920 JOHNSERED SAW

mike_belben · December 25, 2021, 10:28:08 AM

Thanks for the history.

It seemed to me the open transfers was the only thing that made them cheaper to manufacturer than a 72cc. If i remember right all sorts of top end parts swapped around from 61, 66, 268, 72, 272. It been ten years and i cant recall anymore.. I had a few index cards thatre long gone after the move.

mike_belben · December 25, 2021, 10:36:05 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on December 23, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
spike this sounds about like trying to sort out autocars from whites gmcs and volvos!

i personally feel like i can see the husky 61 as the root of the 372-395. like they all morphed out of the 61s bosom. the SBC of orange saws. i havent run one in a while but had fun building a few.

No editing, just bolding. Im not making any claims to know. Its just what seemed reasonable to me to conclude by taking junk apart long after half the folks on the assembly lines were probably in the grave. I dont think what i said was out of line or unreasonable but thanks for the quick correction.

Spike60 · December 25, 2021, 10:39:05 AM

You guys don't stop arguing, there ain't gonna be any presents for either of ya.

Most chassis all had a first model to hit the market when they were introduced. 1100 was the first of what became the 2100/2101/298 family.

On the 61 family, first one out of the gate was the 162SE; definitely a pro saw. Followed shortly by the 61. 1977/1978? This chassis went up tio 1997 when the 272 and 670 Champ finished their runs and were replaced by the 372/2171 chassis.

To me it never works too well when trying to use today's pro/homeowner yardstick to measure saws from 40 years ago. On the funny side, everybody gets insulted when their saw is called a homeowner saw. And a lotta guys just don't get it if they state that a 365 isn't a pro saw but the 372 is, when they share 99% of their parts. Some say it about the 565 and will probably say it about the 585 when it comes out cause it doesn't have an XP label on it.

Way back when didn't homeowner mean the saws that you'd buy at K-Mart? Husky and stihl used terms like Rancher and Farm Boss and such that are still being used, but those early saws can't possibly be thrown in with what are today called homeowner saws. They sure make a lot of junk today though. 235's and MS170 type stuff are what has taken over for the low end market these days. But the upper end of their plastic case saws are pretty decent.

What was driving this years ago was simply an attempt to spawn several models from a common chassis and save some engineering costs while filling out the catelog with different models at different price points. On the Jonsered trio, the catelog would say the 625 was great for firewood, the 630 was great for pulpwood cutters, and the 670 was great for timber fallers. They gotta stick something in there along side the pictures, right?

Wouldn't see that on the big cube saws of course, cause it'd be kind of silly to come out with some kind of 99cc Homeowner Saw on the the 2100 chassis. But there'd be more parts out there for sure. What is the legal requirement for supporting a product? 10 years? After that a company looks at the business case to continue parts support. If the demand is there, then why not fill it? "They just want to sell you a new saw" doesn't apply to folks running the parts departments. But what usually happens is they sell out the parts for however long the inventory lasts, often way more than 10 years. But when it dries up, the party's over.

Hope everybody has a great Christmas today.

Real1shepherd · December 25, 2021, 10:39:48 AM

What I read was: ".....i can see the husky 61 as the root of the 372-395."

Just trying to clarify, not argue.

Kevin

Real1shepherd · December 25, 2021, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: Spike60 on December 25, 2021, 10:39:05 AM
You guys don't stop arguing, there ain't gonna be any presents for either of ya.

Most chassis all had a first model to hit the market when they were introduced. 1100 was the first of what became the 2100/2101/298 family.

On the 61 family, first one out of the gate was the 162SE; definitely a pro saw. Followed shortly by the 61. 1977/1978? This chassis went up tio 1997 when the 272 and 670 Champ finished their runs and were replaced by the 372/2171 chassis.

To me it never works too well when trying to use today's pro/homeowner yardstick to measure saws from 40 years ago. On the funny side, everybody gets insulted when their saw is called a homeowner saw. And a lotta guys just don't get it if they state that a 365 isn't a pro saw but the 372 is, when they share 99% of their parts. Some say it about the 565 and will probably say it about the 585 when it comes out cause it doesn't have an XP label on it.

