I'm going to build a vardo, modern, trailer-able. For those who don't know a vardo is a Gypsy wagon. Used in Europe in the late 1800's early 1900's as a traveling tiny house, pulled by a horse. Usually very ornate, I do not plan anything with that much decorative paint. Circus wagons would also be considered a vardo and the old Pullman train cars have similarities point being the mollicroft.
I actually intend to use this on the road. There are many styles. I'm building what is called a Ledge. Wood stove, propane HW and cooking, shower, 12v and 120v power. Queen or king(?) bed. Road legal. Stained glass, artsy....
I took a 3 day class at Port Townsend School of Woodworking on Vardo design and construction last fall. Part of the class we toured and inspected a few vardos in the local Port Townsend area. Port Townsend is a noteworthy area for wooden boat design and construction. Vardo construction shares more details with boats than houses, if you ignore weight, which you can't(!)
Google 'Trillium Vardo' to see an elaborate 'Bow Top' build by Jim Tolpin. An amazing creation that needs to be in a private collection somewhere, certainly not towed on a road, for fear of chipped paint(!) There were a few we saw that were far more practical and still had the cool factor. Googling Modern Vardo will get you another beautiful build by Greg Ryan on the east coast.
Our instructor Steve Habersetzer has built a few vardo's but linking might get me into copyright issues and he keeps a very low profile, unfortunately, because he has one build that I want to mimic and pictures are few and far between. I get it, after learning and doing everything needed to build one in this age of the internet the onslaught of information seekers might certainly take a lot of fun away, and I will never sell plans. This was actually a course topic.
This will be a multi year project. I have been learning the skills I did not have before; bentwood lamination's, fine mortise and tenon joinery, and an overall increase in accuracy needed. I started to mill lumber in a big way this week for all the non standard dimensions it will require.
I will try and do regular updates with a few pictures.
I'm excited to follow along with your progress.
I'll be looking forward to updates, also.
There is a man in this area that collects antique horse-drawn wagons and displays them at the Fair so I have seen the type of wagon you're talking about.
:P
Very interesting, it will be a fun project for you I'm sure. Also interesting was this thread was the # 3 hit on the duck duck go search you suggested.
Here as one sketch I have of the rear profile. Arches are needed for the roof, mollicroft, door and windows. Traditionally the knee braces are made of wood, mine will be steel because I like the look better.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Design_draft_1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1580050460)
I decided to tackle the door and window arches first and for needed practice. My first form was segmented and left dents and slight straight areas between, so I built a solid form out of some scrap plywood. I'm using clear Western red cedar, 1/4" pieces, 6 layers. These are non load bearing but part of the framing.
I researched springback and was disappointed with what I found, including a "formula" which wasn't good. I read about "creep" of wood glues on bentwood lamination's. One comment I read in hindsight was the best. Take your best shot, plan for some springback and then modify your design to fit. Yeah, well....In all seriousness it all depends. Type of wood, thickness, radius. You just have to built a form and try it.
I wanted a 24" radius so I built my jig at 23 1/2". It did spring back a little and I think I'm close. Spring back was uniform between pieces which was a relief. I used a layer of packing tape to keep my form reusable. This is NOT too many clamps. Getting the lamination's to stay in place is like herding stray cats. I think I will want help with the roof rafters(9' long 14 layers)
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Making 1 artsy metal knee brace was easy, making the other 9 match was a lot of fussy work. The curve must be spot on. This bracket will tie together the base(floor) knee wall, ledge, and the upper wall.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Ledge_bracket_single.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1580052122)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/Ledge_bracket_multi.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1580052218)
It might be a awhile before I get much more to post. I have to wait for lumber to dry...
Polyurethane glue should be better for creep/structural. The thinner the plies the less springback.
Quote from: Don P on January 26, 2020, 09:44:03 PM
Polyurethane glue should be better for creep/structural. The thinner the plies the less springback.
Don, what about resourcinal?
That's better yet. It is the standby structural adhesive, waterproof, no creep. Polyurethanes are being used in CLT construction but "approved" stuff is still not available to us. The over the counter stuff is still waterproof and creep free compared to the PVA's (titebond, etc).
I really like the style of these, our old portable chicken coop was inspired by a gypsy wagon.
