Clark 667d grapple skidder

Snowdemon · February 09, 2021, 12:47:24 AM

I was not thinking that was the cause of the initial problem but just another issue at have.
Kiko where is the best spot to rig up the transmission to pick it out? Get my balance about right and all .

mike_belben · February 09, 2021, 07:37:08 AM

I looked too quickly, saw the yoke and thought it was the trans. Lock and stitch probably wont be the right choice.

Cast iron right?

I think id try to replace it. If thats not possible i might vee it out slightly and try to tig it up with nyrod 99 or other silicon bronze type filler. A low melting temp material so as not to distort the housing. But its gonna need a pre and post heat and slow cooldown. Probably should be gutted to do it.

Snowdemon · February 09, 2021, 02:06:42 PM

Think it could be ran with that crack for the 20-40 hours I might put on it in a normal year? I work a full time job this is for some thinning on about 200 acres.. Until retirement in 7-10 of I'm lucky then maybe more after that.

mike_belben · February 09, 2021, 03:43:44 PM

if oil is oozing out id fix it. if not id probably try to run it and keep tabs.

if the answer isn't obvious clean the area real good and put some paint liberally on the crease. that way if the paint cracks again you know its reopening at some point. it is also possible that the crack is on the suction side of the thing and lets in air. i have no idea what I'm really even looking at.. just that hydraulic housings either hold fluid pressure in or ambient air out, generally speaking. if that housing still does so, maybe you can get by with it.

the lock and stitch is a good system but if there is a machined interior surface and a component there it would be a challenge to make that work.

Snowdemon · February 09, 2021, 04:43:35 PM

I thought I had said it was on the converter housing but I might have left that out.. So it's on the converter housing right next to the hydraulic pump that tons the steering and blade I believe..

I don't know or don't think there is any pressure on that side but I really don't have any idea I'm not familiar with how that operates. But it is like a automatic transmission then it would probably have fluid in there.

kiko · February 09, 2021, 07:16:21 PM

No pressure right there just splash lube for the accessory pump drive gears. Scratch ,clean it and JB it. I am not familiar with swinge set up. Does the swinger have a dedicated pump? The fixed grapple clarks I have dealt with had two pumps driven off the torque converter housing. The cast steel case housing pump is hydraulic and the aluminum housing pump is the transmission pump.

Snowdemon · February 10, 2021, 01:52:19 AM

Kiko
Yes a total of 3 pumps driven off converter. Two hydraulic and the one charge pump.
Two separate hydraulic tanks one for bade-steering one for the swing grapple.

Where do you pick from on the tranny for correct balance. Hoping to do that this week other things got in the way again and did a little clean up so I could find the bolts tonight.

kiko · February 10, 2021, 04:18:45 PM

We would remove a bolt from the rear cover and one from the front. With longer bolt, 7/16 I think, hook a chain.

Snowdemon · February 10, 2021, 06:24:00 PM

Kiko

Would you spend the time to drill the end of the crack and just fill the hole with epoxy so it won't leak? That way the crack wouldn't run anymore. Ya I know not the "correct" fix but a little more then just a cover up fix.

kiko · February 10, 2021, 07:44:40 PM

IMO i would just put the weld in a tube on it. A debur bit gives the weld glue something to grab . The only way to fix it correctly is to replace the housing. You seem to familiar with equipment . I would get into the transmission first to make the decision how much money your willing to spend. A full on rebuild including torque converter and charge/transmission pump may be in order because of contamination from the clutch failure. The charge pump has an aluminum housing and inside of the pump will almost certainly be damaged. If you it do yourself I will help you the whole way through, brings back the glory days.

Snowdemon · February 10, 2021, 09:45:21 PM

Kiko..
So the way I look at the book where the second gear clutch pack is... Is there a reason I have to pull the tranny out? Can't I just pull the front cover off while it's in the machine and get two if not all three clutch packs out the front? Little tighter then doing on the shop bench but wouldn't have to borrow the boom truck and un hook more hydraulic hoses.

kiko · February 10, 2021, 09:54:34 PM

By removing the front cover you can access both clutch sides of the reverse third clutch shaft. You can also access the forward side only of the forward second. You can see in the parts diagram that the F2 shaft slides through the case and the a gear and snap ring is installed on that shaft. The rear section must be removed to access that snap ring.

kiko · February 10, 2021, 09:59:29 PM

Hold that thought.

kiko · February 10, 2021, 10:10:22 PM

Stated above is correct. The gear and snap ring is actually on the R3 shaft. R3 can be pulled off the large splined gear that goes in side 3rd fiber clutches The rear cover and low clutch would have to be removed to get to another snap ring to remove F2 .

kiko · February 10, 2021, 10:17:38 PM

kiko · February 10, 2021, 10:35:52 PM

. To remove the front cover other than the obvious . This plug must be removed and this snap ring help open while removing the front cover. Use snap ring pliers held open with a zip tie.

the R3 shaft may try to come out with the front cover. The input yolk does not have to be removed at this point neither do the two bolts at the bottom with the tie wire.