Way back when didn't homeowner mean the saws that you'd buy at K-Mart? Husky and stihl used terms like Rancher and Farm Boss and such that are still being used, but those early saws can't possibly be thrown in with what are today called homeowner saws. They sure make a lot of junk today though. 235's and MS170 type stuff are what has taken over for the low end market these days. But the upper end of their plastic case saws are pretty decent.

What was driving this years ago was simply an attempt to spawn several models from a common chassis and save some engineering costs while filling out the catelog with different models at different price points. On the Jonsered trio, the catelog would say the 625 was great for firewood, the 630 was great for pulpwood cutters, and the 670 was great for timber fallers. They gotta stick something in there along side the pictures, right?

Wouldn't see that on the big cube saws of course, cause it'd be kind of silly to come out with some kind of 99cc Homeowner Saw on the the 2100 chassis. But there'd be more parts out there for sure. What is the legal requirement for supporting a product? 10 years? After that a company looks at the business case to continue parts support. If the demand is there, then why not fill it? "They just want to sell you a new saw" doesn't apply to folks running the parts departments. But what usually happens is they sell out the parts for however long the inventory lasts, often way more than 10 years. But when it dries up, the party's over.

Hope everybody has a great Christmas today.

Husky and Jonsereds were classic about 'stretching' their pro saw/use designations. Like the 49sp....that venerable design is considered by most to be a 'pro saw', but it really wasn't. Ran and held up like one though...great design. Versus the 621 which was truly built(and priced) like a tank/pro saw. Like you said, a lot of it was just advertising/marketing.

I always considered the Husky 298 a 'homeowner saw'....lol. To this day, I have no idea what they were thinking when they made that beast. No manual oiler and a cheap recoil assembly.....everything else a 2100.

The legal requirement for auto parts in the US used to be about 15yrs? I'm not sure there was anything required for chainsaws......seemed to me more or less an honor system. In reality, Electrolux Group AB probably back then looked at parts sales and the bean counters decided.

Kevin

mike_belben · December 25, 2021, 10:55:53 AM

Quote from: Spike60 on December 25, 2021, 10:39:05 AM
You guys don't stop arguing, there ain't gonna be any presents for either of ya.
.

Too late already got mine. Heated socks and walkie talkies so i can tell the gopher what to fetch me next and keep mileage off the socks! ;D
Merry Christmas gents

Al_Smith · December 25, 2021, 11:03:11 AM

I don't have a horse in this race so first I'll first just say Merry Christmas .That said no matter where you are on the internet there is always an "expert " albeit not all are authoritarian in their presentation .So then you have a choice either ignore it or use the actual ignore function then you don't have to listen to it .I've exercised that last option on many places .I have seen so many web forums go to the dogs when they just turn into a place to argue and I would not take a party in having this one do the same .However with Jeff at the helm I'd bet a dollar to a donut that will never happen . ;)

HolmenTree · December 25, 2021, 03:48:41 PM

Merry Christmas everyone!
Two saws that originally became the biggest development for today's saws.
The 61.5cc Husqvarna 162SE introduced in Sweden and Finland 1975.
The 68cc Stihl 042 in 1976.

Al_Smith · December 25, 2021, 08:27:07 PM

While I only own a few Husqvarnas ,281,2100CD plus two trim saws I think 235 or something like that .I do however have one 042,two 048 ,one 038 av and two 038 magnums and one 028 Stihls .They all share the same design and from my perspective are good solidly built dependable saws as are the Husky's .
It may be a point of debate but from my perspective saws of about the same displacement will have about the same amount of power no matter who made them .That said from a collector/ restores stand point the less popular brands in this day and age are much more difficult to find the parts for . Most of the "brand loyalty " thing is like the Ford Chevy thing .Goes on forever .

Spike60 · December 26, 2021, 08:51:35 AM

@HolmenTree ; was hoping you'd jump in here Willard.

I guess the deal about some markets seeing a saw a couple years before others isn't all that new, right? (2 more weeks til the 592's arrive) I suppose in order to say a saw was a big improvement, you have to look at what preceeded it. For the 162, that would be the 163/263 and their 77cc brothers the 180/280/380? Most of these saws are ultra rare around here. I have a nice 280, clean 480, and a good A77, but it has to be 25 years since I've seen either of the 62cc saws. I like that 280; nice power in a compact package, (for it's day). But that's just me playing on the firewood pile 50 years later. Not the same as being "in the game" and forming an opinion when the saws were current models and seeing large numbers of them in pro use as these saws preceed my involvment in the industry.

