Hydraulic hose's.

[BargeMonkey]

Wondering how many of you guys are doing hoses yourself. I've been talking about buying a set up for a while and now I'm really serious, but like anything I always look around before I jump.  :D. Any tips or suggestions ? Nearest place for me to get a hose done is 20+ miles either direction, and good luck sometimes. Looking at a parker machine that does up to 1-1/4, but I doubt I even do alot of 1" stuff, mostly 1/2".

[starmac]

Just thinking, but have you thought about just keeping hose and reusable aeroquip ends on hand, at least a few of the most popular ones?

[North River Energy]

I have free access to a Gates pc707.  Friend got it cheap on account of broken solder joints on the digital display.  Fairly straightforward once you get it calibrated, and I've crimped non-Gates fittings to good effect (most manuf. will provide their final crimp diameter). Will do both two-piece and one-piece fittings.
This comes in handy when those random assortment of fittings show up on Craigslist for next to nothing.

The one minor issue is the need for two different compression cones, as one will do straight and angled fittings, but only up to 3/4.  1" and up requires a second cone. I think it's a $100 inconvenience.
Don't recall if it's rated for 4 wire...
Even if most of your hose is 1/2, the extra capacity is nice if you want to do suction line with crimped ends, rather than hose barb.

[BargeMonkey]

 I've never used to many of the reusable ends before, just something I don't know much about. We have had some on the boat for making a fuel line in a pinch but that's about it. My local dealer keeps trying to sell me a package, I've held off because I had a friend with a machine and hose but that's come to an end. 90% of my stuff is JIC or pipe, little bit of o-ring and our powerscreen stuff is metric. I just like asking questions on here because most of you guys have been down this road.  :D. Morradian hydraulic is about 1hr to either store for me, which basically kills the day, because it's never the easy hose. I'm getting to the point machine wise where I think it's cheaper, but again that's why I ask around. I've got 6 months left on the boat and I'm hanging it up for good, so getting my ducks in a row.

[starmac]

I have used the reusable ends for years (aeroquip) I don't need them a lot, but have over the years saved quite a few, so now have a pretty good selection of standard sizes.
There will always be those, even with a kit, that will require an end you don't have.
I do feel your pain, where I haul logs from is 2 hours just back to the pavement, so a bad hose is basically a day in downtime by the time it is all said and done, especially if it comes about late in the evening.

[Loghauler86]

A hose machine with the equipment you have or plan to have would be the wisest move you could make. We bought a parker machine years ago and it quickly paid for itself. I like Parker's crimping machine due to its simplicity. Also for you, you Timbco has parker hoses which makes it nice too. I couldn't imagine working without a hose machine.

[deastman]

I have a Parker hose machine setup and it works great. One rig I've got is all metric BSPP and Parker has all the fittings for it. I looked at a lot of different crimpers before I went with Parker and their hose and fittings work great.

[BargeMonkey]

 Thanks, that's what I was hoping to hear. I've been looking at a Parker machine that does up to 1-1/4. 4 places within 20 miles each direction that do hose, but it's a good chance you get their and they don't have an end. I have had to do a few hoses on my timbco and I just head for Albany anymore. What are the most common fittings you guys are keeping on hand ? With me being home fulltime shortly I'm going to start doing hoses for people, and other good suggestions? 

[pineywoods]

I'm slowly converting everything to pipe thread with adapters where needed.  I keep just a few lengths of hose with pipe fittings, the adapters are re-usable. Surplus center stocks just about any kind of adapter.

[scsmith42]

I have a Parker portable hose crimper.  The pro's are that I can repair a hose on a machine if needed, and have the flexibility to repair and make hoses myself.

The drawback is the investment in the fittings required.  I have equipment from Cat, JD, Dresser, Ford, Baker, New Holland, etc, and it seems as if they all use different styles of fittings.  About half the time I still need to make a run to a local industrial supply to either purchase fittings or simply have them make the hose up.

Any more, I watch e-bay for deals on fittings that I know will work with my equipment and then buy 10 pieces at a time.

If you have fewer machines and can standardize on a few different fitting types and sizes, it will make things easier.

[Loghauler86]

We started with 1/4-1" male and female JIC and pipe. We now stock 3/8-3/4" flat face strait, 45 and 90 degree for john deere and the Timbco. We have amassed quite a collection now. The fittings are a large investment but between the cost savings and time savings it well worth the investment.

