Welp, PatD and I got our "Shingrix" Shingle shots this afternoon so if we "croak" tonight you will know what happened to us.
Starting in 2023, they are "free" to us Medicare folks.
Figured that I would just come back home and enjoy a slice of cake and a cup of coffee to celebrate. :)
Magic....
Had mine several years back. This is the one vaccination that really gave me a sore arm, and made me feel like a dishrag for a couple of days. Just warning you, this one can be a bit tougher than your standard reaction to your standard vaccine.
Actually I/we had researched rather extensively and that is what we both had read. We even considered postponing but why? 2-3 days is 2-3 days and there is never a "good" time.
We have "Cabin" plans for the remainder of the week so whatever it will be, it will be.
I took a sawing call on the way home and I am "booked up" not sawing in June anyway. I told him mid-July at the earliest. The trees just blew over last evening so it will probably be November before he gets ready.
I got shingles, wasn't aware vaccine was available, and was miserable for a few weeks. I don't wish the pain on anybody. :(
It's a two part vaccine isn't it ? Dr told me to get the series, said first was not too bad but second one was memorable.
Yes, the exact same vaccination/medication dosage about three months apart.
Got mine a few years back. Both my parents got Shingles and it took a couple of years for the pain to subside.
I had heard about the sore arm from the vaccine but I never noticed it.
I also got the pneumonia vaccine.
It's only been 3 hours since getting stuck and I already can feel some soreness. I'll probably take Tylenol or Advil before bedtime.
i got my first shot back in April on my way down to our woods to cut firewood. Spent the next couple days hauling and blocking up a trailer load of wood. Had plenty of aches and pains the next couple of days. Not sure if one of them was from the shot. Felt fine other wise though. Have to go back right after July fourth for the second shot. Never had shingles and people I know that have all say its not something you will enjoy having. GET THE SHOT
I got a shot for shingles a few years back (2017) and didn't get much in the way of a reaction to it - but I did get full blown shingles itself about 2 weeks later after it..
Go Figure!
I had marks all over my face and head and looked like I had been in a big time Bar Brawl and ended up on the losing end of it all..
Had one eye shut closed for about a week and had many tests later to see if it had actually compromised my vision - thankfully not though!
Not fun certainly!
Would I have gotten the vaccine if I knew all of this - NOOO!
Note: Some doctors have told me it was just a coincidence that I got shingles as there is absolutely no connection - but just as many others have nodded knowingly and admitted they do see a connection between the shot and the possibility of getting shingles - so your results may differ...
Got shingles when I was about 20, better than 50 years ago. I didn't have much problem from it than but maybe because I was young. With that history I got the first shingles vaccine as soon as it came out and than got the latest Shingrix shot when it came out a few years ago. Maybe I was lucky but never had any problems with the shots.
Quote from: realzed on June 19, 2023, 10:54:58 PMI got a shot for shingles a few years back and didn't get much in the way of a reaction to it - but I did get full blown shingles itself about 3 weeks later after it.. Go Figure!
Thing is shingles is caused by the Chicken Pox virus, that we all caught at some stage as kids. Most 5 years old's immune system knocks it back pretty quick, but doesn't seem to eliminate it from the body completely. It's still lurking in your body some place. As you get older your immune system gets weaker, and the virus can make a comeback, causing shingles.
What factors trigger this? Apart from getting old, it's not really known, but I guess it's not impossible that shots (which play with the immune system) could be the last straw that let an almost ready to spread virus activate more? But the virus was there as a ticking bomb pretty much all your life. Maybe the process had actually started before you got the shots? Maybe the vaccine was the final kick it needed, or the vaccine didn't really "take" (no real reaction), and it was going to happen that week anyway. No way to know for sure.
Think of the shot as a booster to the immune system and does so by mimicking an infection. Most pain and inflammation is from our own immune systems fighting a foreign invader. the aches and pains and fatigue ect. are all from our immune systems. viral cells are dead packets of dna that have to invade live cells to make more viruses. your immune system likely kills infected cells to get rid of the virus. the virus lives in nerve cells and then can come out after your immunity fades. thus the rash of shingles is in a dermatomal distribution and usually does not cross over the mid-line. the chicken pox rash is all over, and not as painful. If you live to be an adult and never get CP you may die from it as it then more likely gets into a viral lung infection. You might be on a ventilator for a week. there are antiviral like acyclovir that can help sop viruses. If you take the vaccine before getting CP, then you are better ready for it if it comes along and will not get shingles likely. no one knows how long the vaccines will confer immunity, and if it will fade like natural immunity. remember with viruses and allergies, it is your own immune response that gives you symptoms.
As y'all know I like to be a little different. I didn't get Chicken pox until I was in my early 30s. I even tried to catch it from friends kids that had it when I was in the military, to no avail. When I did catch them I got it from my youngest son who was around 16 YO and had come down with shingles. I only had a few actual spots that was around my waist and I first thought they was chiggers. Lasted a couple of days and it was right back to work.
