To a sawyer a Beauty has to be a log right? I was at my property today after voting and found this Cherrybark Red Oak on the ground. Saturated ground, tall tree, and wind does not mix very well. :-\
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5301.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541552632)
The butt swell is well over 3' and the butt log DBH would easily push 30"+.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5303.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1541552774)
I have admired this beauty many times in the past.
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52' to the first fork and from there two stems (12"-15") still going up with relatively no side limbs.
The dilemma is that I have no use for any lumber. I have plenty already sawn and stickered for my barn restoration/refurbishing project. This thing contains two years worth of firewood, but it is begging to be sawn. :-X
If you don't saw it, I will come and get it :).
Any parenchyma bands present? :D Or perhaps a Mariachi band instead? smiley_trap_drummer smiley_guitarist horn_smiley
It was being closely guarded by these guys:
IMG 2096 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObxeCbUODwU)
Saw you some Mantels and store them.
Now you have too show us all what's inside that beauty
This one will present several challenges the first of which will be extraction. Any kind of reasonable length logs will be crowding/exceeding 4K lbs. which is much more than my JD 1530 e/w my Tajfun logging winch can handle. :-\
MM, Firewood logs are meant to be firewood (but oftentimes live edge braces in my case). Saw logs are meant to be sawn, and veneer logs are meant to be sawn if we get our hands on them first.
That would be a good tie beam log given its length and qualities. Or RRQS logs.
Don't you know anyone with a boom forklift or a big skid steer to help you get it out? Firewood would be a sin. You gotta mill it.
Brad beat me to it, that thing looks nice.
If the twist isn't too much that looks like it would grade very well as a large, long, red oak beam. That's the kind of tree we were scouring the woods for last year for our barn repair projects.
We made the beams in the woods with a CSM... if there is anyone in your neighborhood who is doing that or a timberframe they could do that. The beam came out easier than the log and then we bucked the large slabs and took them out to the sawmill in board lengths easily.
Lynn,
Sorry you lost such a nice wildlife tree. Hope you can salvage some good lumber out of what is left.
How far will you have to snake the logs out to a spot you could reasonably get and set up your sawmill?
It would take a skidder to get the entire stem out and that ain't happening.
I feel your pain - 20 or so hardwood trees came down in TS Michael. The biggest are white oaks and hickories. I'm stuck with the dilemma of how to get some of them out of the woods as well. Our farm is extremely steep so the dilemma is compounded. I do have the opposite problem- plenty of firewood and a need for lumber.
One red oak produced 5 9' saw logs with the smallest end 18".
You probably have 2 years worth of firewood just in the branches with as far south as you live. It would be sad to see that beautiful straight tree chopped up into firewood when you have a sawmill just sitting around.
Need to find someone with a little swing blade mill ;D
I'm a bit far away, but I'd saw up a tree like that where it's laying and haul the boards out with whatever machine you had handy, quad bike or bigger.
I have the same problem courtesy of Hurricane Michael.
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In 2010, I lost these two Cherrybark Oaks due to lightening:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/Image0042.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1292987841)
They were both over 36" DBH.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1310.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1414961833)
And then in 2014, these two fell in opposite directions. The closest was a Water Oak and the other a Cherrybark Oak. Both were well over 40" DBH.
Sadly I was unable to recover any of them due to their location. I have learned to accept that which I can not control. :-\
I have not yet come to terms as you have MM. With a tree that nice i would be waiting for ground to freeze and going after it. Probably making a mess and looking like a fool doing it like I did with a particular log last winter.
Split the trunk with black powder to size your winch can haul out.
Quote from: Rhodemont on November 07, 2018, 10:24:30 AM
I have not yet come to terms as you have MM. With a tree that nice i would be waiting for ground to freeze and going after it. Probably making a mess and looking like a fool doing it like I did with a particular log last winter.
Rhody,
By the time the ground froze in hard enough in Mississippi to get heavy equipment in to that log it would likely have already rotted to sawdust on it's own. :D
Correct Howard, our ground does not freeze.
