Identify large circular saw blade tips

[Timberjack5]

 

 

[Timberjack5]

 

 This photo is the tooth holder with the tooth removed 

[Timberjack5]

 

 Tooth

[Timberjack5]

 

 Tooth pic showing flat edge on shank

[Timberjack5]

 

 Tooth showing opposite side ( flat side of shank facing down )

[BargeMonkey]

 I dont know the conversion rate but I think the tooth profile is LONG outdated especially for a slasher saw. I've got the same simonds saw that Maine logger posted, it takes a beating and that a 4" insert tooth that's firmly held in the saw, those "teeth" on your saw are pinned on the end of the shank buddy I think your just getting into a mountain of problems 

[Timberjack5]

Barge monkey, appreciate your comments thanks.
I had a look at a video of the slasher saw because i didn't who what it was, yeah looks mighty. I decided to buy these 2 saws because it was a much smaller investment to get me up and running if I just use one saw for a donor to the other. If later I need to buy a Simonds saw that will be ok. The spindle size on these is 52mm, do you know what your spindle size is ?
There may be a possibility that the Quadco insert holder and teeth could fit so that's my next follow up.

[BargeMonkey]

I'm not trying to knock it believe me I'm the king of cheap. The tooth spacing and shoulder spacing look wide, those saws dont look like a true "slasher saw" to me. Maybe in softwood, but your saying "hardwood" and buddy it just beats them to death if your in the bigger stuff all day. I will measure the tooth spacing and count, I want to say my 54" has 42x teeth, just your tooth spacing looks so far apart for a 60" saw. 

[Timberjack5]

Yeah ok, I'm hearing you. Since I don't know what these saws were designed for, maybe they were for breaking down ( ripping ) . Most of my experience is breaking down / ripping. My Dad and I built a swingsaw when I was a lot younger, it's 2 wheels that are height adjustable, powered by a 4cyl Volkswagen engine, motor one end, saw the other. I've really only ever used chainsaws for cross cutting.

[BargeMonkey]

My Bells has a 4.4 Acert, 120hp, it takes every ounce of power at 2200 rpm standing on its nose drooling to run that processor and conveyor, I've seen a few guys talk 30hp to run a circle saw and it's not possible. Yeah just something about the tooth spacing and profile looks way off, too far apart for a slasher saw. No one else has seen those bits down there? They look simple to change but again hardwood it doesnt take much to shear a small pin. Simonds teeth are 8.00 each ? The tool for the rivets is handy, I can basically change a tooth about every 2 mins in and out if they aren't bound in, really the only way to go with a slasher saw that I know of. 

[Timberjack5]

 

 Photo of swingsaw, I have a big blade that also goes on it, cutting fence posts in this picture but often used for breaking down logs before they go on the saw bench. They were mostly home built and sleeper cutters used them to cut railway sleepers. My dad has been passed on for 4 years so this old machine has a lot of sentimental value as we mostly built it from scraps with a fair bit of lathe work.

[Timberjack5]

I'm listening Barge

[Timberjack5]

 

 

[mike_belben]

Timberjack.. It looks like a god awful dangerous idea but i love the home made saw and the time it gave you bonding with the ol.  May he rest in peace amen

[Timberjack5]

Thanks Mike, the saw pulls towards the operater however as long as the saw is set and sharpened properly they are really not anywhere near as dangerous as it looks, I have added a kill switch that I have to keep my hand on to keep the motor running, it's pretty easy to bog that motor to a stall, the saw is meant to go up and down as it moves forward. 
The job in the photos, I had 300 posts to cut out of yellow box, it's notorious to blunten chainsaws, started the job with a 395 husky but was not getting 10 posts and then it was a major sharpen so I got the swing saw out and the radial blade handled it no worries ( no carbide ) just a brush once a day with the barstard file.

[Timberjack5]

Barge, I've measured the teeth distance, they are 4 and 3/4 inches apart, there is 40 teeth around the 60 inch saw. Also they are offset, one to the left one to the right conseqitively which I believe is easier on horsepower however I'm hearing you about the slasher saw and the small pins on these. Nothing ventured nothing gained, let's see where the outcomes go.