[BargeMonkey]

 Ive been looking and pricing stuff, I don't think 10k in hose and fittings goes that far, especially with the bigger stuff. I'm going to get JIC, Pipe and flat face and see how it goes, morradian said if I call before 3 pm I can have it delivered before 9am next day, or have anyone we know stop on their way home from Albany. We really don't have alot of hose trouble, maybe buy 30 a yr, but I think it's a good investment. We have a mixture of equipment, but I see more Cat stuff showing up when I'm home fulltime, how Nortrax hasn't gotten ran out yet I don't understand.

[Jhenderson]

I guess you made up your mind but I'll offer this; $1,000 buys a lot of hose and reusable fittings. Particularly if the majority of your stuff is pipe or jic. I've had a lot of factory crimps leak. Never had a properly built reusable leak. Maybe that's why the aircraft industry ( think Aeroquip) doesn't crimp fittings, they're all 2 piece. Not to mention I repair my ruptured hoses at the stump. I don't even bother to go to the landing. A sharp axe and an oak stump cut hose faster and as clean as a chop saw. My2cts. Maybe worth less than that.

[BargeMonkey]

I guess you made up your mind but I'll offer this; $1,000 buys a lot of hose and reusable fittings. Particularly if the majority of your stuff is pipe or jic. I've had a lot of factory crimps leak. Never had a properly built reusable leak. Maybe that's why the aircraft industry ( think Aeroquip) doesn't crimp fittings, they're all 2 piece. Not to mention I repair my ruptured hoses at the stump. I don't even bother to go to the landing. A sharp axe and an oak stump cut hose faster and as clean as a chop saw. My2cts. Maybe worth less than that.

I'm not knocking your opinion, that's why I'm on here asking.  ;) I've only really used crimped fittings, kind of a what you know thing. I enjoy the FF so much because it is a small world, but I ask alot of questions and everyone on here has been down the road before.

[starmac]

Never tried cutting a hyd hose with an axe, but bet it works. Stump repairs would be easily done, but a vice sure is nice on stubborn ones. lol

You are correct about the fittings, I have never seen one leak at the fitting, the hose had to go bad,one way or the other, and I have seen many crimped fittings leak, mostly new, probably defective crimps.

[Ken]

I have a Gates machine at the shop.   We are fortunate that the local suppliers will give you a crimper provided you buy x amount of hoses and fittings/year from them.   The key to hose trouble is to identify the hoses that usually give you trouble and have a spare made up and on site.  It costs a lot of money to keep all fittings in stock but  you can usually identify the ones that are most common.

[BargeMonkey]

 My forwarder and log truck are really the only 2 that I consistently change hoses on, and I keep 7-8 hoses under the seat in my truck.  :D
I'm putting up a country store / gas station, and I think once word got out I was doing hoses I would do 20-30 a week. Alot of the weekenders up here have machines, and 99% of them don't know where to go for a hose, that's the big reason behind me jumping for a hose machine, I get what I need for myself, and they pay the outrageous cost for the convenience.  ;D.  Hose machine is cheap, sitting here on the boat doing the math on a newer tractor and used tank trailer, going to pay someone the first yr and that's it, @ .05 cents a gal I could finally justify a real decent tractor.

[starmac]

Smart move to have someone else to haul your fuel for a year or so, till you get an idea of your average volume.
Check real serious what insurance is going to cost you to haul your own, if you can even get someone to cover you.
I know guys that were set up hauling their own fuel that mothballed their tankers when insurance requirements changed a few years back.

[teakwood]

 You will have the hose machine for you own use and also will have paying customers?! sounds like a no brainer to me

[coxy]

a few weeks ago I got a1/2x 30in long hose with to female ends and it was 62$ and they charge 7$ a piece to crimp the ends BargeMonkey you should be able to get you money back in no time  ;D  I looked weather head crimper last year that was real cheap the guy was going out of biz but never made the jump

[BargeMonkey]

 Found 2 complete packages for sale used, going to compare that to morradian's package and probably jump when I get home. Only problem is 1 is 3phase, which isn't a huge problem but a bigger headache if I set it up at my sawmill. My dad and i have talked about it for 10+ yrs, but never could justify it. Like anything I ask lots of questions before I jump, we don't part with money very easily.  :D

[coxy]

Barge  your saying your so tight you squeeze a nickel till the buffalo craps :D :D :D :D :D

[BargeMonkey]

