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Started by Phorester, January 07, 2009, 09:11:39 AM

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Phorester

A couple new things in the last couple months.  Also trying out pictures with my new digital camera.

First, an old crosscut saw.  Wish I had taken a "before" picture.  Typical old saw with a brown very rusty and pitted blade, missing screws, paint missing from the handle, etc.  Took a belt sander to the blade. I am amazed at how well it turned out. Should've put more time in with the blade, but I wanted to get done.





After restoring it, I cut out the boards behind the saw from an old log with it.   ;D





Spice rack I made for one of my wife's Christmas presents.




WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thedeeredude

Nice saw and spice rack.  Any idea what brand the saw is?

Phorester

Looks like a Crowell.......   ;D





Actually....., I don't know the brand.  The maker's medallion was missing and there was only an undersized screw and square nut in the hole, so I substituted the washer with my name and the year I refurbished it.  For the handle, I just scraped off the remaining paint, sanded, and put on linseed oil. There was only one original handle screw left, so I used stove bolts, flat washers followed by a lock washer, and regular hex nuts.  Probably would be murder on your hands if you actually used it, but I can't find these two-piece saw handle fastners anywhere.

The long handle on the other end looks to be just a large wooden dowel.  I expect the original was broken and somebody stuck in the dowel to replace it.  They used a couple of mis-matched big nuts for spacers to tighten up the bracket on that end, so I just re-used them. 

I was dissappointed that so many original parts were missing.  But since somebody took the time to replace these, I suspect this was a needed and often used tool around a farm somewhere and they used what spare parts they could find to keep it in working order.  Not a historically correct saw anymore, but it looks good hanging in my shop.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: Phorester on January 07, 2009, 09:11:39 AMWish I had taken a "before" picture.   . . .

Nice job on the saw (and spice rack too). Let's make a trade. I will take a picture of my two-man crosscut saw in the "before" state, as I'm sure yours looked similar, and you tell me how you git yours looking so good so I can do the same to mine. Deal? :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

SwampDonkey

That's a great job on the saw, only there is a part missing. The round handle on the top edge of the saw. The tooth looks like a "Champion Tooth". Possibly a design from Simonds Saw and Steel Company.

[Source: A.E. Wackerman, Reprint 2002, Harvesting Timber Crops] This book was first published in the 40's I think.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Phorester


Correct, Swamp.  There's a hole just in front of the front handle about 2 inches from the top edge.  I suspect a bracket for a round handle went there, probably one that wrapped around the blade between two teeth and came up to it for strength.  There's also a hole drilled in the other end of the saw about the same relation to the back handle.  I suspect the end handle bracket that's on it now is not an original, but a replacement that didn't fit the pre-drilled hole.

SwampDonkey

I believe that far end hole was used to hang the saw.

As to the hole in front of the existing handle, the bracket didn't extend down to the teeth.

Your handle looks like it could be original, the form is the same as I see for Simonds Saw.

Often they used apple wood for handles.


Don't take me as an expert here, I don't know as much about that saw as you do. Certainly not more. :D

If a fellow had access to old USDA bulletins, specifically Farmer's Bulletin of 1907 there is info in there I think.

This old book is great to look back on what was used in the woods in my grandfather's day. You know, a lot of these tools are still used in Asia and other parts of the world. Amazing! :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Phorester

[Edit;  okay, just so you know, every time I type in a sanding Dave Shepard brand grit, "Dave Shepard brand" automatically pops up.  (See?) Tried editing it out, but it keeps re-appearing when I post. ]

Kevin, here's how I cleaned up this saw and also 3 or 4 regular carpenter saws.  No secrets here, just lots of elbow grease.  I don't know if this method is appropriate for historical restoration.  But for just making a saw look nice, and/or to get one back into good working order it works like a charm.

I take off all handles and hardware, then clamp the blade flat to my workbench.  I use a belt sander with 80 Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit paper to take off all the rust.  BUT....., first check the blade carefully to see if there is engraving (very old carpenter saws) or painted labels (newer saws), you have to decide if you want to keep that or not.  If so, I just leave that spot on the blade and work around it.  It will make the saw look bad from a distance with the unsanded spots, but personally I keep these intact if they are at all readable.  You can lightly hand-sand engraved areas with a fine Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit if you want, but they will completely dissappear in a few seconds with a belt sander. As you can imagine, even light sanding will remove painted labels.  Paint will even come off with a vigrous rubbing with a plain cloth.  This particular saw was extremely rusty with deep pitting and it took at least one solid hour of sanding to get both sides compeletely rust free. Most of the pitting was removed in this step.

After all rust is removed, I use 220 Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit in a 4" x 4" hand-held sanding pad.  You can do this very quickly, and I think much quicker than with a motorized sander.  I just use full arm swings with both hands on the sanding block.  Took about 15 minutes on each side.  After this I could almost see my face in the reflection.  These old saws have very good steel in them.

I then go down to 600 Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit wet-or-dry in the hand-held block.  Another 15 minutes or so on each side and they will be smooth as glass.  I didn't do this step on this saw because I simply had other things to do and was spending too much time on it.  There are blemishes left on the blade I think this final sanding would have removed.