I talked with Marty and it appears that the lumber is destined to become flooring in his home. I also talked with my kiln/milling guy to verify the length and widths that he prefers. I will saw, sticker, and air dry before delivering it to him in March. We now have a plan. :)
Magic, if the butt log is cut 8' long and it 30 on the small end and 33 on the big end (cause you'll trim the swell), then the log weight should be about 2700 LBS. Can't your machine handle skidding that? Or can the loader arms on the mill handle it? If there's a will there's a way. Gun barrel them, split the quarter sawn boards out of the middle, and RRQS the remaining halves.
Just saw your response. If it's going to be flooring, maybe at least conventional quarter saw it if you don't want to RRQS.
If your chainsaw isn't big enough you could always pick up a farmer tech ms 660 "devil in a blue dress" cut in at 12'6" saw it down the middle and split it in two, then skid them out that way.
MM,
You gotta think outside of the box! Helicopter, big one! Fly them logs to the mill! :D :D :D.
Brad, I am not concerned with the sawmill handling anything that I can get to it and the tree is less than 50 yards from the road which will be my sawing site. If I have difficulty skidding a log I can always wrap and roll it. Even at 8½' the butt log is gonna be over 4K lbs.
My initial comments regarding whether lumber or firewood was based upon the fact that I personally have no need for any lumber. Once Marty suggested making flooring for his den, firewood was out and lumber was in.
I should be able to do some measuring and maybe even some skidding next week. I saw another downed Red Oak beside the creek that I have not looked at yet. That plus another that is dead standing. :-\
Magic -
I have salvaged a couple of red oaks that had been down so long the sap wood was gone and made them into flooring. The first one I did was headed to become firewood and something said to try sawing it to see what it looked like. The only description I can give is that it reminds me of reclaimed lumber. Yes, there is a yield loss, but the colors are richer and darker. I suspect it has something to do with the aging process that we can't duplicate as only time will make it happen. I need to call a client in the morning about another oak job he needs and will ask him for a photo of the floor I did for him. You may want to look at some of those that have been down a while too for Martys project.
I am familiar with rotten Red Oak logs becoming flooring.
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This one did. ;D
Looks like the same ones I have seen. How did it turn out?
Very nice as you described above. The color was darker and "richer" than the other logs.
That reminds me of my firewood logs. ;D But I need firewood more than lumber. ;D
An update on what is happening with this "Beauty".
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I put my brand new 24" bar/chain on the saw. OK, I know that a Stihl 310 is not rated for a 24" bar, but I got it for special occasions and this is special. ;D
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First sawing the butt from the stump.
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Yes the stump stood back up. Well partially anyway. You can see it pulling loose at the bottom of the cut. I measured and planned to jump butt 18" from the butt log just in case this happened.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5368.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1545187620)
That 24" bar came in handy because the butt was 36".
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Two 12' and two 10' logs before we reached the crotch. :)
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The top end of the 4th log was 23".
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I didn't have my snatch block(s) so we had to winch the two top logs first.
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The top two logs are out.
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The butt log is next which had to be double blocked.
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Had to winch it around this stump.
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'Bout ready to move the tractor forward for another pull.
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Winching the second log out. That Tajfun tractor winch did a job. Those are my Grandfather's old 36" tongs. They have been well taken care of and have never been nor needed to be sharpened.
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All four logs out and staged for sawing. The next time that you see them will be on Whatcha Sawin ??
A short Video with the double blocks on the butt log:
IMG 5443 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQ8MrgKgzc)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5448.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1545189235)
The first two of three twitches of firewood. The third twitch was two logs but it was too dark for a picture. The near log was a standing dead Red Oak.
That red oak was growing like a weed.
Quote from: WDH on November 06, 2018, 08:22:43 PM
If you don't saw it, I will come and get it :).
At least you will not have to make a trip.