[moodnacreek]

TJ5, Those photos really show what you have. The gullets and tooth spacing are rip style but the teeth have no hook so it has to be cross cut.  The rust appears light with out pitting. If so those plates could be cut down, at a loss of diameter, and retoothed  to a current style. And of course the saws could be used until the teeth are gone. And as stated your teeth could be rebuilt. There are shops that do this type of work.  

[Timberjack5]

Moodnacreek, thanks again for your reply. I don't know of anyone using or supplying those Simonds teeth here in Australia. I like the look of them and they are well priced. Also I don't know of a shop here that would tackle the job however I believe I can do it myself. It wouldn't be easy and would be time consuming but I reckon I can successfully get it done.
Do you think it would work ok if I did not reduce the saw size, just remove the current tooth holders and cut the angled and bevelled cavity to match the Simonds slasher teeth?

[moodnacreek]

I suppose if the gage is the same they could be cut in. Is sounds like a job for a milling machine and a large index wheel of some kind. Also those teeth may be out there some where.

[Timberjack5]

Yes it would be good to get hold of a bucket of those teeth. 

[mike_belben]

Youd need to build a fairly simple fixture to hold the saw to a basic knee mill so that the diameter of the saw clears the column of the mill. But i do wonder if the saws are hardened.  I could picture that being a very loud, obnoxious operation if they are.  

And forget about any small thread tapping operations if it is hard.  Would need annealing first.  If that happens who knows what distortion and subsequent necessity to hammer it back may occur.  I guess im saying its a job maybe best for a pro saw shop.  You could spend a lot of money hiring a non-saw specific machine shop to retool it and possibly still result in a mediocre outcome.

Im Polish. I try to repurpose everything as cheap as possible and have a love affair with hot chips and weld spatter, but ya cant win em all. 

[mike_belben]

Take a hand file to a gullet and see if it shaves chips like soft mild steel or just grazes over without removing metal.  If its hard, carbide and slow removal are your only option other than plasma/waterjet/lazer and grinding but those are specialty operations with specialty labor rates. 

[Timberjack5]

Mike, very good advice, I'm hearing you and you have confirmed a lot of thought tangents that I've had plus you've added a few that I haven't considered. You're right, the next step is the hardness test to see what I'm dealing with.
How do they make those Simonds blanks so cheap ? .

[Timberjack5]

Assuming that the saw is hardened. The Simonds kodiak style tooth slides into the saw on a double bevel all the way round with a hole for the locating rivet therefore no need for a thread.
To do a retrofit in an elementary necessity style I was thinking of marking out the whole saw then working on creating the radius where the back of the Simonds tooth rests. To do this I would drill a small pilot hole or just centre pop and then possibly use a magnetic drill
( rotabroach ) to create a hole the size of the pointy part of the bevel, then use a hardened rotary tool to mill out the bevel ( countersink ) from each side, this part is perhaps best done on a mill which I do have access to however it could be done with a countersinking tool on a large electric hand drill or bench press drill using a stopper.
Next drill the holes for rivet locators. All this could be done with fluid applied to keep any heating low.
Then lay the saw on table and make the straight cuts with a 1mm cutting disc on a 5 inch grinder but work around the saw very small steps to prevent heating, then with a grinding wheel, very carefully working around the saw, grind in the double bevel using a Simonds tooth to individually fit each cutout.
Is saw tension going to become an issue at this point, it would be better to be able to make the cuts and bevel without heat, one at a time and fit each new Simons tooth before going on to the next cut.
This is my current thinking on how I would do it with the most minimum gear to keep heat low so as to not create distortion. Labour intensive and skilled but I believe possible.
Am I missing something ? I'm keen to hear the Polish answer.

[mike_belben]

.  


The poslky in me says theres no way im buying inserts.  Im laboring to make money, not spend it.  I will study the saw tooth angles before the invention of inserts, replicate it and run it.  Building back with hardface as needed.  


Man made a lot of lumber before carbide came along.  And did a lot of business before the internet.  The old way can still work, it just comes at a cost.  

Filing $5 breaker points or replacing $400 integrated coil rails.  Maybe the old way wasnt terrible after all.  ;D