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To me it was too much.

Started by Brad_bb, July 31, 2020, 10:25:03 PM

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Magicman

Regardless of the price, he was correct for not negotiating.  I certainly don't negotiate. 

As far as the price; I charge a third of that for normal sawing so is his specialty sawing price out of line considering his specialty investment?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

richhiway

The real cost of doing business and making a living is very high these days. The sawmill business is probably 50% "hobbyist" that do it part time and make a few dollars on the side.

So you can see in this instance where the two collided.

Of course you can do anything yourself for less,that is why most of us bought a mill to begin with.

Call a plumber lately?

Big difference making a living at something or doing it on the "side".

Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

btulloh

Very interesting discussion. 
HM126

Sixacresand

Probably he charges $900 because there is not a line of pickups and trailers waiting in the parking lot.  That may be the only job he has that week or month.  
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

dgdrls

"Am I off here or? "

I don't think its a question of being "off"
You asked for a service,  a price was given.
Your thought of what it should cost simply framed your go/no-go decision.

Question I have;  is a $1 B/F what other mills charge?  If so, he has no incentive to lower his fee,
Once the price goes down, word spreads and everyone wants that fee and will pull out some crazy coupon for another %10 off.

I suspect you'll mill it with the CSM and be happy you did. 

Best
D






WV Sawmiller

Brad, 

  I have a counterpart with a Lucas slabber one county over that I used a couple years ago to slab a big walnut for me. A little smaller than your ash but similar. I had him cut it into 9/4 slabs and I left the center at 4.5" rather than splitting the pith. His rate was 50 cents per bf. I have sold one of those slabs so far and recovered my sawing and transportation expenses.

   He had a Lucas slabber set up in an old chicken house. He had a big loader outside to unload the log and load the slabs on my trailer. He had a forklift he used to position the log and remove the slabs from the sawing site inside. He had a roller table and as he cut every slab he put small pipe rollers between the slab and the cant and rolled them on to his table where he could get his forklift to them.

    I would have thought a a square inch/square ft price would have been more appropriate than a bf of the finished slab but that was his price and I thought it was reasonable, agreed to it, paid it and I would use him again if I need him. He did very good work.

    In this case I agree the sawyer has a lot of expensive equipment to pay for and maintain and think of him as a skilled tradesman doing the work so I would not consider his pricing out of line. You can always ask him "Can you saw it for ____?" then you decide if he agrees, says no or offers a compromise. In all honesty I don't negotiate on my sawing. I may be able to waive mileage or minimum charges if they are a repeat customer, close by or in an area where I will already be working but I don't normally offer such to new customers. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

Brad_bb

Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 01, 2020, 05:56:38 AM
What do you think the blades cost on the thing. did you talk about hitting iron.
One thing nice about having a higher price he won't have you coming in and wasting his time anymore. :)
We didn't even get to that point.  But I assume like any other bandmill, he hits metal, I pay for the band.
And now we know so he won't be wasting my time either.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Brad_bb

Thanks again everyone for your reactions thoughtful responses.  

I'm not faulting anyone for sticking to their price.  When you have a price you've determined, you should stick to it, and only you can make the decision of whether to change it based on any of the factor involved.  His price just shocked me, and I had a hard time making sense of it.

He said is mill was $80K. One of my afterthoughts was that the guy I use for excavating has more expensive single pieces of equipment than that, but his rate is no where near that.  The crane and operator we've hired is nowhere near that.  Again, it's his prerogative to set his own price and I have no qualm with that, other than there's no way in good conscience I can pay that versus a day or day and a half of my time.

Maybe he only wants to work part time?  I don't know. FYI, his father owns a large pallet company down the road a half mile.  I was buying pallets that day and trying to kill two birds with one stone.  I was planning to have the log hauled and the pallets back hauled.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

WV Sawmiller

Brad,

   Your call and nobody is faulting you for declining that price. You mention his mill is $80k. How much is his loader or forklift and other equipment he will be using? They factor in too. Are there other folks in the area who can do the work? If so what are their rates? Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

I think you should get at least some professional courtesy!  as a fellow sawyer.  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Tom King

I don't have anything to add, but would be curious to know how used his equipment looked.

WV Sawmiller

Doc,

   Do you get a discount from other ER docs? Or maybe at least a little extra KY on the gloves before your exam or such? :D :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Ljohnsaw

Very interesting thread!

Somewhat related.  I had a hydraulic hose split on my SkyTrac for the steering this week.  I could still steer, just not fast movements or it would spray.  About a 18" hose, ¾" outside so 3/8" inside?  Took it to the hydraulic shop and thought about replacing all 4 since they are pretty old.  How much are those fittings, maybe $10 each in bulk?  Probably less?  And the hose is pretty cheap when they buy massive quantities.  I do cash-no-receipt with them for a discount.  So he quotes me the list price first - $65.  Cash is $55.  Only had enough cash for one.  I don't negotiate but probably could have got it for $50.  Could I make it cheaper with screw-on fittings?  Probably, but wouldn't look as nice and I wouldn't have it in the 5 minutes it took them to make it.  When I replaced all the hoses on my Little Monster, the list price was $1,600 IIRC and I got them for $900 cash.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

doc henderson

when I started, we did a lot of "curbside" consults.  I did it for anyone who worked for the hospital.  in the office I would bill "insurance only"  so no copay or deductible or out of pocket.  then the insurance co. said you have to charge us the same as you lowest price to anyone.  so 0$.  Now if we provide service, and no documentation, our malpractice carrier may refuse to cover a claim.  Occ. a fellow doc will pop in a room to get something lanced and or a steri strip or two.  WV you are not supposed to get that checked every week! :o :o :o :D :D :D
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Peter Drouin

The minute you start looking for a discount your wasting his time.
Just like greedy customers. Had one tell me if I can get this job for you to cut the logs I want a % of the bill.
I have timber framers I recommend to the customers and don't ask for $$$.
Maybe lost $$$ I just don't go that low for a buck.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Don P

When people ask what my hourly rate is I'll often enough get "Wow, you're expensive" to which I reply "I'm expensive, but I'm slow". They either understand or we part with a laugh.

hopm

Learned a lot on this forum through the years....learned a lot on this thread.....I be working waaaay too cheap

Larry

Sounds like the going price here for the big logs, but the guys are running some kind of slabbers and working for there money.

For real sticker shock, check out what the guys with idry kilns are getting to dry them.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Walnut Beast

That guy down your way has 3 of them

stavebuyer

I think the WM1000 is closer to 60 than 80 but its his mill so he charge what ever he wants; but its your money and I am glad you kept it. No way I would pay anyone $1bf for any sawing; let alone slabbing 12/4.

ladylake

  
 Me, I'd rather have $450 than nothing.  $900 a hour is crazy for a machine less than $100000.  $500000 excavators might charge $250 a hour and there expenses are way more.   Steve 
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Tom King

I looked up that mill.  It's 72k, and that includes WM setting it up, and teaching you how to use it.

Ruffgear

Work less for more.. I like his thinking

ladylake



 Or no work.  Greed.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

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