You on the other hand, if I've done the math right, were running saws when these models were current.

That makes you the only one here who may have some real world experience with these saws. Not like I'm trying to make you feel old, cause I'm 2 years older than you.

Confusing amount of models back then due to updates, different ignitions and such. Today they probably wouldn't be given completey different model numbers. The basic chassis endured for a long time, but some of the model numbers were only around 3-5 years, making each one all the more rare.
???

HolmenTree · December 26, 2021, 05:15:08 PM

Thanks Bob you made many good points there.
,
The Husqvarna 162 was the very first of the modern saw design we have today. The older 163 was still quite ancient compared to the 162.

The Stihl 042 introduced after the 162 was as ancient as the the 163 as the photos show with the fuel /oil caps within the same tank.

It wasn't until about 1980 when the 61cc 038AV was introduced with the more modern design with separate tanks.
First pic 1974 Husqvarna 163
2nd pic 1976/'77 Stihl 042
3rd pic 1975/'76 Husqvarna 162SG with heated handles.

HolmenTree · December 26, 2021, 05:27:19 PM

Advertisement from September 1976

HolmenTree · December 26, 2021, 05:56:02 PM

And it was interesting that Jonsereds used separate front and rear oil/fuel tanks in the 1970's but designed to them together in the 1980's, then later separated them again.

outinthewood · December 26, 2021, 07:03:49 PM

Interesting points about how models are designated / described, Spike makes good point about the 565 which I'm sure gained the Pro tag after it was introduced to market ? the 585 was launched with that tag from go and as I've been running one for over 2 months now it is without doubt a pro saw so it makes me wonder at the marketing logic of the non "XP" tag, the cost is not so removed from the 592 XP . I had a 592 delivered a couple of days ago so interested to see the XP difference ?

Spike60 · December 27, 2021, 09:30:15 AM

The saws are so similar these days that the XP's could almost be called the "factory modified" version. Price spreads vary in different markets, but I've found a $100 spread to be where the junior model will start to move.

Willard, there's a none too subtle message in that 1976 ad for the 162. Bit of a shot across the bow at Jonsered and Partner.

That fluids in the crankcase thing went back and forth but Jonsered seemed to hang on to it the longest. The 2054/2055 used it up until the late 90's. Oxidation/corrosion in the fuel tank was the common worry with most of them. On the Husky side they saw some value in getting the fluids out of the case and away from the heat. But then realized that the heat was actually beneficial for the bar oil, so back in the case it went in future designs.

Thanks for the pic of the 163 from 1974; the year I graduated high school.

mike_belben · December 27, 2021, 10:12:01 AM

Well there is a big source of my misinformedness. Thats a word right?

The oldest two huskys ive encountered were a 45 and a 61. And from there the numbers all went up but i never had anything in the 1xx range. It went from xx to 2xx to 3xx for me so i just assumed ot was like bobcats number system. The series then the size.

I have no idea why husky started with 1xx then went to xx then to 2xx

I never knew there was a 162 and dont see why they went backwards in number to a 61. If im understanding it right. Ive never seen a saw timeline pictorial so its just what ive tried to piece together in my head #1 and theyre just tools so i dont really care that much #2. If the thing runs i will use it someday.

Corley5 · December 27, 2021, 11:23:04 AM

Let's not forget the Husky 65 and 77

Al_Smith · December 27, 2021, 01:44:36 PM

Husqvarna dates back to the middle ages .Of course before chainsaws were even thought of .Imagine that from arms and armor for mounted knights to sewing machines ,chainsaws and heaven only knows how many other items .
In this market the players have changed .What used to be Homelite and McCulloch is now Husqvarna and Stihl for the most part .Others such as Poulan ,J-Red, Partner ,Pioneer ,Dolmar became absorbed by others .The great mystery of attempting to restore some of these brands is finding the parts that might work in place of OEM .It's rather challenging at times to say the least .