 ;)  my family invented copper wire by stretching a penny.  :D.  Lost the engine in my 2001 ranger pickup last saturday, had looked at a newer duramax service truck the day before but said no because I hadn't squeezed every ounce of life out of my little truck. Won't blink at buying a newer machine but a new truck, HA.  :D

[CTL logger]

I've had a gates 707 for 15 years bought it used when I had tri axle trucks with loaders I used it all the time. Now with the processor/forwarder I use it a lot less but when you need it you can make any hose.  The gates 4 wire fittings are 2 piece if you take a zip wheel and chisel you can cut off the outer collar pull the fitting out of the hose put a new collar on and crimp. I've saved a pile of money the last 5 years on 1 inch 4 wire fittings. I've never had one come apart after reusing the fitting.

[Ken]

  The gates 4 wire fittings are 2 piece if you take a zip wheel and chisel you can cut off the outer collar pull the fitting out of the hose put a new collar on and crimp. I've saved a pile of money the last 5 years on 1 inch 4 wire fittings. I've never had one come apart after reusing the fitting.

Good point CTL logger.  I too only use 4 wire hoses and reuse the fitting part several times.  Those larger ones are very expensive and they are quite reusable.  Also, if a crimped hose is built properly there is no reason for them to leak or blow apart.  Years ago when we were running some older cable skidders it was common to repair hoses in the woods an axe, hardwood stump and reusable fittings.   I don't think I would like to try that with possibility of contaminating a very expensive hydraulic system with pieces of steel and rubber which inevitably gets severed when cutting the end and not having some air there to blow out the crud.

[1270d]

We always have the guys blow a "cork" through the new hoses after they are made.   They are soft foam ear plug looking things a little bigger than the ID of the hose.   I think some should be surprised at the junk that comes out.   Hydraulic system.s are too expensive on this stuff to mess around with dirty parts.

[CTL logger]

I told the one shop I sometimes buy hose and fittings from about reusing the fittings and they told me it would never work and never stay together. It's never been a problem if you check the crimp everytime, I also buy non gates hose they said that won't work either but it's all sae standard size hose. They just don't like me shopping elsewhere. 

[BargeMonkey]

I like the idea of the reusable ends, I'm a fan of saving as much as I can when I can. I'm leery of doing it for customers, another local guy is in the middle of a lawsuit over a hose end coming off and spraying someone, I don't know all the particulars but I want to avoid trouble at all cost. The city guy who gets a hose made at 7pm on a Saturday is going to pay dearly anyway, already see what it's going to cost to sit on the stuff.  Waiting to hear but looks like I'm headed to CT when I get home, guy has just what I'm looking for, with some fittings. Right before christmas CASH goes alot further.

[whitepine2]

   I want to say don't mix and match hose,only use the hose that is afford by the manufacturer of the machine. If it's for yourself that's one thing but with the lawyers if you are selling be warned (DON"T DO IT). It is bad enough when you do things right things can go wrong. When setting up the press you will need to mic. the flange until it's right on the money too much no good,too little no good could be trouble then if you mix and match only God knows. I have a weather head system,started with hydrowflex system many years ago when working at hydraulic shop. Like said for yourself it's up to you I do stuff for me and friends and will mix like a return low pressure line but it's under my control. Yes it will cost $$$$ to get set up best to buy in bulk hose and ends and just get what you will need the most common sizes ends are dear and can cost as much as the hose you will make that being said there is nothing like making up a line in 15-20 min. and back to work,well worth the investment.
            Just be careful and use common sense my 2 cents   

[snowstorm]

   I want to say don't mix and match hose,only use the hose that is afford by the manufacturer of the machine. If it's for yourself that's one thing but with the lawyers if you are selling be warned (DON"T DO IT). It is bad enough when you do things right things can go wrong. When setting up the press you will need to mic. the flange until it's right on the money too much no good,too little no good could be trouble then if you mix and match only God knows. I have a weather head system,started with hydrowflex system many years ago when working at hydraulic shop. Like said for yourself it's up to you I do stuff for me and friends and will mix like a return low pressure line but it's under my control. Yes it will cost $$$$ to get set up best to buy in bulk hose and ends and just get what you will need the most common sizes ends are dear and can cost as much as the hose you will make that being said there is nothing like making up a line in 15-20 min. and back to work,well worth the investment.
            Just be careful and use common sense my 2 cents

just what he said. i had the sleeve blow off a fitting. the brand of fitting wasnt the brand of the hose. it spilt the sleeve the length  of it in 2 places. from the time it went bang until the low oil alarm came on was less than 30 sec

[CTL logger]

I guess I wasn't saying use any hose and any fittings I always use gates fittings with my gates machine. But I quit buying gates hose because the cost I had a whole roll of 1/2" 2 wire gates that kept getting cracks in the outer cover gates wouldn't do anything about it I did some research found that in 1" 4 wire hose if it's stamped sae100r12 it's an industry standard size  1" inside 1.50" outside. I'm not saying this is the case in all sizes but I make more 4 wire hoses than anything else and never have issues. I've  also never sold a single hose to anyone if I was in the business of selling hose I'd be legally obligated to sell the correct product.

