind.

Basically if want regular lumber -> swing milling.  Wide lumber (or curved logs) -> bandmill.  Too wide (>36") or heavy for bandmill ->slabber.  Too wide for slabber (hasn't happened yet) -> dual chainsaws on Alaskan type setup. 

Like Ianab says, the swinger will do everything with few drawbacks, which is why I started there.  Adding a band and/or XL slabber just adds to capabilities to get the best tool for the job.

I'm aiming at funky custom furniture and figured wood more than production though so YMMV.  A lot of my wood is urban, curved, stuff the loggers leave behind, TSI, fence row trees, and trees from our forest.  Stuff most people consider firewood.   ;D

In the end, knowing what you want to produce can be a guide in determining what tool is best suited for the job.

[MbfVA]

Decision process done.  Bought one!

I came back early this am from visiting a really nice family in OH & buying Barry's Peterson WPF mill, electric winch, slabber attachment, Hi-Lo frame, etc.  I offloaded everything but the head carriage today, but my very high loading height Ford Super Duty made loading and now unloading that nearly 600 lb item a non-standard affair.  It works much better with a normal height bed (like my Chev 2500--why do I have 2 trucks you ask?  So does wife), but it will transport even better with my lower loading height aluminum trailer.  I'll start a new thread when I get this thing fully on the ground and connected.

The seller spent about 2 hours sawing up a nice though a bit crooked poplar log, with me helping, pulling pushing and lots of tailing (poplar is HEAVY, esp when full cut), into 2x4s, 1x4s, and at my request, a double cut 2x20 board, all flawless and with some nice circular saw criss-cross marks.

My newly formed opinion of eastern OH folks is very good.  Frankly, I have not found anyone on this forum or anyone I have met regarding forestry (and Ag) items for sale whom I would not want as a neighbor.  What a community!

Got to find some neighborhood beef for help de-trucking the head (anyone live near enough to zip 23102? 😏).  Wife is in Orlando at Info-Comm this week, good choice on her part.  Fathers Day coming at our restaurant, oh my.

To everyone who contributed to this thread who informed me and helped me decide, I want to say thank you.  A particular thank you to everyone connected to Peterson including Left Coast and Chuck Almany, a former rep for Peterson who lives not so far away, and to the two people who spent four hours total on the phone with me talking about their swing blade mills/brands and experiences with them.  Wes and Scott, take a bow.

[TKehl]

Congrats! 

How rollable is the last section?  I can push mine around like a wheelbarrow, but not familiar with the Peterson. 

I was thinking if you put the rear end in a ditch, it would lower the height significantly.  May make sense to go from truck in ditch to trailer so you can put it where you want.

[MbfVA]

It seems rollable, but that engine is heavy.  Big wheelbarrow.

The principal problem seems to be the height of my truck. Ezra Newick of Peterson also recommended using topo to effectively reduce the height.  I'm likely going with our trailer since in a ditch, might stay there....

I have a Polaris that could likely pull its way out straight up, but not that 7000# Ford.

It's a learning process.  I came close on the Lucas but this used one knocked down some of the price difference.  Their loading and unloading video was very truck specific and very real-time, but on re-viewing the Peterson video, it involves a fairly low trailer.

My long term concern after using the mill with the seller is the amount of effort to pull that 600# head through hardwoods.  I had to lean to pull or push it along, not bad when it's cool and nice and not doing it all day, good exercise, too, but production milling???  Their ASM model or one of those nice hydraulic band mills might start calling out to me.  Maybe even the Turbo Saw with its autofeed features.  It even flips the saw head in the middle of the process.

I liked the potential of the hydraulic log handling on the D&L automated mill, but after speaking with owners, I would want to know a lot more before making an investment there.

One thing that worries me about any automated mill is losing the feel I get with my hands doing the pull/push.  I noticed the value of this when I tried out the Norwood HD36, but I was only pushing through cedar in that demo, which does not tax one's resources as much.  The poplar we milled on Sunday was a tougher bird, and I expect to encounter some old tough maples, oaks, or worse if I make a relationship with local tree services.

Maybe the HD36 is especially well balanced, too?  It was super smooth and easy, even considering the lighter wood.  The owner who gave me the demo has a friend with a Lucas, so I am hopeful we 3 can get together for a mini-shootout.

My seller wants me to come back to this year's big shootout since it is not that far from his home in OH.  I think he misses his mill already, but an accident after he bought it has slowed him down.

[Savannahdan]

Know what it feels like to miss the mill.  I had to sell a Cook's MP-32 earlier this year.  Even though it was manual, other than forward/reverse & up/down, the mill always did an outstanding job.  My wife asked if I missed it just after it was taken by it's new owner.  That's when it really settled in.  But, life goes on.

[MbfVA]

 When I get into using this machine, I'd love to compare notes with you (and others), since you have a Lucas of the same size.

[TKehl]

I know what you mean about the truck in the Lucas video.  I was going to outfit the Suburban with a rack etc.  Ended up settling on a trailer to move the mill.  Length is the issue, but a used camper frame is just right for a long and lightweight trailer to move the mill.  May still build the Suburban rack, but it's way back burner at this point.

For automation, I think a dash of more HP would overcome the need to feel the wood.   :D 

[MbfVA]

 I think TKehl just expressed a Tim Taylor sentiment: grunt GRUNT more power!

[Dennis Penton]

Obsessing on these things trying to make a decision on which one to buy, I came across D&L swing blade mills and cannot find any reference to them on this forum.  I searched D&L and D & L (forum search would not accept the latter).

Their 10 inch model looks competitive in price (starts under $15,000 with a 32 hp motor), and appears to be different from Peterson & Lucas.  Options are mentioned but no prices.  The web site is full of information but missing some usual things like options pricing, etc.

They  emphasize their use of off-the-shelf parts, kind of like cooks in the bandsaw world. There is mention of stainless steel and aluminum use, like Peterson mills.  Diesel is mentioned but there no particulars about it.

In general lots of things are mentioned but not elaborated on.

I noticed they also make an automated swing blade mill, but likely high cost since it's described as commercial.  I'm guessing it's competing with the Turbo Saw Gladiator line, etc.

Can anyone speak up as an owner, or with some knowledge/information?   Sometimes I feel like I'll be in a nursing home being fed before this is over with.

I own one of the D and L mills. Great points. The mill is easy to work on. It cuts great lumber. It is easy to get parts for. It is NOT highly portable. It needs to be on solid level ground or a slab and the carriage is heavy to move . i love mine but they like all mills do some things better than others.

[Wysefork]

 Dennis how long does it take to set your mill up?