Glues and lamination numbers were a tough one for me to decide upon. Your absolutely correct the thinner lamination's have less springback. I went with 1/4" for easier bending, easy math and a balance between how much cutting and gluing. I used Titebond 3 which is far thinner than 2 and has more open work time. I was careful to coat both sides of each ply uniformly to get a fully wet joint. I still had glue harden on my fingers by the time I was tightening the last clamps, I must be slow, or need a bigger brush... I doubled the drying time they said before releasing to 48hrs. They are at least consistent between each other.
I did look into Polyurethane and resorcinol. I have used both in the past. The decisions are not always easy for all kinds of reasons. I had a cross over point of 'good enough' and 'workability'.
I will have some scarf (scarph?) joints and from what I have read the polyurethane is the only way to go, because of end grain absorption and non shrinking. I can make those quick enough to get them aligned and clamped before the glue sets.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the issue of creep. The idea that dried glue can both loose it's bond yet maintain it doesn't make sense to me. I looked at a few 10-12 yr. old bentwood laminations in Port Townsend and they looked fine. I specifically inspected for delamination, cracks that would indicate creep. I couldn't find anything and these were built using titebond 2. This creep issue is a major fear of mine because of the work involved with the entire project. I wonder if creep is from under-cured glue. I doubled my release time in hopes of avoiding anything like creep.
Creep is not shear but plasticity, the ability to move or slip over time without delaminating or shearing. PVA's have not been able to get structural use approval because of this plastic creep. Resorcinol has been the main glue for things like glulam beams for decades. Specific polyurethane glues have gotten approval in more recent years. Henkel (loc-tite's parent co) makes one, Franklin (titebond's parent co) makes another. Melamines also have approval but I've never used any. None of those glues creep.
Another form of creep we see pretty much every day is in a sagging old building, that permanent sag does not recover if you pull the sagged member out of the building. When we design say a joist it is designed within the elastic range of the material, apply load, it deflects, remove load, it recovers its original shape. This applies to wood or steel for that matter. if the beam is steel I should design within the elastic range but if it is overloaded it enters the plastic range where it does not fail but it does not recover its original shape when the load is removed. That range is wide in steel, very narrow in wood. But, in wood a moderately overloaded beam will take on that deflection set, creep, sag.
Zooming way in, hydrogen bonds hold a lot of stuff in this world together, us for example. Bending is hydrogen bonds jumping from molecule to molecule, when too many jump to a new home they hold the group in a new position and don't jump back, it has crept. TMI :D
Do you have a Cobb (Gypsy) to pull it with?
Thanks Don for the explanation, that makes sense to me now. I might rethink this, I have time while lumber is drying. A segmented vertically laminated curved arch would lend itself to shorter glue open time better than horizontal lamination's. Even with help I don't think I could get a 14 layer lamination together in 30 min. or maybe a huge group of people could get that done, or do a few layers at a time. Lots to think over. Thanks again.
No horses, I can feed the truck only when I need it. I'm using a 16' tandem axle trailer, electric brakes, commercially built, road legal.
I've done arches sort of like that for trim over circle top doors. I laid the pieces side by side and applied glue to them all at the same time using a scrap of formica as a spreader to quickly get them all wetted out quickly. Then stacked them and began with the center clamp and 2 people working our way out in both directions clamping it up.
Darn, checking my gallery I don't have a pic of the trim on the other side of this door. It was ~1/4"x1" oak strips glued into an arch 3-1/2" wide. This side is the factory brickmold, looks like just sawn out of a panel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/spkeasy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192055733)
Nice door! I was wondering if maybe my radius is too small but yours is smaller. Do you recall what glue you used? You applied glue to just 1 side? Laminate thickness? Sorry lots of questions, bentwood lamination's is something I have no experience with. I have all 3 of the small arches done and I have been watching them. :( Slowly they are expanding, they are days apart in age but it shows 1-2-3. Cedar maybe a poor choice for wood type for this application. I can't recall the wood used in the ones I toured, dumb, should have paid attention to that as well.
Would it help to steam bend first and after set/cooled/dried, go back and glue?