Yup, from the ground ~50' to the fork. Not the first limb, not even 2"-4" limbs. :)
It would be interesting to find some acorns from that beauty and see if the offspring do as well. Maybe Mossy Oak would pay handily for them.
There are easily 3-4 equally as good within sight of this one. One even larger.
nice log ,where did you buy your tajfun winch ,it looks well made ?
That Tajfun is a real beast. I bought it from a deceased sawyer's widow.
Nice Job. I like that winch!
What is a "twitch" of firewood?
It is a "whack".
Well - not really, kinda depends on the size of your horse. A twitch won't make a whack if you don't have adequate ponies.
A twitch can be a whack, but a whack is usually more than a single twitch. Depends on the specific gravity and moisture content of the wood and the phase of the moon. These things can get tricky. It takes an experienced expert to figure it out. For a small fee, I am available to help you come to the proper conclusion.
Quote from: WDH on December 19, 2018, 08:51:48 PM
A twitch can be a whack, but a whack is usually more than a single twitch. Depends on the specific gravity and moisture content of the wood and the phase of the moon. These things can get tricky. It takes an experienced expert to figure it out. For a small fee, I am available to help you come to the proper conclusion.
This statement sums up half the conversations on the FF. Fro what I've heard, WDH is a "Very Professional Experienced Expert" :D
Quote from: WDH on December 19, 2018, 08:51:48 PMbut a whack is usually more than a single twitch
"Usually", in this case, would represent the limiting factor based on the gross sum of deceased chief executives of a republic one has devoted to the acquisition of adequate ponies. Should one dedicate enough deceased chief executives of a republic then easily a "twitch" can exceed a whack and become danG close to a "load". It all boils down to the Benjamins.
Sounds like bovine scatology......
bovine scatology. Got to keep that one in mind
That sounds like a twitch to me. :D
OK, y'all quit all this twitching.
I imagine that Marty and I will have a twitch to go to the Cabin tomorrow and work on that firewood twitch. Well actually those three twitches did make a whack.
That "standing dead" Red Oak was 60' without a limb and about 22" at the butt. I hate to loose trees like that but sometime trees just die. :-\ I am glad that I spotted it and was able to skid it out. There is another by the creek that I have not looked at yet.
My understanding is that a twitch is related to animal skidding, horses, mules burros, oxen or maybe even whats in the bogus picture of a moose in harness.
There is a twitch that is a chain on a stick and is used to hold a horses lip when performing less than relaxing procedures on said horse - usually involves a vet - and it's purpose is to keep the horses focus on its lip and not whatever else is happening.
I can't ever remember hearing or using the term before but I suspect a twitch is very similar to a mess like a mess of fish or a mess of turnip greens with significant flexibility involved in the application. If you get too worried about the exact dimensions and volume/weight involved and get a headache we can ask Danny to bring some extra strength placebos when he comes to explain it to you.
Or you could go to the "Extras" above and look in the FF Dictionary. :P
My Father used that twitching word all the time. Twitching out wood. I would susupect that came from the horse,oxen days. He used the wood about a tractor or a skidder too.
Quote from: Magicman on December 20, 2018, 08:31:18 AM
Or you could go to the "Extras" above and look in the FF Dictionary. :P
OK, I double checked that and IMHO, the current definition could use just a little "tweaking".
True, but I ain't a tweaker, I'm a twitcher. ;D
My butt starts to tingle when i hear the word twitch. Dad just had to give the warning and i would shape up really fast.
But if you fix a twitch to get it out of the bush . You may tweak and twitter about it bit .
From what I understand, a twitch refers to any single log or group of logs being skidded out of the woods. The term gets its name from the side to side swinging of the longs (especially tree length) as they are pulled around corners, much like the twitching of an animals tail.
Quote from: Resonator on December 20, 2018, 09:44:51 AMFrom what I understand, a twitch refers to any single log or group of logs being skidded out of the woods.