Both of us have only slightly sore arms this morning and so far, no other problems. I took a couple of Advil before bedtime last night and PatD took Tylenol.
Jake, you can get blood work to prove you have had it. have you been vaccinated? you may not have had it as young folks rarely get shingles and have to have had chicken pox first. We should prob. ask @Southside (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) as this seems to involve chickens! :D :D :D
ChickenPox, Avian Flu, the VooDoo Chicken Kiln Ritual, Southern Fried, . . . man, everything comes back to those DanG chickens.
Good call Doc, let's find the specialist.
.
Customsawyer, I've taken two turns with shingles.
The first round was much like your experience. It came and it went.
Then, the second round, about three years ago, had me out of action for a long week.
Y'know, from a biological viewpoint, it was interesting to to see so many infected nerve endings along the nerve route, circling around my body, painful as H. and no, no pictures please.
If you want to avoid that, getting the shot soon would be a good idea.
I got the vaccine as soon as possible after round two finally cleared up.
Mark me down as convinced.
Man I purposely stay out of a conversation and my ladies still get blamed! :D
Jake your scenario is unusual so make sure you actually had it. rashes can look like each other. or get the vax. I took care of the COO of our hospital in Concordia Ks, on a ventilator for a week as he recovered.
Our arms are much more sore and warm to the touch now than they were this morning. So far no other symptoms.
Doc I never had the shingles. I only had a couple of chicken pox close to my waist line. I was concerned because I always heard they were worse the older you got them. Wasn't a big deal for me.
the unusual part is that your 16 y/o had shingles and you caught it from them. and that you only got a few pox, and not covered in them as a primary infection. not to be contrary (but it is what I do :)) but it may have not been your first infection, and your son had to of first had CP to later have shingles. usually, shingles is later as the immune system fails, or if on immunosuppressants like chemo or treatment for rheumatoid. not everyone can look at one and tell if it is chicken pox. In fact, you have to look at the whole scenario combined with a pock that has a clear membrane with fluid inside. I hope you had them, and poss. you had them younger and did not realize it. the old moms used to be good at it, but not anymore.
one problem is if you are not sure so you take your child to the doctor, and sit in a waiting room along with other kids, and if you have CP, and another kid in the waiting room has cancer and on chemo, that child will die from CP. so many pediatricians refuse to care for children whose parents do not immunize. It is not a snob thing, but to protect the sickest children.
We are now a full week post vaccinations and our arms are only slightly sore if you rub them. Neither of us had any other symptoms and neither of us postponed any activities.
My wife had shingles years ago and I got the vaccination asap. If I remember right it was only one shot. They gave her the same shot later saying it would help prevent them from coming back. Maybe they have something new out now?
Yes, the latest vaccine is "Shingrix". Two shots 2-6 months apart.
"Zostavax" is no longer available for use in the United States, as of November 18, 2020.
Linda and I got the shingrix duo several years ago.
Just a little soreness, nothing else.
My dad had it bad when in his late 80s.
I had what was diagnosed as a mild case about 30 years ago, mild rash around my right side about a foot long, just itched a lot, no real pain.
Maybe wasnt shingles Doc?
hard to know now, but prob. over the hump.
I wonder about getting the Shingles booster vaccination which will be in September in the same arm? My three Covid shots were also in this left arm.
It seems as I have worn this left arm out and should switch to the right arm. ??
We had all 4 rounds of covid shots in the same arm. I don't think it's the shots wearing them out. Seems to have something to do with how many times the earth spins around. :D
I get all my shots and IV sticks for blood donation in my L arm.
The wife went in for her VA checkup yesterday and they gave her the first dose of the new shot. I guess I need to ask about it next time I see the doctor.
Mother had an outbreak of shingles over a year ago. Took the meds and got over it quick then the shot a few months later.
I got my first shot on Monday, and there were almost no side effects, (wrong) other than a swollen arm down to my wrist, my other arm hurt from my shoulder to my fingers, my whole upper chest ached, I couldn't sleep the first night and developed a slight fever, but that was offset last night where I had chills all night. I now feel great, like a switch had been thrown.
Jeesh
The bad news is the second shot, they say it's the "bad" one. It's scheduled for September.
So why am I doing this??
The funny part was the pharmacist asked they needed to send a note to my employer because I might feel bad for a couple days and may even miss work. I said, no, my boss is a total *** :D :D and will make me work through it. Actually, about lunch time yesterday, I was asleep on the couch, note or no note.
my two shots I had no side effects at all. My wife gave it to me, so maybe it was for something else.
I had the earlier one stick shingles vaccine, and two years ago took the Shingrix regimen.
Is the shingles shot like tetanus where we need a booster every so often, or is it one and done?
I don't normally react to vaccines, but this was a memorable one.