I went through a bent-lamination phase a few years ago. Furniture type things. I used pretty much the method DonP describes for applying the glue. Resorcinal or DAP Urea Resin Glue. I wouldn't trust a PVA glue in that application, plus the working time is just not long enough. You might be able to get away with the creep since those members are captive after they're installed in the wagon, but I'd certainly switch glue if I were you.
The application method DonP describes works good with a small roller, brush, or formica chip. Be fast, be messy. I used packing tape on the forms and wrapped the assembly in saran wrap as well. Best to cut strips 1/2 inch or so wider than finished width and then trim. Trim on edge on a bandsaw, then run through the jointer. Rig up a little cradle and rip to finished width on the table saw.
Neat project you got there. Nice job on the metal work. Good luck and keep those pictures coming.
I considered steam bending, I would like to keep my steps to a minimum if possible.
The roof arches are more gentle and thicker (deeper) which should help.
I will pick up some of the DAP(weldwood) glue and cut another set.
Thanks!
Okay, Back to the shop finally. I did get some Weldwood Urea-formaldehyde glue for the scarfing I did. Man that is some glue! Literally hard as a rock.
I started a blog for this project at the request of my kids. mccoyvardo.blogspot.com It is anything but consistent with peoples ability to find it, some can others cannot.
Changes to the plan- I reduced the length to 12' from 16'. Split the bed area in a way that is hard to describe. Still continuing with everything else.
The base- Let in floor joists into the rim joist w/Kreg screws and TB 3. Corner blocking for rigidity and fastening to the trailer. Jig made from oak pallet boards, used a small PC laminate trimmer with a square base to make the mortise.
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Corner bracket is bolted in + glue.
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Rounded the shoulders on the floor joist.
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Scarf cutting jig for the table saw. Fast, accurate but dangerous. With that much blade exposed the bottom of the blade exits the cut long before the top - and we all watch the top. :(
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Mock up of the floor joist/rim joist junction. The dowel is black walnut - more about it later.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1787.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1602791935)
I used a machinist 90 block to hold the corner blocks for counter boring with a forstner bit on the 45. This IS NOT overkill.
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Very nice work. I was wondering how this wagon was progressing. Really interesting project. Thanks for the update.
Thanks btulloh.
I plan on covering the floor with T&G douglas fir and treating all the under side floor framing with pure tung oil cut 50% with mineral spirits. I have days of applying finish to various parts coming up.
From the base up the structures are; floor. knee wall. ledge, main wall, roof, mollycroft.
Knee wall framing- Basically a truss, Warren style as near as I can figure out. The top and bottom plate are douglas fir(DF). Some of the studs are DF and others are Western Red Cedar(WRC). All the diagonals are WRC. I used WRC to save on weight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1979.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1602807402)
The studs are all through mortise and tenon, the diagonals are just glued in place.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1949.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1602807623)
Totally awesome.
Lots of inside corners. Applying finish with HVLP or rag&brush? Sounds like work either way. How many coats to get it like you want it? Or just going with the thin stuff to get good penetration and seal it up a bit?
I'd be glad to come help you with finish but I'm busy that day. :D
Very nice
Missed this the first time round in January. Great project and thanks for doing the thread on it. Lot of different skills being used for sure. Great job.
Thanks for the kind words guys, and your welcome samandothers. There is a lack of information out there imho.
btulloh - I'm going to cut the tung oil 50% with mineral spirits and apply with a brush, several coats, but only to the floor framing. I'm not looking forward to that step.
The black walnut dowel-
I'm going to 'stack' the vertical framing members. This caused a bit of an issue with fastening the ledge bracket to the floor. I added a cross dowel for the lag screw to go through, the wood working equivalent of a barrel nut. Otherwise it's just end grain holding it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1852~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1602848696)
I watched an interesting UTube on making your own dowel. A block with 2 holes- one is the finished size and the other the size of the square stock diagonal dimension. Using a drill, a bunch of extensions and a 8 point socket I spun the square stock through the block. It's a little fussy to get the saw at the correct height.
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I like that dowel jig. Hadn't seen that particular approach before. Looks like it does a good job too.
I haven't seen that before either and also like it.
Very nice work Sir
Cargo Doors-
I need 2 cargo doors, one on each side, to access the forward area under the beds. The structure will provide rain protection but there is always road spray and the occasional wash down. I decided to make a door assembly that could be removed for repair. I'm going to use 3/16" x 3/8" adhesive backed foam gasket. When the door is closed it should be compressed about 1/2. I also cut a slope to allow the door frame to drain.