Our understanding is the same. smiley_thumbsup
And now who can describe a "Dooryard" ? ;D
I ain't from New England, but I saw plenty of them while traveling there. ;D
I sure hope Marty shares some pictures of his finished floor. Love a floor with character and history. smiley_heart
Quote from: Southside logger on December 20, 2018, 09:55:04 AM
And now who can describe a "Dooryard" ? ;D
That would be the yard outside your door as opposed to the yard outside your window which would properly be called a "Windowyard" ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 20, 2018, 08:28:51 AM
we can ask Danny to bring some extra strength placebos when he comes to explain it to you.
If it does not involve vessel elements or sclerids, I can't explain it.
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We bucked, split, and hauled the three twitches of firewood this evening.
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Ben taking his turn with the splitter. It was dark when we finished so no pictures of the two full trailer loads of split firewood. A 10' shown above and also a 16'; total was a bit over two measured cords. ;D
You always say WE but I never see you doing any of the work.
The supervisor just make sure the jobs get finished and done safely, if the boss gets involved then no one is happy.
That should be enough firewood to supply all of Brookhaven for next year.
Actually none was for me, it will all go to Marty's MIL. That should be enough to last her 3 years. There is another Red Oak down beside the creek that I plan to get for my use. Getting enough firewood is never a problem here.
QuoteGetting enough firewood is never a problem here.
Board footage and cord woodage! (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/thumb.gif) (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/campfire.gif)
Very descriptive! Yes this started with a very nice fallen Red Oak that will become board footage.
Sadly many trees fall into the creek. With the Tajfun I can now recover some of them but if they are those 30"+ Red Oaks they just have to rot where they fall. Double blocking this one was the only way that I could have recovered the butt log and it wasn't in the creek.
Sorry to come in late on this one but in my experience, if you're standing at the stern of a bovine and notice it beginning to twitch, you're about to be smacked, either by the bovine's tail or by the stench of the end product of the digestive track...
Herb
I went by and took pictures of the two trailers this morning.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5457.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1545497704)
The 10' trailer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5460.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1545497771)
And the 16'. I know that by "Glacial" standards this ain't much, but for us "Tropical" guys it's about a three year's supply. fire_smiley
MM:
A nice load of 'cord woodage' - those two loads would heat my shop for at least a month or two up here in the glaciated up-yonder. (quoted from thee one and only WDH)
My eyebrows go up whenever I see Carharts, logging winches and log splitters without a solid 20 cm of white snow.
How is that even possible ?
:D ;D :D
Almost like hearing Brig Crosby sing,I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas in MS. ;D
Twill be no White Christmas here. Matter of fact, I have never seen one. :o
Notice that Luke has already stripped down to a short sleeved T shirt. I think that we all did before we finished. ::)
Old saying up here:
" Firewood will warm you up three times; first when you fell it, second when you split and stack, third when it's in the wood stove."
That beauty you found, it's proving the proverb - nice work gents!
I am sorta planning to (try to) skid those four logs ½ mile up to the Cabin so I will be on higher ground while sawing them into the flooring lumber. Probably won't have but the two rear tires on the ground. :o I'll try the butt log first and if I can slid it, then the rest will be easy.
Quote from: Magicman on December 22, 2018, 01:28:25 PM
I am sorta planning to (try to) skid those four logs ½ mile up to the Cabin so I will be on higher ground while sawing them into the flooring lumber. Probably won't have but the two rear tires on the ground. :o I'll try the butt log first and if I can slid it, then the rest will be easy.
All you need is a long stoneboat, and the logs should still be clean.
GAB
Quote from: Brad_bb on November 06, 2018, 09:11:15 PM
MM, Firewood logs are meant to be firewood. Saw logs are meant to be sawn, and veneer logs are meant to be sawn if we get our hands on them first.
Best quote ever!!!
Sounds like its time for one of those alaskan chainsaw mills in situations like these
I can easily get my sawmill to the logs where they are now it's just that it will be much more convenient after I skid them to the Cabin. I know that I can skid 3 of them and I think the 4th. I'll know this week.
