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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2017, 08:22:32 PM

Title: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2017, 08:22:32 PM
    Anybody selling crib blocks? What is the going rate in your area?

    My next door neighbor asked me if I had any the other day. He was working on his daughter's house and had to jack it up to work on it. I figured maybe others had similar needs so I sawed up a couple of my ash logs into about 2 dozen 6"X 6"X 24" crib blocks.

     Right now I am thinking about a dollar a bf but that seems too low for the amount of work involved there. I'm just cutting 6X6 cants then marking 24" length with a carpenter square, cutting a couple inch groove with a circular saw then coming back and finishing with a small chainsaw. Pretty slow and labor intensive and if I did a lot I'd have to come up with a better system.

   I got about 10-12 dozen 5' tomato stakes and similar amount of 3' or 2' stickers for use around the mill. I sell them for $10/dz.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on June 22, 2017, 08:51:02 PM
I do them outta hardwood.  $1.50/bf log length, $2/bf cut to length.  Most people just take them log length and they cut themselves. 
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: Ohio_Bill on June 22, 2017, 09:37:25 PM
Around here I'm lucky to get .60 per bf for 6 by 6, s.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on June 22, 2017, 09:53:04 PM
I have all I can do to keep up with my wholesale accounts demand so if they don't like the price then they can go somewhere else
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2017, 10:24:31 PM
   Thanks guys. Sounds like I may not be too far off for a starting point. I am not too far from you Bill and we may have similar markets.

    4X4 - you may be in a little better economy or earned some good customers. I will see what the market will bear here as we are pretty depressed economically.

   I think there is a little manual mill in about every other holler around here and folks think they can get, and people will promise, to cut lumber for $.20-$.25/bf (even though they never get around to cutting it for them). I'm not going to sell for less than my cost to produce. I've cut logs that sat at other mills over a year and attempted to cut nice log piles that had ruined from sitting too long.

    I like the log length idea and may offer that as an option although long term storage and handling could become an issue. I can store 2' long stuff in every nook and cranny and can handle them by hand.

    Another thing though is I figure crib blocks may be an option for real short stuff. I had a decent little 4' ash log I cut today. Made 4 crib blocks, 2 pretty little live edge 2" benches and everything else became stickers.

   Some of my tops and big limbs I used to sell to a wedge mill 1/4 mile away but with the downturn in coal mining that market has been gone long before I got my mill. I used to be able to sell everything over 6" diameter and 12" long for that. Maybe that market will come back. We will see.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: paul case on June 22, 2017, 10:25:45 PM
I have sold some and they pay me $1 bdft and up on them cut to length. One place has bought several from me that were 11x11-2' and 12x12-2'. HEAVY.

PC
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on June 22, 2017, 10:30:43 PM
   Thanks Paul. I will see what kind of responses I get from an ad in our local trader. I wonder if a thinner block might sell such as a 3" X 6" X 2'. Would be handy to have when they needed a little less height. I can always offer that when a customer calls.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: paul case on June 22, 2017, 10:40:47 PM
The buyers I have for them are trucking companies for their shop, a crane outfit that uses them to set under machines and such, and another company that uprights tipped over train cars. A friend of mine sells a lot of 4x6-48'' to a pipeline co to set pipe on to weld it together before burying it. I use some 3x5-8' on my trailer.

PC
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on June 23, 2017, 05:19:38 AM
The thing is hardwood down by you is prolly very common wheras up here its alot of softwood and I can name you ten different sawmills within 10 miles of my sawmill, some are manual mills and some are circle mills some are big some are medium and some are small. The thing is they're mostly sawing pine and if they do saw hardwood they are gonna take their sweet time and may not be able to compete with the qty I have.  I don't even try to compete with pine lumber there are two big producers of pine lumber within 5 miles of me and then the amish.  I sold some 12x12's for some sort of dunnage to a local lumber retailer not long ago and they took it off my truck and put it on their customers for probably 20% markup.  We've got alot of industry around here and they eat it up.  I do lose customers for hardwood dunnage they say they can get it in pine for less so I ask why they aint went and got it yet lol another thing is that for good grade hardwood logs there is alot of competition with big mills and canada and china.  There are concentration yards who get so much more apparently by shipping the logs out of the country in containers they wont even talk to me anymore.  I offered to buy their low grade they want $400/mbf picked up.  I can buy cants delivered for less and have less work to get to a finished product.  I dont think this isnmaking much sense anymore I'm off to work got a load of #4 saw logs should be there by 6 from one of the big grade mills
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: Ohio_Bill on June 23, 2017, 06:54:11 AM
Hardwood dunnage is my bread and butter. The hardwood log market around here has been flooded for over a year and I can buy low grade logs from the large mills for 200 a thousand. I stopped logging last year because it's cheaper for me to buy them.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on June 23, 2017, 06:58:29 AM
Yup I pay anywhere from 65-240/mbf for low grade logs.  I have the log truck from this morn on camera leaving here at 4:45am lol...I know he came from about an hr away too, not sure when he pulled in but dang thats an early day huh
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: Bert on June 23, 2017, 08:02:35 AM
oh wow.  $0.40/ bf here on a good day. thats hardwood, cut to length and delivered.

Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: killamplanes on June 23, 2017, 04:35:54 PM
Low grade near worthless around here to.  Supply and demand is no where near lined up..
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: fishfighter on June 23, 2017, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Bert on June 23, 2017, 08:02:35 AM
oh wow.  $0.40/ bf here on a good day. thats hardwood, cut to length and delivered.

So, you are selling at .40 a BF. Is a 12"x12"x12" = to 12 BF? $4.80 per foot? I'm a newbee, just trying to learn something. ;D
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on June 23, 2017, 05:48:40 PM
Quote from: fishfighter on June 23, 2017, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Bert on June 23, 2017, 08:02:35 AM
oh wow.  $0.40/ bf here on a good day. thats hardwood, cut to length and delivered.

So, you are selling at .40 a BF. Is a 12"x12"x12" = to 12 BF? $4.80 per foot? I'm a newbee, just trying to learn something. ;D


12x12x12 is 144 bf at $.40/bf = $57.60 (plus tax ;D )


so yes $4.80/LF







Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: fishfighter on June 23, 2017, 07:09:12 PM
I did put that 12x12x12 in inches. :D
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: longtime lurker on June 23, 2017, 07:11:24 PM
We do them. Prices wont translate so well but I see it this way...

A good board aint worth less because you hacked it into short lengths so the rate per BF/linear foot/whatever should remain the same or increase. So if you ring me an order them you're going to pay as much or more as you would for the whole board.

We do do some cheaper crib blocks but they're random sizes/lengths off the docking saw where boards have dropped out of grade. We stick it on a pallet, wrap it, and you get the whole pallet of the stuff for $350. Mechanics tend to like them.


As an aside, worrying about what someone down the road charges to do a job is pointless. Figure out what it costs you, whack a profit on top and... thats the price. Theres a whole slew of little mills around here too and all of them are cheaper then me but I get more work then the lot of them put together. Cut a good board and deliver on time and don't apologise for your price or your product: It's that good/fast/cheap thing, and people expect to pay for service.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on June 23, 2017, 07:33:30 PM
Quote from: longtime lurker on June 23, 2017, 07:11:24 PM
As an aside, worrying about what someone down the road charges to do a job is pointless. Figure out what it costs you, whack a profit on top and... thats the price. Theres a whole slew of little mills around here too and all of them are cheaper then me but I get more work then the lot of them put together. Cut a good board and deliver on time and don't apologise for your price or your product: It's that good/fast/cheap thing, and people expect to pay for service.

LL,

   Decent point. I was just wondering if there seems to be a market for them and sort of testing the waters as to how people price them. Initially I have priced mine at the same bf rate as I do 8/4 or 4/4 boards of the same species. 4X4's suggestion about selling them in log length was an excellent point and I may try that to cut down on processing time and costs, a savings I can pass a long to interested customers. I don't intend to intentionally lose money because others may be able to produce and sell them cheaper nor do I expect to get rich off them. Any lumber I sell off my property is from thinning excess (Poplar and Spruce) or salvage (Ash, cherry & walnut) that died or fell.

   This was also sort of a back door way way to find potential customers in the area. I have posted before (and almost gotten in trouble) about not worrying about how much profit someone else can make off my services or products.

   So far what the responses show me is:

1. There is a potential market
2.  Some members sell them for lots less than I can/will produce them for
3.  Some members sell them for a good bit more than I will likely get around here.
4.  Selling in longer lengths may be another option I had not thought about
5.  Bottom line is I have cut a few and have a pricing scheme that works for me and I'll test the local waters.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: Bert on June 24, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
The guys with campers will pay pretty good for them. Find yourself one guy in a campground and he will tell his camper buddies. Im no camper but guess you crib them up to take weight off the tires if it will be sitting awhile. Thats my best paying marked for cribs.... otherwise its the price above for actual industry uses.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on June 24, 2017, 09:13:29 PM
Bert,

   Thanks for the suggestion. I have a load to take to a flea market tomorrow and will pass a couple of campgrounds along the way and may stop and show them one and see if they need any. I could imagine them possibly wanting some wider, thinner stuff like 12X12X3 or such.