I guess I'm just getting old.
some discomfort is a sign your immune system is fooled and thinks you have the real disease. Congratulation Robert. 8) 8) 8)
So @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041)
if I am getting a good immune response on the frost shot, is the second shot necessary?
who knows! :) prob. wait a while. you can pre-med with ibuprophen. I had shingles 10 years ago, and the shot did nothing to me, and you would expect a more vigorous response since the disease is usually the best immunizer.
as we age we respond less usually. It will be interesting if you do not feel as bad with the second shot. maybe had a viral bug at the same time as the first shot. Or maybe you are not really that old. smiley_old_guy
I had my second shot yesterday. The first one was unremarkable and 24 hours into the second I feel fine except for pain at the injection site. Problem was the pharmacy girl stuffed that needle into my arm with great incompetence. I never had such a painful injection, it caught me totally by surprise and I loudly uttered some choice language right there in public. She's apologizing already and backs it out a little, Ow!, more choice language again. She says "I didn't expect there to be muscle there." Any extraordinary amount muscle there was a surprise to me as much strength as I've lost in recent years. Surely they still teach the difference between SC and IM in pharm school?
prob. never did. that was nurses. now all the Walmart's and Walgreens want the money for the injections, and it is good for those with no doc. started mostly during covid. now they are all trying to be a little clinic or something.
Had shingles in 99, there is no pain that's worse. Started at my mid section and went around under my left arm to my backbone. Pain, itch and pealing skin. V.A. gave me one shot last fall, and that was about as bad as a tetanus shot. Rita got hers a yr ago and says it was like a tetanus shot. I have to take acyclovir (an antiviral) for the rest of my life, and also sulfamethoxazole (a bacterial) too. It's nice to live with the thought that anyone can make me sick.
PatD and I just got our 2nd Shingles Shot. I am hoping to avoid the arm soreness that I had with the first one.
Grandfather had shingles in the 80's, no meds for it and no vaccines for it then. Lasted months.
I had the first kind of shingle shots about 2-3 years ago. Do I need to get this new one?
Google may know or we will have to call @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) and @doctorb (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10176) to answer that.
I had a miserable night last night. >:( DanG arm was sore and my normal tossin' & turnin' sleep habits got interrupted. I finally rearranged my pillow at 3 so I could turn on my left side and slept until 5. Took a couple of Advil this morning and not doin' nuttin' today.
Both of us are OK, just have sore arms to the touch. My soreness lasted a couple of weeks on the first shot, PatD's about a week.
By recollection....the old Shingles shot (Zostavax, 2006) was a one shot dose. The new shingles shot (Shingrix) is a two shot vaccine. As the efficacy of the new vaccine is far superior to the Zostavax, i believe the recommendations are that the new vaccine be given to provide better protection. Await confirmation from Doc H.
My wife reminded me that we both were dish rags for a weekend after our Shingrix vaccine. She had a worse reaction to the second shot than I. Hang in there Magic!
I've had the two shot vaccine. I do remember feeling a bit odd after the shot, but I have a stronger disposition than most folks.
In the past I have gotten a flu shot and it worked. It gave me the flu.
No telling how the body will react to these things. I guess MagicMan's body heard no shingles? Whats next? No 2x4's? 8)
I got 2 shots so maybe it wasn't as long ago as I remembered.
I don't remember any side effects.
How about the normal flu shot normally comes out each year, Docs.
Do you recommend?
Yes, on the flu shot. covid is picking up here, but not too sick of patients. I would think hard about it (covid booster) if you are at high risk, like elderly or on chemo/immunocompromised, overweight, DM, COPD. shingles will hurt more than the shot. I asked my wife, and she had no reaction to the first, and a little sore arm with the second. Pneumonia shot as you get older, and esp. with chronic illness.
This morning on the Today Show they had a Doc saying to quit thinking of the new Covid shot as a booster and just think it's like a yearly Flu shot but now a yearly Covid shot to cover the new strains.
I don't know what to think for young and healthy people. My wife got pericarditis after her last booster shot. She runs and exercises a lot and now she has fluid around her heart. This woman never gets sick and it's driving her crazy from not being able to exercise. Now it's driving me crazy.
That is a topic my age group has a lot...do these Mrna vaccines hurt more then help young people?
I don't know...
the healthier you are the less likely you will get very sick. That is the gamble. The goal is to not die or be disabled from the disease. some of the side effects of the vaccine are the same as the disease. Back in the day, folks had kids develop seizures after vaccination. makes sense if all kids get vaccinated. The overall incidence was the same in the general population, even the unvaccinated. so, a part of each vaccine payment goes to a fund, to help families with a child with developmental delay or seizures, thought to be from a vaccine even though the incidence of those problems is at the level expected in the general population. During covid, this all got heated, so I am not trying to convince anyone to go get it. You could blame the vaccine for any ailment you have after the fact. Some of the side effects are related, and actually expected, and even hoped for as a good sign. This is why, folks at the most risk and more likely to have devastating consequences from the disease, are most encouraged to get the shots for whatever. historically far more people benefit from the programs than the few who do not. This pandemic made for a rushed implementation, thinking we could lose millions of Americans if we waited. time to relax a bit and make up our own minds. :)
OK, off of the Covid and back onto the Shingles Shot.