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The inset panel in the door is 1/4" DF - T&G. It is a very tight fit but not glued in place.
What keeps the frame from rotting out where the groove is on the bottom?
Frankly, I'm not sure. We really only go places when the weather is pleasant which should help, after that it will be under cover.
I plan on finishing the door/frame with a UV rated finish, likely a marine spar varnish. I plan to caulk the door's door frame to the vardo siding and the door inset panel to the rails and styles. It's about all I can do. The varnish would likely seal the joint but I suspect it may crack over time.
Wow it's been a year since I've posted any updates. I have been very busy with our wholesale nursery as everyone decided to stay home and fix up their yard.
I will try and get as many pictures posted this morning as I can.
I built a long base router table and added a power feeder for making T&G flooring and V groove T&G siding. The flooring is Douglas Fir, which in hindsight I should have spent the money for some hardwood. It's a little soft but will hold up fine.
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Quick dip in the glue bathtub. Shop built tweezers made from an old power hacksaw blade.
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Floor framing was given multiple coats of pure tung oil mixed with mineral spirits 50/50. I put it on until it wouldn't take anymore over several days. I took a block of wood that the frame was sitting on and cut it to see the penetration. I was shocked and disbelieving so I did it again - same results.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_2092.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1634640812)
Having an oily frame I decided to use cedar strips to hold the Styrofoam insulation in place with an air gap(air gaps add .88r).
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Knee wall, ledge brackets, ledge board.
Together these 3 made an inverted L shape and reinforced each other. The knee wall framing I built as a truss, I believe it is called a Howe Truss. Mortise and tenon studs to plates with glued in webbing.
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Knee wall truss also insulated. Rough floor plan. Bathroom on right(composting toilet). Galley kitchen along wall. Table at end. 2 beds not shown- 1 crosswise (elevated), the other on right becoming a couch
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Ledge bracket. I used bondo to fill in the rough spots from my welding and painted with rustoleum paint. Siding is Western red cedar coated with Flood brand stain. The idea of sanding to refinish made the choice to use the flood product - no sanding required.
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I choose to make the ledge board of glued up pieces of 3/4" x 2" T&G douglas fir. The pieces are end joined with a taper scarf joint. The bottom side was treated with the flood product before installation.
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The ledge bracket and it's associated hardware.
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On the siding butt joints I treated the ends with roofing tar. Vertical batten strips cover the joint.
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The upper wall tilts outwards at 3 degrees. I cut the taper on the bottom plate so the wall could be built flat simplifying construction. The ledge board needed a 3 degree taper so the siding could lay flat over it. I cut this in with a hand plane. Batten strips on knee wall.
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Lag screw goes up through the ledge bracket. Note cross dowel for gross grain purchase of lag screw threads. Wall studs are mortise and tenon joined.
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Windows are all mortise and tenon also. Clear water and grey water tanks in back round. I used douglas fir studs where I needed strength and stiffness, western red cedar where I could to save weight.
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The roof structure-
The roof includes a mollycroft - the raised section in the middle. I must admit to overthinking this- repeatedly(!). I changed my plan from building curved glue-lams to building full length trusses. I saw a picture on the internet of a sway back vardo - it needed rebuilding.
I cut all the rafters from single pieces of wood. The transition curve between the molly croft roof to the main vardo roof really hung me up. There are no pictures of the frame that I could find with this design. It's all mortise and tenon joinery with Urea Formaldehyde glue. The upper junction at the ends of the mollycroft has 4 members coming together in one place, mortise and tenon joinery.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0372.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1634645720)
This sweeping curve has a 3 degree bevel cut onto the top. The same 96" radius flows down from the mollycroft roof to the main vardo roof.
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I had considered building the mollycroft as a unit and hoisting it into place. Instead I test fit and then assembled it is place.
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I added a truss to the front of the upper wall to help with the wind pressure of towing.
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Finding a simple way to make the mollycroft ends was anything but simple.