[Gearbox]

Someone I think Parker makes a foam slug that you shoot thru with air to clean the line after making your crimps . With the cost of pumps there is no way I would do a stump repair .
Gearbox

[whitepine2]

I guess I wasn't saying use any hose and any fittings I always use gates fittings with my gates machine. But I quit buying gates hose because the cost I had a whole roll of 1/2" 2 wire gates that kept getting cracks in the outer cover gates wouldn't do anything about it I did some research found that in 1" 4 wire hose if it's stamped sae100r12 it's an industry standard size  1" inside 1.50" outside. I'm not saying this is the case in all sizes but I make more 4 wire hoses than anything else and never have issues. I've  also never sold a single hose to anyone if I was in the business of selling hose I'd be legally obligated to sell the correct product.

Cracks on the outside don't mean much it's the wire that is important,that's where the pressure is the outside dont hold pressure. The outside keeps water off the steel on the inside so it don't rust. Somewhere I saw where someone made from pipe fitten a tool that had a cutter inside and you could put plastic pipe inside and turn it this inturn made a ribbon which could go over the line for protection much like the store bought ones but much cheaper,like a poor mans protector.
  You gotta be careful because the gates fittings are made for Gates hose some can be crossed over but you should check with Gates and or the manufacturer of the hose.Like I stated before the fitting should be micked to a certain crimp set up by the manufacturer,this is critical in making hose a lot more than meets the eye. Like said for yourself go for it but be aware there can be repercussions. Man got killed in next town over,had put a new hose on loader,they found him under the bucket in the morning and as I understand it was a new hose made by IH end came off and squashed him didn't see it coming. I wont walk under any bucket after hearing this and take great pains when making up a line.             

[CTL logger]

Cracks on the outside don't mean much it's the wire that is important,that's where the pressure is the outside dont hold pressure. The outside keeps water off the steel on the inside so it don't rust. Somewhere I saw where someone made from pipe fitten a tool that had a cutter inside and you could put plastic pipe inside and turn it this inturn made a ribbon which could go over the line for protection much like the store bought ones but much cheaper,like a poor mans protector.
  You gotta be careful because the gates fittings are made for Gates hose some can be crossed over but you should check with Gates and or the manufacturer of the hose.Like I stated before the fitting should be micked to a certain crimp set up by the manufacturer,this is critical in making hose a lot more than meets the eye. Like said for yourself go for it but be aware there can be repercussions. Man got killed in next town over,had put a new hose on loader,they found him under the bucket in the morning and as I understand it was a new hose made by IH end came off and squashed him didn't see it coming. I wont walk under any bucket after hearing this and take great pains when making up a line.             

Your absolutely correct I mic every crimp it's the only way to make sure your machine is working properly. And cracks in the cover aren't a big deal until these hoses are on a truck mounted loader driving down salted winter roads and every couple of days you replacing the same 4 hoses over and over again. I only wanted them to replace the 300' spool I had bought I put a bunch of hoses in a sealed container shipped it to gates in Denver Colorado and it was never seen again. I'm just saying in my application cracks in the cover mattered a lot.

[beenthere]

CTL
If you remove the "slash" (/) in the first quote bracket, then your quote will show up as a quote. FYI ;)

Can do that with "modify" and then check the results with "preview"..  Hope that helps.

[whitepine2]

   CTL that is what the outside coating is for and in your case will be needed but on off road equipment not so important. It's just that folks see the coating damaged and get bent out of shape over it, I will admit I feel the same way and want to change out the hose but not relay necessary until
rust starts to appead.

[BargeMonkey]

 A perfectly good hose that has the covering falling off and split will get us an MSHA violation measured in the thousands of dollars, I bet I've spent 3k with bailey hydraulic on the plastic hose wrap the last few yrs to cut down on worn hoses and still need to wrap a few more machines.  :D  Ive been sitting here tracking down hose and fittings, a fair amount of deals on ebay and amazon.