PatD and I both are identifying as officially well from the Shingles shots. She has no soreness whatsoever, and I can slightly feel mine if I rub my arm. The Shingles threat should be behind us forever. :)
Well then, stop rubbing it! :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:
As a point of interest, the FDA finally put out a warning(several years ago, 2021 I think) that the Shingrix vaccine can cause GBS (Guillain-Barré syndrome) within 42 days of the first shot.
Of course they did not announce that until 2 weeks after I got the first shot. Having had GBS, I am always very sensitive to any vaccine warning and side effects. If you have never heard of GBS look into it, NOT FUN!
It is not a huge risk increase but it is still rather significant. I had shingles back in 2017 and was ready to get the vaccine when I became eligible. Did all the appropriate research and said good to go. Two weeks later they announce the warning. Good news is I did not get GBS again but I would not have gotten the vaccine if the warning had come out just 2 weeks earlier.
It elicited a pretty strong reaction.
That
Guillain-Barré syndrome, is scary stuff:Guillain-Barre syndrome often begins with tingling and weakness starting in your feet and legs and spreading to your upper body and arms. Some people notice the first symptoms in the arms or face. As Guillain-Barre syndrome progresses, muscle weakness can turn into paralysis.
Signs and symptoms of Guillain-Barre syndrome may include:
- A pins and needles sensation in your fingers, toes, ankles or wrists
- Weakness in your legs that spreads to your upper body
- Unsteady walking or inability to walk or climb stairs
- Difficulty with facial movements, including speaking, chewing or swallowing
- Double vision or inability to move the eyes
- Severe pain that may feel achy, shooting or cramplike and may be worse at night
- Difficulty with bladder control or bowel function
- Rapid heart rate
- Low or high blood pressure
- Difficulty breathing
I would think that since it is a possibility, vaccine recipients should be given a list of the symptoms to be looking for.
It is caused by the immune response and is usually after getting a viral infection. It makes sense that the same immune response can cause it from the vaccine. It is not good but can be recovered from, although it can take years.
FDA Requires a Warning about Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) be Included in the Prescribing Information for Shingrix | FDA (https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/safety-availability-biologics/fda-requires-warning-about-guillain-barre-syndrome-gbs-be-included-prescribing-information-shingrix)
looks like there was an increase in incidence of 3 to 6 patients above the usual rate in the population. not sure if it is causal. that was in several million elder recipients over 3 years or so.
Fact is we were given information and I suppose disclaimer papers to sign with lots written information that neither of us read. :P
I think this was added recently, like in the past few weeks as the data was accumulated and processed. It is very rare and also caused by many viruses potentially. So, the vaccine may prevent getting GBS from the actual viral infection. It is odd but the 2nd shot does not seem to have any correlation with it, if the first one didn't.
We are now 9 days past the booster/2nd shot and with absolutely no arm soreness nor any other negative indicators. thumbs-up
As I posted before, I had a mild case many years ago when in my 50s.
I still get one slight pin prick sensation under my right armpit once in a while where the infection occurred .
doc Is this an anomaly or a result of the long past situation.
We are waiting for the covid booster to be available here and will get it in conjunction with our annual flu shot.
Well Pete, your warranty has since expired. :) that is part of it. It has prob. damaged those nerves. Imagine any piece of equipment almost a hundred years old. you may have to replace tires (knee joints) fix wiring issues (nerves) repair hydraulic pumps (heart) change air filters (lungs). the virus after chicken pox will sequester away from the immune system in the nerves, until older and during a weak immune moment. then the immune system goes after the virus, and the inflammation irritates and may go on to scar and injure those nerves. post herpetic neuralgia. it is interesting that some of the treatment for pain after shingles is "hot sauce" that confuses and interferes with pain signals to reduce pain. that is how a TENS unit works. it is like fantom pain, but you still have the body part.
It prob was especially if you had a rash that follow nerve dermatomes.
(https://post.medicalnewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/03/1296x1680-body.png)
It should not go across the midline front and back. It should be on the right half, or the left half. It was prob shingles if it still bugs you now and then.
I have had shingles at least once a year since 2014. The past few years it's a mild rash and not very painful. The second time I had the rash on my lower right stomach. I have permanent nerve damage on my lower back right side. My doctor put me on Lyrica. If I don't take it, it feels like someone is ripping my back apart. Very painful! I think I have built up some resistance to the Shingles since it isn't as bad the past few times I've had them. I can't get the shot because you need to go at least 2 years without having them.