   We have many campgrounds in the area and I'll be sure to visit them all in the near future.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: paul case on July 07, 2017, 10:18:45 PM
I just got a call today from a repeat customer that moves some big equipment. Seems this time it is some oil field equipment and they need 4- 18''x18''-8'. I just happen to have some logs that will make those so I quoted them at $175 each. I wouldnt attempt then without a good loader or forklift.

That is gona be Dakota and Paul's Saturday morning!

PC
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on July 07, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
Dang that's cheap...I'd be at a buck fifty/bf for that.  Them are some big doggone timbers
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: WV Sawmiller on July 07, 2017, 11:03:46 PM
4x4,

   I'd say that was very reasonable but key notes were it was a repeat customer, long lengths and I did not see species mentioned. I assume it took about a 24" SE log to produce something like that. I also find most customers are pretty tolerant about a little wane of something of that nature, not that Paul would produce or sell such.

   I found a local CL ad wanting crib blocks. He wanted oak but I responded and offered ash and he agreed. I offered to cut whatever size he wanted and show him how the mill operated. He came down with his 11 y/o foster child and I had an 8' log about 12" SE ready to demo. We talked and I cut it mostly in 2X8 and he bought the whole log right off the mill as he said he needed the 4/4 side lumber for shims and such and was thrilled at the process and being able to show his son.  It was a fun quick demo and I think he will be back.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on July 07, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Different areas too.  Big hardwoods aren't easy to come by around here..plus NY is prolly more expensive in every aspect.  And hey whats wrong with wayne hes a good enough guy just a little rough around the edges thats all
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: paul case on July 07, 2017, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 07, 2017, 11:03:46 PM
4x4,

   I'd say that was very reasonable but key notes were it was a repeat customer, long lengths and I did not see species mentioned. I assume it took about a 24" SE log to produce something like that. I also find most customers are pretty tolerant about a little wane of something of that nature, not that Paul would produce or sell such.

   I found a local CL ad wanting crib blocks. I think he will be back.
Indeed it was a several times repeat customer that is generally promp to pick up when I get them cut out. I absolutely will sell a little wane on these as the 18'' tall and tough is the big thing. He told me that a 12'' solid face would work fine and the logs are 20 to 22''  so ther will be some bark. If it had to be shorts or no bark $1 bdft for sure.
Quote from: 4x4American on July 07, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Different areas too.  Big hardwoods aren't easy to come by around here..plus NY is prolly more expensive in every aspect.  And hey whats wrong with wayne hes a good enough guy just a little rough around the edges thats all
Oak is not hard to come by here and these will be post oak that cost me $.35 bdft doyle. Pine however I cannot seem to find. I have had feelers out looking for a gooseneck load I could pick up somewhere but nothing. I need them to cut out some 1x2 strips for 2 local Baptist disaster relief groups to use for tarp hold down strips on houses with roof damage. I do this at no charge and usually stuff that only costs me shows up fast and long, but I have been looking since February and found nothing. :-\

PC
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: Ron Wenrich on July 08, 2017, 06:39:26 AM
We always cut our cribbing from the low grade from the center of the log.  We looked at what our alternate market was.  For a 6x6, we would be thinking RR tie, and use that as our base price.  We didn't cut them up, and the price was $.50/bf picked up.  We also cut 5½x6x8 used for cribbing under houses when they moved them.  Price was $.50/bf for those.

The best price I got for 4x4 was a specialty item.  They wanted 4x4 clear, quartersawn white oak delivered to NYC.  Price was $4/bf.  They cut it into chocks for RR cars.  We also let them air dry, so there was some extra handling.

We used to cut bridge timbers for Koppers.  When they needed them, they would pay dearly for a 10x17x15.  Those were $1.50/bf.  But, you left a lot of grade on the piece, and you needed good timber.  That market fell apart and we hadn't cut a bridge in 15 yrs. 

The biggest piece of blocking I cut was a 20x20x10 chestnut oak.  We cut 10 of those and delivered them to a NJ band sawyer who wanted to cut 4 10x10s out of each one.  No wane.  We priced them out at a good price.
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: 4x4American on July 08, 2017, 06:54:25 AM
Yup.  If they gave me a big order thats one thing, but when people want a few pieces, I charge more of a retail price.  I can't give pine away around here...its crazy
Title: Re: Anybody selling crib blocks?
Post by: moodnacreek on July 08, 2017, 05:50:47 PM
Used to get  $1  inch for 12x12 but now that nobody can run a chain saw I have to c.t.l. and strap on pallet. I charge $1.35 mixed hard wood to big for our firewood processor, For 8x8 $1 bd. ft.  6x6 $.80   Most goes out at 2 foot. If I had a big cut off line it would be easy but the chain sawing and lifting makes me earn it.