Satamax · February 10, 2021, 11:01:05 PM

Well, i don't know the machine, nor the cast iron type.

If it was for myself, i think i would try to repair the crack. Thought, that might lead to the case's replacement.

If it is grey or white cast iron, it's doable. If black, impossible. I'm by no mean expert. But i have done two repairs on cast iron, on my iveco's axle.

I guess the crack has been started by the flange bolt facing it's end. Too tight in an improperly threaded hole may be.

What i would do, groove less than half way through the crack. And stitch weld. With 312-16 or 312-17 electrode.

What i mean by that. Do a dot of welding in the middle of the length of the crack one at the bolt's end. Peen the weld, with a drill punch or pointy hammer. Cover with rockwool or superwool. Wait till it's cold to the touch. Do two dots of welding, next to the previous ones, welding into those. Going away from the bolt. Peen the weld. Cover, and let cool down. Don't do dots any bigger than 1/2 3/4 at the very maximum. Don't get carried away, let it cool thoroughly. Covering it each time you weld. And progress slowly like that until you have the crack covered.

If you hear "cling cling" when the metal is cooling down, it's "dead"

Been searching for the pics. Can't seem to find these. I will post later if i manage to dig these.

mike_belben · February 11, 2021, 11:05:09 AM

put moderate heat on it post weld so you DO NOT hear any ping cling ding ting.

im not familiar with those fillers max mentioned offhand but in cast repairs i don't do the weld cool weld cool weld thing at all and have not seen it recommended in any welding books i can recall. i have seen a lot of guys on 4wd forums telling each other to do that in order to weld trusses onto axle housings without warping them but in me experience its a waste of time. i had a dummy 3rd with pucks to hold a stress proof rod for axle building and as soon as you hit the first bead the housing will pull no matter what you do. its gonna need straightening after for the axle seals to stay concentric to the diff carrier bearings. i lashed housings to a heavy machine table then warmed em up and welded em up in one period with additional heating if it was a lengthy period. then after, either bottle jacked or torched and quenched them back into alignment with the jig for a gauge.

I've welded different housing flanges onto turbochargers and I've welded turbo flanges onto OEM cast iron exhaust manifolds to make factory like turbo manifolds, all with success, by warming the entire part usually over or in a wood stove before welding with interpass heat if clinking started.. and then a slow cool by putting it back in or on the stove and letting it go out naturally.

quickly waving around a rose bud or weed burner tip can work too. you don't want any large temperature differences across the part. the whole part should be hot or cold if at all possible for any high stress cast welding application. exhaust manifolds live between -50 and glowing red with 75lbs of turbo bouncing off the end, but they don't when one part of a manifold is at another temp extreme from the other so keep that in mind. cast wants an even temp.

you can't go wrong with peening either, it relieves some of the internal stresses that make the ping ting dings

Satamax · February 11, 2021, 11:43:51 AM

Mike, the weld cool weld cool, is in order not to heat the part. Or barely. It takes forever. But that's the quick and dirty technique for this kind of job.

The proper one being dismantling everything. Putting the housing in a oven. Warm to 400c° over 24 hours. Put it in a warmed bed of sand. With the crack just barely over the surface. Then weld either with high nickel content rods, or 312 type rods. Peen the weld. And cover. Let it cool down as slow as possible. A week being a good idea.

Iirc, there is the dogbone type of stitches, for repairing.

Snowdemon · February 11, 2021, 11:59:08 AM

Kiko
So in previous discussions on the topic we were thinking that the second gear in the tranny could be bad. If I decided to pull the front cover off I would not be able to access both clutch packs in the second gear am I following that correctly? So it sounds like maybe I should just plan on pulling the transmission so I can get to both sides of the clutch pack. I would hate to just replace part and find out that that was not the issue. Or could I pull the front off and if I don't find an issue then pull the rest of the transmission out after that?
Thoughts?

mike_belben · February 11, 2021, 03:00:17 PM

i would never be satisfied without seeing every part. i could never just roll bearings into a motor or whatever.

kiko · February 11, 2021, 05:30:39 PM

Pulling the front cover will give access to the reverse, third and forward only. Of course it would be no more of an issue to remove the transmission if you pulled the cover first.

Snowdemon · February 11, 2021, 06:21:33 PM

That was my thought.. So front cover coming off tonight sounds like

Snowdemon · February 11, 2021, 11:22:39 PM

So found my issue.. Bearing on from of drum going out.. That was the cage I found.. Another bearing on a idler gear also on way out.
Looks like someone had been in here before with the brazing and some different bolts.

Snowdemon · February 11, 2021, 11:28:24 PM

I pulled the drum in the upper right out and looked at clutches and they look fine with no burning or discoloration.
I need a bushing in the front cover and 3 seals that go on the shaft..
Any idea on part numbers for those? Will look at the print of course.
Anything else I should replace on this side while it's open?