I got my first shot yesterday and boy is my arm sore. I go back in 2 months for the second booster.
Quote from: doc henderson on September 15, 2023, 02:47:01 AM
I think this was added recently, like in the past few weeks as the data was accumulated and processed. It is very rare and also caused by many viruses potentially. So, the vaccine may prevent getting GBS from the actual viral infection. It is odd but the 2nd shot does not seem to have any correlation with it, if the first one didn't.
Actually the warning was put out on the Shingrix vaccine about GBS, if memory serves me, in April 2021
you are correct. 3-24-21. I did not look at the date, but it referenced a "few weeks ago" in the article.
I got the shingles vaccine this morning at 9:00. Because the physician of a close family member recommends Emily and I get the RSV vaccine , I got that one too. Both in my left arm. EDIT: The close family member has health issues that makes RSV an especially bad virus.
A doctor friend recommends being moderately active after vaccines so in following her advice I mowed grass on the lawn tractor and rode my motorcycle to do some errands.
After all that, I am feeling a bit washed out and my arm is slightly sore. The washed out feeling is similar to the feeling I had after the COVID-19 vaccine. Nothing to worry about but certainly noticeable with a mild headache and some fatigue.
A dose of Tylenol will help.
I got my first Shingles shot at the beginning of October, and got the flue shot at the same time. Got them both in the left shoulder. The shoulder was sore for 2 or 3 days and the area was warm, but I did not really notice other symptoms.
I got my Covid and RSV shots yesterday morning. By evening, my shoulder was sore. Today, the shoulder is more sore and I'm tired and a bit chilled. No other symptoms so far.
My wife's reaction to the shingles shot was quite different. She was out of commission for a couple of days for the first one, and was absolutely miserable for the second one (Seems like it was for almost a week, but it's been a while and I might not be remembering correctly.)
What happened to your wife is why I haven't got mine yet.
I asked my GP who recently asked why I hadn't gotten my second shingles vac yet what the studies showed about the difference in probability of getting shingles after only one shot vs two, and she said "I don't know, there has to be some benefit or they wouldn't say you need to get two." I love it when I get such a definitive answer from a health care professional...
Having seen family members with shingles, I figured risking having a significant reaction was worth it. Shingles is absolutely no fun.
Quote from: YellowHammer on November 01, 2023, 04:13:58 PMI love it when I get such a definitive answer from a health care professional...
What usually happens is that one dose is maybe 90% effective in preventing the disease. Useful, unless you are in the 10%, They can't increase the dose of vaccine because that might make the side effects worse. But if you get 2 shots, you get up to 99% prevention. So even 2 shots isn't a 100% guarantee, but you have to be pretty unlucky to be in the 1%.
Quote from: Ianab on November 02, 2023, 12:53:35 AM
Quote from: YellowHammer on November 01, 2023, 04:13:58 PMI love it when I get such a definitive answer from a health care professional...
But sometimes I would rather get an honest "I don't know" rather than some BS. I had rotator cuff surgery on both my shoulders (not at the same time). My left side hurt WAY more than the right side. I asked my doctor why. His response, "Darned if I know, by the MRIs your right shoulder was much worse." I preferred that honest non answer to some made up story.
Doug in SW IA
Selling two units and two office visits instead of one, yea there is "some benefit" to it, at least to "someone".
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. :) Southside beat me to it.
Jim, cmon. most doc offices and pharmacies get whatever your insurance pays for the labor to give the shot and pay (if not provided by the government) for the shot. I think in practice we made 14 bucks for giving a shot. I can tell you for most of us, it is a service and not a money maker. i.e a pain in the ash when staff is low. My wife just resigned due to not enough staff to be safe. If you do not want a shot, then do not get it.
Quote from: Southside on November 02, 2023, 08:21:43 AM
Selling two units and two office visits instead of one, yea there is "some benefit" to it, at least to "someone".
None of the doctors in my area have any need to drum up extra business. Many are not taking new clients as it is. Further, they have no input as to the recommended frequency of vaccinations.
One dose is 90% effective. The second dose pushes this to 99% effective.
You can get these at CVS or other pharmacies. They don't charge an office visit and insurance covers the costs of the vaccine. The Shingryx vaccine is a real advance over what we had previously. The need for a second dose is a common part of certain vaccine regimens and may become more common as we better understand and attempt to optimize our immune systems.
If you are going to make the effort to get the first shot, basically eliminating your risk of getting shingles with the second dose makes a lot of sense. If you know an adult who has suffered with the disease, you know what I mean. I have never had one of them tell me, after months of Shingles pain, that they are glad they didn't get the shot.
My grandfather had the shingles, like I said earlier. It was no pleasure experience. Back and shoulders. Mom had a mild case and took the antibiotics, then the shots a few weeks later. She only had a rash around the belt line, pills cleared it up quick.
I also had a co worker with shingles, she was in her late 50's. This was 25 years ago. She never had any fun either.