I then wax both sides with car wax.  This will make the saw so slick you will have trouble holding onto the blade.  It keeps it from future rusting, and for a working saw it will also glide much smoother through wood with the wax coating than without it.

I scrap remaining paint off the handles, sand, and either repaint or put on linseed oil, which is what I did with this saw.

I clean up the hardware with a wire wheel on a bench grinder, oil the screw threads and reassemble, which is the satisfying part of the whole job.

Took probably 8 - 10 hours all together on this saw over a couple of days.

I doubt the particular sanding Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grits are important except for the final sanding. I just think you have to graduate downard from coarse to very fine. I'd hesitate to go below 80 on the first sanding.  I would be afraid that a coarser Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit would leave scratches in the blade too deep to get out easily with more sanding.  I really think you should use an extremely fine Dave Shepard brand Dave Shepard brand grit for the final.  Very fine steel wool should also work, 00 or 000. This is how the saw will shine like new.

Keep in mind that if there is any factory coating applied to the saw blade, sanding like I do will completely remove it down to bare steel.

TexasTimbers

Phorester,

Thank you for that highly detailed explanation. I wasn't meaning to cause you carpal tunnel. If you knew me, I was hoping you were going to say you found this incredible product that you poured on it and presto! New saw.  :D

I'll get in touch with Dave Shepard and get some of that special sandpaper.  :)

I will also snap a before picture of my saw. In fact, I imagine our experiences will be quite different. My before picture won't be that long in coming as I know right where the saw it, sitting up on one of the the top most purlins in my shop. It's my "after" picture that will be a while in coming.  ;D

Thanks again though, I will tackle it on a rainy day.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

TexasTimbers


Phorester, just now getting around to this, but was your saw of the same general patina as this?




In case you wanted to see the saw itself I also uploaded a full view.



The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Phorester

Yep, looked the same.

By the way, the narrow saws such as yours were for felling trees.  Being narrow they were less likely to pinch in a standing tree.  The wide saws were for bucking logs. Trying to buck a log with a narrow saw is not easy, they tend to bend and pinch much easier than the wide ones.  Keep that in mind if you ever enter a sawing contest with one of these.  ;D

I've also done some looking around on the Internet in the last few days for refurbishing these old saws.  There's an electrolysis method that can be used to remove the rust.  Don't know how well it does compared to sanding,  but it's probably less destructive to the saw than sanding.  Easy to find this info if you Google.

Enjoy your project.  And of course we'll need pictures of the finished saw..............

Radar67

I've used the electrolyisis system on old planes and block/tackles. It works very well. It does not remove anything but the rust, no metal damage either. Well, it removes paint too... ::)

Here is one of the planes I used it on.

"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Stephen1

Quote from: Radar67 on January 20, 2009, 12:04:50 PM
I've used the electrolyisis system on old planes and block/tackles. It works very well. It does not remove anything but the rust, no metal damage either. Well, it removes paint too... ::)

Here is one of the planes I used it on.



How does electrolysis work and is available to the general public.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Radar67

Stephen, here is a post where I detail the process I use.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,32181.msg466417.html#msg466417

There is also other posts there you may want to read.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

thedeeredude

I've never done electrolysis but I read you don't want to use stainless steel for electrodes, creates some kind of hazardous material.  Here's a link I looked up   http://www.antique-engines.com/stainless-steel-electrodes.htm

Phorester

Very nice looking plane, Radar.  I'd rather spend time to restore an old tool than buy a new one. 

Once my wife complained that I was spending too much time on these old tools and she wished that I'd get on with fixing things around the house. I said that this meant that I'd also rather restore her than get a new wife. For some reason she didn't sense the huge amount of love that had poured forth from me toward her in that statement. About like the reaction I got when I gave her a new wheelbarrow for her birthday. Might need to expand that old doghouse in the yard after all.  Just as soon as I get the rust off that old brace & bit.

Dan_Shade

see, that's why i'm not married, I do stupid things like that early in the courtship!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

TexasTimbers

Dan, you just ain't hanging out at the right places. For guys like us, finding the right mate is a matter of identifying the proper hunting grounds.

Forget the grocery store and the library. You gotta hang out at the hardware store, the nursery (not the kind with babies but the kind with plants), and take a vo-tech course like welding etc. Hang around the bait shop.

Women in these kinds of places ain't gonna gripe at ya for fixin the wheelbarrow. They're more likely to back-hand ya across the cheek for not fixing it right. ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

WDH

I can see it now, Dan is gonna get him a welding woman :).  That way, she can keep the mill in tip top condition.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Phorester


There's a couple of women I know that can keep up with us men in the workshop and in the woods, maybe outdo some of us.

We have a lady logger in my area, I think I've mentioned her in this forum before.  I'd guess she's in her 40's now.  She's been working in the woods with her Dad since she was a teenager.  Can run chainsaws, loaders, skidders, tandem truck, etc.  Has the company now since her Dad died last spring.  A 2 - 3 person outfit.

The other lady works for the NRCS in an adjoining county that I temporarily covered last year. She has her own woodworking tools to make signs with routed letters, makes all sorts of wooden exhibits for programs, etc. Amazing what she can turn out.


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