Good luck moving those logs and be careful
Does your winch lift one end any?
Oh yes, I can get the nose off of the ground with all of them which is why I believe that I will be OK with the skid. I actually may have to remove the Tajfun logging winch and just have the quick hitch on. This will lighten my load in the rear and will also allow the log to be closer to the tractor. I'll know with the top logs what I will have to do with the butt log(s).
We have heavy rain forecast for the next few days so today had to be log skidding day.
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This is the second (from the butt) log. I figured that if I could skid it I could probably get them all. Yup, I had to steer with the brakes but I made the half mile pull OK. Next would be the butt log.
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And then all four of them. Yeah!!! The sawmill will be next. :)
So with time on my hands I decided to tackle the firewood tree that was down beside the creek.
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It was a nice Red Oak and the limbs had prevented it from falling completely over.
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Two twitches and all of the usable sticks are at the Cabin to be bucked & split into firewood.
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While I was dealing with the firewood tree I spotted yet another Cherrybark Red Oak that has fallen on the other side of the creek. :-\ Looks like a couple of 10' logs there but I didn't cross the creek and take a close look. Maybe next week.
All of these downed trees are on the 146 acres next to the Cabin. I can only imagine how many are possibly down on the 200 acres that I seldom enter.
Be careful how many beauties you find MM. You may find yourself forced into logging or even lumber sales.
8)
Rain today and tonight but Marty and I are planning to go after that last fallen tree/logs tomorrow. Do it now because once that bottom gets soaked it will be a no-go.
Darrel, ain't gonna happen. :-X :D
MM
Do you have any ERC on your property ?
How big is your tractor MM? That winch looks like something that could be very useful on my place, but my tractor isn't very big. It's only an 18 horse...
Yes, there is quite a lot of ERC on my property.
That plus I have a whack of ~20 ERC tree length logs that has been stacked at the Cabin since 2011.
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I have about given away all of this log length ERC. The heartwood is still solid and I hauled/stacked it in 2003. :o
I am not interested in developing any lumber market.
Quote from: Crossroads on December 27, 2018, 11:51:33 AMHow big is your tractor MM?
My old JD is 45hp. As I have mentioned several times, the front end is generally off of the ground with those heavier logs and I have to steer with my brakes.
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I can regulate the front end somewhat with the draw bar height. Front "suitcase" weights would be nice, but I would not want any less hp.
What model JD do you have, MagicMan? I have a 2030 that looks a lot like yours, except I have a 146 loader on it.
I want to make a front guard and some limb risers (sweeps) for it like Addington Equipment makes. I need something to keep the tree limbs off the lights and me. Mowing around the edges of these hayfields that seem to get smaller every year is a real punishment.
First two pictures are how it was when I bought it 10-12 years ago. I've added the loader and a rollbar since.(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34291/shop3B_July_152C_10_and_Reynolds__2030_006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545937341)
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I don't have anything on my place as big/heavy as your oak, but it's probably better if I come up with a different plan.
Oliver, mine is a 1974, 45hp M1530. I wish that it was the 68hp M2030 like yours. :-\
I would love to have a FEL on it, or rather just a larger hp tractor with a FEL. ;D
With the snow blower on the back of mine I have to hook the choker to the bucket and drag the logs backwards, so I end up with the opposite issue as you MM. my back tires are off the ground much of the time. I don't move logs when momma is home, I'd surely be in trouble 😉
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The tractor winch is much better than the blade. :o Whatever you do, you should have something on the back to prevent a rear flip. :-X
Definitely! My BIL's neighbor flipped his over backwards while pulling a log and was killed....
I've wondered but have never tried it, if you chain to something up front on the tractor and run the chain loose through a clevis on the drawbar, would you stay down? It's a dead drag then though.
We dropped a 3' red oak Christmas day here and pulled the upper sections with the truck in 4 low, there are still 2 8' bottom logs to go. There are a number of these to come out, I've let the trees around the house get too big for too long.
It should stay down Don, but I would want some kind of sled for the log to prevent it from digging in.