In med school we got hep B vaccine. three shots, and then a titer to see if we responded. there were a handful out of 200 that did not respond. they ended up taking a second round. It was a small enough number that it could be confirmed. It was uncurable back then, so deemed important for health care folk. In the gen. pop. you do not confirm but do the number that gets the vast majority of people protected. there would have been some that were fine after a single dose, but may not last forever, and some that are not protected even after 2 doses. that gets to the 99%. I never got covid that I can prove. 8 inches from the faces of the critically ill covid patients. but corona virus is a common cold in kids, and I have 40 years of being in their faces. I prob. had some natural immunity.
Well Doc the "someone" is also big pharma, the insurance companies, hospitals, etc. Case in point. My wife had to have a minor surgery two years back. While she was out the surgeon decided to administer something, I don't recall what it was, anyway we get a $2,500 bill for this part, in addition to the rest of the bills, that insurance refuses to pay. Claimed it was "medically un-necessary". Hospital and the surgeon said - "pay the bill or else". Someone want to explain to me how she was supposed to make an informed decision and consent to that part of the procedure? I don't want to hear a peep about the "poor down trodden" medical industry after all the events of the past few years. I am not saying either of you two are bad people or doctors, but your industry has some significant work ahead of it if it ever wants the trust of the population again.
Quote from: doc henderson on November 02, 2023, 04:42:49 PMI never got covid that I can prove. 8 inches from the faces of the critically ill covid patients. but corona virus is a common cold in kids, and I have 40 years of being in their faces. I prob. had some natural immunity.
Kids are fantastic carriers of viruses however. Lil being a kindy teacher has probably been exposed to pretty much every virus in circulation, similar to yourself. And with our 2 kids at different schools I suspect every bug in town finds it's way here at some point.
Lil did test positive for Covid, but only had "cold" symptoms for maybe 2 days, Only actually stayed home because of the test. The other 3 of us had no symptoms, so didn't test. Maybe we had asymptomatic infections? Who can say.
It's interesting that Shingles is actually caused by the chickenpox virus. Chickenpox was always considered to be just a nuisance disease for kids, but once you recover your body doesn't eliminate all the virus, and it can lurk and flare up again later on, as your immune system ages and gets weaker. Chickenpox vaccine is now part of kids regular vaccination schedule, hopefully that will reduce the incidence of shingles in years to come?
As for side effects? One is you hope they are a lot less than the disease you are trying to prevent. Most would agree a sore arm of a couple of days is better than an outbreak of shingle. But if you've taken young kids for their routine shots, you know they are often a bit "upset" for a couple of days after. Tired / grumpy etc. No reason a vaccine won't have the same effect on an adult, maybe more because we know how quick a 3 year old bounces back from having a cold virus.
actually, our hospital lost millions of dollars this past year, and everyone fired in the C suite. the company I work for lost 10 times that amount and was pleased that we lost less than many of the other ED staffing companies, some of whom are now bankrupt. The last pharmacy my wife worked at could not hire any more Pharmacists, and she felt unsafe. Left late every night and still 500 prescriptions to fill. a week behind. Now 2 weeks retired. I am hiring docs to work I do not know. It is a poo show for sure, and there isn't a dang thing I can do about it.
It will be interesting to see if the CP vaccine confers the same long-lasting immunity as having had the disease.
Jim I am sure the open-ended consent made some reference to things in the operation, but you would have needed a lawyer to figure that out. I would want a detail of what it was and why it was needed. whether it was not needed, or the doc needs to document medical necessity to get paid. Sometime the insurance just makes it so hard to collect that we give up and take a loss. or it gets passed on to the patient.
The business plan I was taught in medical school, was take good care of the patient and the money will follow. I have only turned one patient to collections in my career and used to waive deductibles and copays for any employee of the hospital worked at, till insurance said we could not do that for those patients unless we did it for all including all their patients.
The US medical system is a source of bemusement to most the developed world.
It costs 2 or 3 times more than any other 1st World country, but doesn't realy deliver any better over all health care. I think Southside is right with blaming the overall drug / insurance / legal /. hospital system. But that's not something front line medical staff have any control over.
So not faulting the front line Docs, as they are some of the best, and have the high tech tools and training. But the crazy billing and insurance system is just mind-boggling. Politics / lawyers / insurance? What % of "health spending" goes into that, vs actual health care, as in Drs pay and needed drugs / operations?
If I get a script from my Doc, they email to my local pharmacy, and I pick it up next day. There is NO quibbles about cost and what's covered or not. If it's on the "approved drug" list, a Dr can prescribe it. If you NEED hospital care, you get it.
And I know it's not "free health care". We all pay for it via taxes. Just it seems cheaper and less gotchas that come back and bill you later .