[CTL logger]

A perfectly good hose that has the covering falling off and split will get us an MSHA violation measured in the thousands of dollars, I bet I've spent 3k with bailey hydraulic on the plastic hose wrap the last few yrs to cut down on worn hoses and still need to wrap a few more machines.  :D  Ive been sitting here tracking down hose and fittings, a fair amount of deals on ebay and amazon.

I've spent a considerable amount of money on hose wrap I've bought boxes of the plastic wrap kind it's a pain to put on but helps make the hoses last. On my processor on the main pressure and return line they are run through a nylon sleeve then plastic is wrapped around it. The return line lasted 4 years but I probably put 3 pressure lines on a year. I keep a main pressure line on hand at all times  you can wrap 2+ hrs in going to one of those hoses.

[BargeMonkey]

 I use alot of the wrap, some of the hose cover and some of the wire, anything to cut back on hoses. Just scored a nice used Parker hose machine with dies up to 1-1/4 in good shape for dirt cheap money. Heading out to Kleis to look at that hooder 7000 they have sitting there, I'm sure that's going to need hoses, at least now I'm not going to pay thru the nose and lose 3-4hrs when I need a hose.

[starmac]

Got to love them hoses. I got to leave my truck in the hills tonight, because of a hose on the log loader. The loader went down soon after starting to load my truck this morning, so I got to sit there for the rest of the day and ride out with the crew leader. He just called and didn't have what he needed at the mill, so can't leave to head back out there till 8 in the mornin, get there at 10:30 or so, add in two or threee hours to get it back together and everything warmed up enough to start, means a long day for me tomorrow. SO as it turns out not only does their hose cost them, but cost me plenty too. lol

[timberlinetree]

I kinda like the smell when they make them.

[North River Energy]

Happy birthday, Timberline.

That smell is the smell of 'getting back to work'.  Or as we used to say while entering the nasty fog around the Rumford/Mexico mill, "the smell of jobs".

[timberlinetree]

Thanks NRE.  And kinda like my friends Monte Carlo when we lay down ruber ;D.  I ran into a guy with a 58 oliver industrial tractor. He said he still has a lot of the original hoses. Is that because he parks it undercover and does a every 5 yrs hydro fluid change or are the hoses made better back then or lower hyrdo psi on the old machines? Good luck bm with the hose machine.

[BargeMonkey]

Sunlight degrades hoses quick. Every 2 yrs we change all of the hoses on deck exposed to salt and light, the barges get eaten up, rolls of petro tape, wrap every fitting and they keep from rusting to bad. Im picking the machine up when I get home, I asked the guy how much they wanted for the cabinet and bench it was mounted too, he said they where going to probably throw it away.  .   I had my wife at the bank the next morning before the doors opened, I always find the deals when I'm stuck here.  :D

[ScottAR]

Timberline;  Probably all three reasons.       Lack of sun and lower psi is probably the main ones but good maintenance never hurt anything either.   Changing the oil regular would keep some moisture out of the system.  My old backhoe has probably self changed by that time period though...   :

[North River Energy]

Timberline,
I suspect rubber products are nowhere near as environmentally stable as they once were.
Older equipment tended to be high volume/ low pressure, which would put less internal stress on the hoses.

[timberlinetree]

Thanks it seem like environment and maintenance and psi are the reason for hose blowing. We don't put a ton of hours on our splitter but its like 15+ years old and never blew a hose.we keep it covered when not in use and change fluid ever so often. I worry sometimes when it's hot outside and the splitter is really hot and getting blasted by hot hydro fluid from a broken hose. The hoses from the outside look new. An I a worry wart?

[BargeMonkey]

 

  
Got off the boat in Albany and ran out to New Haven to pick it up, it barely fit in the wife's Subaru Legacy but I'm so cheap I didn't want to pay the tolls for a dually going out.  :D  works good, needed a switch.  Called today to the local supplier about more hose, they want to meet with me when I get home, want to set me up to be a parker dealer in our area.    99% of the time I have the worst luck ever but lately I don't know.

[timberlinetree]

Nice! Glad u got it! I'm always stealing Marcia's car to get something. :D

[xalexjx]

Who do you get your crimp ends from? I have a weather head press and was getting them through napa but found out discount hyd hose is way cheaper and they're the same fittings, you'll like the conveinience of having your own crimper