We had much rain today (and still getting it) but Marty and I still have plans to go after that last Red Oak tree that I found tomorrow. The ground was solid Wednesday so I am hoping that we can get it out.
Just find an old car hood to a land yacht, it should work great to skid that log.
I can't believe that you don't have a Logrite arch Magicman... ;D
Quote from: Magicman on December 27, 2018, 04:16:12 PM
Oliver, mine is a 1974, 45hp M1530. I wish that it was the 68hp M2030 like yours. :-\
I would love to have a FEL on it, or rather just a larger hp tractor with a FEL. ;D
You can have. I'm sure the bank will help you get one. :D
Quote from: Southside logger on December 27, 2018, 11:14:47 PMI can't believe that you don't have a Logrite arch Magicman... ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/Photo492.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1395174990)
Not a Logrite but I do have a homebuilt arch, seen here with our late FF Friend Andy White.
Ahh - very nice. That will help as you build up your lumber business I have been hearing about. :D
Quote from: Southside logger on December 28, 2018, 08:18:06 AM
Ahh - very nice. That will help as you build up your lumber business I have been hearing about. :D
He tells me that that ain't gonna happen. Maybe he's more magic than me, but whenever I say it ain't gonna happen, guess what happens. :D ;D :D
Quote from: Don P on December 27, 2018, 10:39:42 PM
I've wondered but have never tried it, if you chain to something up front on the tractor and run the chain loose through a clevis on the drawbar, would you stay down? It's a dead drag then though.
We dropped a 3' red oak Christmas day here and pulled the upper sections with the truck in 4 low, there are still 2 8' bottom logs to go. There are a number of these to come out, I've let the trees around the house get too big for too long.
With that much weight you should only pull it with a chain to a "real" drawbar that is bolted to the belly of a tractor not a 3 point hitch. This transfers the pull below and ahead of the rear tires to prevent flipping over. MM blowing up a frontal shot of your JD with the wheels in the air looks like you have a drawbar bracket on it. It there a reason you don't use it instead of the 3 point?
Oh, he sells lumber. He just uses a pimp ;D.
Quote from: KirkD on December 28, 2018, 11:53:13 AMMM blowing up a frontal shot of your JD with the wheels in the air looks like you have a drawbar bracket on it. It there a reason you don't use it instead of the 3 point?
I was using the 3 point with the blade attached. That way I could lift the nose up to prevent it from digging in. No way could I pull that load flat. Also the blade effectively prevents a back flip. I am liking the Tajfun because it will also prevent a back flip.
We had much rain yesterday and last night but with more rain coming we decided to try to skid that log out that I found a couple of days ago.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5491.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546050934)
Bucked and ready for a try at skidding.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5492.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546051016)
Ready for the skid attempt.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_5493.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546051096)
Success. Hopefully this will be enough for Marty's flooring. If not, we will drop a tree. Now finally we are ready for sawing. ;D
Lynn,
From the weather reports I've been seeing for areas near you in Mississippi looks to me like you may be able to just float the logs out. Stay safe and keep us informed how this project works out.
MM what about using a forecart for those bigger logs, basically a log arch that only picks up the nose so you don't plow with the log. Back when I was foolish, broke didn't own a skidder, I pulled a fair number of logs behind a work horse, it got a lot easier on both the horse and I when I acquired a forecart. I mean, you won't look as cool doing a wheelie and all, but your brakes will last longer!!! ::)
I look forward to seeing the inside of those logs
I hate to see a topic begun and never has an ending. With that in mind, I will add links to show this log being sawn and later the actual flooring.
Logs staged: Whatcha Sawin' ??? in Sawmills and Milling (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=80057.msg1624712#msg1624712)
Sawing: Whatcha Sawin' ??? in Sawmills and Milling (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=80057.msg1624944#msg1624944)
Slab cleanup: Whatcha Sawin' ??? in Sawmills and Milling (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=80057.msg1628512#msg1628512)