My family doctor has been out of commission for awhile with illness. So I go to the ER at a small hospital and get processed in no time. I don't wait more than 5 mins to get on with it. This is not the same everywhere in ER's. If I was to go to the regional I could wait hrs. The advantages of small hospitals. I have to get BP meds every 3 months since this summer. Hard to believe that, bad genes I guess. Never smoked, not overweight and get all kinds of exercise and the right kind of food. Go figure. :D
If you can, please share what was administered to your wife. Your recounting is disturbing to me, and I'm sorry to hear it.
While I believe your wife's story regarding her surgery, some of it makes little sense to my understanding of how things work. Your insurance pays the bills, and determined that some form of treatment wasn't medically indicated. So they balked. The hospital is the person responsible here, not your wife. As you said, she didn't consent to this treatment, and they apparently didn't contact you for permission either. I agree with doc H that they used something in the global consent for surgery to assume they had permission to administer it. There is a pre-authorization process with elective procedures. This treatment undoubtedly wasn't included in that. This sounds like the insurance company interpreted the treatment as outside of the surgical procedure, and thus unauthorized. You should not be responsible for this charge. Have you sat down with the hospital and tried to hash this out? My bet is that it can be resolved. I have seen this type of thing before, and sitting down with a person from the finance office usually straightens it out. Listening only to the bill-collector side of the hospital finance department won't get you anywhere but angry.
While I am sympathetic to your side in this dispute, I don't think your wife's example really correlates well with the discussion about one or two shot vaccines. As you said, you have distrust, and distrust can flow everywhere.
I get flu shots every year, this year I didn't even get a sore arm. Covid vaccines were virtually unnoticeable but the first chicken pox vaccine hit like a ton of bricks, worst reaction I've ever had. Fever for a couple nights, aching muscles. I didn't get anything done for day 2 and 3 and then started feeling better day 4. So it's time for my second shingle shot and I go to CVS and ask if that was "normal" and the answer was yes, and the second will be noticeably worse. So seeing as how I couldn't take three or four days for feeling like a truck had run me over, I passed that day. So now I have basically until the end of the year to carve out a time to feel sick for a week. Not an easy thing to volunteer for. However I do know folks who have had shingles and I don't want that, either. So I'll do it, but I have to get into the right "zen" frame of mind step in front of that speeding truck again.
It is good to set that expectation, and plan for it. I hope you are pleasantly surprised and have min. side effects. that is also possible.
Doc - I just asked her, she recalls the matter but not exactly what it was, but she knows where the paperwork is so will pull it up. At the time I recall she made a number of calls to the insurance, the hospital, and the surgeon and at the end of the day we were told to pay or it would go to collections. Yes, maybe we could have hired a lawyer, but what if that didn't gain us any ground? Then I have to pay the shark and the bill. They got paid, and if it was me and not my wife paying the bill it would have been via wheelbarrow and pennies. I will get you the info after she pulls it up.
Well, I am sorry. our hospital has a policy of transparency. i will help anyway I can, but prob. water under the bridge anyway. If the insurance deems it unnecessary, that may be true, or poss. they are trying to get out of paying, or the Doc and hospital did not document enough. I am not part of the billing other than being asked to add to the document if it is lacking. the medical records people look at what is needed for billing but are not allowed to come right out and say it. That would be considered padding the bill. some docs are good and other still scratch 3 lines on a form like the good Ol days. I would be in the latter category if it were up to me. Just give me a couple chickens or some eggs!
My second Shingles shot was a non event compared to the first. Even after the soreness of the first shot, I was not going to forego the second shot.
I have friends who have gone through the misery of Shingles and I wanted all of the protection possible.
Doc - no apology necessary, like I said that was not directed at either doc here, but the industry as a whole has lost a lot of faith over the past few years with a lot of folks. The move toward larger corporate entities with golden parachute CEO's as the top is part of the problem.
Our little electric co-op CEO makes $1.3MM a year, I met the last guy, he was Mr Potato Head at best. They sent me a quote to install a service meter to power a well last week. Simple meter off the service line, single phase, 40' of underground cable to the meter box, just over $5K. Umm - nope I can do a solar set up for $1,500 and never pay a monthly bill, but that won't help the CEO now will it?
I got my second shingles shot last Tuesday and it made my arm sorer than the first one. I don't know if it helped or hurt that I sawed lumber the next day and kept lifting heavy board and scrap slabs and such. Its finally much better now.
I am a proponent of working through most pain (not broken bones) and feeling better than if you shut down and sit and think about. Pain is pain but it is made worse with and emotional psychological component. use gets blood flow to the area and may help reduce swelling. a sprain to the ankle needs ICE. Ice, compression (ace wrap) and or elevation.
If you haven't got the shots, trust me you don't want the other. I layed on the couch for 9 day not daring to move unless I really had too.
This is ridiculous, I finally found a hole in my schedule and got the second shot at 2pm this afternoon, and at 10 pm I'm shivering and teeth chattering. Amazing speed of a reaction. My immune system must be on full speed ahead.
Still better than a case of the Shingles though?
I guarantee a little shivering is a lot milder than the shingles. :D
Captains log:
3:31 am, 100.7 F fever, shoulders and back sore, headache. I contemplate the reason behind the "fun" and assume this is worth the extra 5% chance of not getting shingles over the first shot.
Up because of the coyotes are barking in the holler.
A couple Tylenol, some water, and I'm web surfing about a long range hunting rifle that I can shoot out the window from my bed, across the dove field, into the valley and whack these howling mutts. At night.
While I'm shivering. Without waking Martha up.
Anybody got one?
I tell myself to quit being a whiner, got to be tough like the folks on the Forum, and so life is good again.
Y'all have a good night!
Hang in there and hope you get to feeling better!!
Quote from: YellowHammer on December 11, 2023, 11:06:46 PM
I hate to hear that. I got the first shot about a week ago. No reaction to it at all other than a sore arm the next day. I go back in February for the second one. But I did get the old vaccine years ago.
I've watched several people including my wife go through the shingles. You don't want them! Praying you feel better today.
After listening to horror stories from my older brother
and BIL who both got Shingles about the same time, both in their
early to mid sixties I signed up for the vaccine without hesitation.
First shot just a sore arm, 2nd shot 6 mos later sore arm and some fatigue, headache but nothing serious. One less thing to make life miserable.
Hope you are felling better soon. I watched my mother and my wife go through actually having shingles years ago. MUCH worse than their reactions to the vaccination (which they both got this year). My wife was told she had a more moderate case of shingles when she had it. On her second shingle vaccination she was down and out for about 36 hours with chills, fever, aches. She said she'd rather take a solid week of that vaccine reaction before she'd go through another case of "moderate" shingles.
I hate to read this Robert, but hopefully last night was your worst. Also thankfully this one was your last. I don't recall reading where anyone suffered the reaction that you are having. (well John Mc just posted one about his wife)
My reactions were similar to woodroe's above with only soreness which took a while to go away.
Quote from: YellowHammer on December 12, 2023, 04:37:43 AMI'm web surfing about a long range hunting rifle that I can shoot out the window from my bed, across the dove field, into the valley and whack these howling mutts. At night
So you looking at thermals now? I can tell you which cow pies are fresher than the others through mine.
I don't think so, last night I was looking for a grenade launcher.
I went to the Shingrix site and this popped up as "normal" reactions:
The most common side effects of SHINGRIX are:
Pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site
Muscle pain
Tiredness
Headache
Shivering
Fever
Upset stomach
I'm sure I'll be better tomorrow, but I had been told by so many people that this reaction would happen, including my Dr. and the Pharmacist yesterday, who said "expect two to three days of down time" that I had waited until my window to get the second shot was just about closed.
I will also say, it's not a good idea to order Zaxbys Chicken Finger Meal with Extra Fries, before getting the shot. I paid for that poor decision last night......
In all seriousness I find loudly shutting a vehicle door or some other type of noise like that will shut them up in a hurry. Maybe it's because the ones around me are accustomed to that car door sounding noise causing uncle Carl to roll over and play dead, but whatever works.
It's over, I went to bed last night with a 99F, a slight chill, and woke up sweating through the bedsheets. Yesterday, I could barely move my neck, felt like a truck had rung over me, and this morning I feel normal, my neck doesn't hurt, the headache is gone, and it's as if nothing happened, except it's Wednesday.
The thing is, I get vaccines for Flu yearly, certainly Covid, lots of crazy vaccines when I worked and travelled for Uncle Sam, and I have never had a reaction like this, which according to the several people I talked to, is not unusual.
Oh, well, it's Zaxby's under the bridge, and I BETTER NOT get shingles!!! :D :D :D :D
Welcome back to the land of the living. 8)
What a difference a day makes. Glad your up and around again.
You survived all the headaches and sweats and now you're ready for fighting. :D
Wife just went through the same thing as you. Same exact symptoms, other than the injection site issues. Only she never got the shot. ::)
You always remember a nasty vaccine reaction, and soon forget the 20 others that were almost nothing.
But some work as advertised and others don't for more than 3 or 4 months. ;D
I will pull mine back too
Quote from: doc henderson on December 14, 2023, 04:21:00 AM
what? Oh I see you pulled some back. :)
What I pulled back are results in an population study in Austria with 100,000's of patients on COVID-19. We'll leave that from this thread.
And he is on his way to buy that long range rifle!!!!
My wife is like that. Any side affects, she probably will get it. :(
I thought you were talking about the shingles shot. too busy to concentrate on the study.
Edited the previous post to keep the thread on Shingles and not go down other paths. :)
Got my shingles shot today. Mild sore arm. Also had my annual physical and got my foot pain looked at. Plantar Fasciitis. Ordered my shoe inserts and started my stretching. Hope to clear it up before I'm back at the cabin.