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I sanded and 1/8" round over routed all the pieces. I noticed while I was wiping up glue with a wet sponge that water really made the grain 'pop'. I dug out stains and finishes and ended up using Tung oil 50/50 with mineral spirits. The matt finish is pleasant and minor imperfections are given an antique sort of look. I like the idea that the tung oil finish can be rejuvenated at any time with out stripping and sanding.
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The front wall got some trussing added to it as well. I used 2"x2"x1/8" angle iron and 5/16" bolts to build my own brackets to hold the ends of the rafters to the side walls.
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That pretty much catches up with where I'm at today. Rear wall framing needs finishing and then it's siding...:)
Quite the undertaking and you're doing an amazing job 8)
Wow, what a project and devotion to such a BIG woodworking project! I thank you for taking time to post your pictures to capture the progress and detail.
I've been working on siding. 5/8" western red cedar V groove T&G I made. The side walls and the front are done, batten strips and corner molding yet to build. The front will get a bay window.
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I used tar to treat the butt ends, the battens will cover the joints.
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The rear wall is a work in progress. Lots going on back here and curved headers. I stuck the windows in their frames to check for placement - the framing hasn't been done yet. I found it funny that the windows were the first thing I built. They have been sitting around for a couple of years and are a little dirty.
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Interesting thread. Looks amazing to me. You're making art with a function. One of them long haul projects where you do a little each day, but not hurry at it, but work away steady and never give up. Thanks for bringing us along on your journey. :)
Professor Marvel, Proclaimed by the crowned heads of Europe. :D
Thanks for the kind words guys, I really appreciate it! You are welcome.
I'm trying to get information out there that I wished were available for me. This by no means the right way or only way to do this. It is a big project and it might be more than 2 years to complete. I asked my wife to take a look and asked for her input. Her comment was to finish the inside to a point where we can take it out and use it a little and then see. We built our own house and after we were done we immediately picked out 3 things we would do differently.
I have bought most everything with the exceptions of the sinks and a hot water radiator. I did buy a cubic mini wood stove but I plan on building a hot water radiator system with fans and a thermostat. They make 12 vdc circulation pumps and this way I can use the water heater as a furnace - saving the cost of a furnace. 4 computer fans should move enough air but I will just have to try it. This covid economy makes me leery of shortages so I am stocking up.
Quote from: DMcCoy on October 28, 2021, 07:10:46 AM
They make 12 vdc circulation pumps and this way I can use the water heater as a furnace - saving the cost of a furnace. 4 computer fans should move enough air but I will just have to try it.
This is a great idea for space saving too!
I'm done with putting up the siding. I did have some preconceived ideas about how I would frame the window and door arches, going so far as to make glue-lams and built up curved headers.
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In practice I found cutting the pieces I needed from solid blocks of wood easier.
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I had just enough siding to finish it with the material I had ready, I will need to make more V groove for covering the roof.
This is a great post! I just found it and read through.
Great project.
Beautiful work Sir
Now that is a beautiful piece of art!!!
Thanks!
Started on the roof sheathing. I had a cluster of small diameter western red cedar trees that I cut into lumber. I forgot how different that makes the lumber. It's a shame to have to cover the outside of the roof.
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Small diameter trees make some more interesting lumber.
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Next up is to cover the slopes. I'm going crosswise down the slope until I meet up with the lower roof. The bend (96" radius) isn't horrible but enough that I think I will have to steam bend it. Every place I looked says you cannot steam bend conifer lumber, so I will just have to find out. As a fall back I know I can bend thinner pieces and glue them together. I'm going with clear knot free lumber for the down slope.
I'm quite unsure of how to do the edge joints. Are these pieces going to look like barrel staves, wider in the middle? Then reverse? The edge bevel -I'm assuming- must be the same on each piece so the joint lays flat. Mentally I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.
Interesting project!
As a contrast for sure in overall construction to create the same sort of gypsy wagon-
I've seen many sheepherder wagons out west in the Rockies with South American or Latino guys tending large flocks for long stays in the boonies. Their wagon "homes" had the same rounded roofs done with much less concern for aesthetics like stained glass, etc.. Seems like I recall from years back that they used painted canvas roofs or tarpaper selvage roofing. One trip we were with my parents and my Mom was intrigued with the whole thing such that she got a look/see inside one where we were hiking N of Steamboat Springs, CO on WY border. That guy was from Peru as it were.
How is this fancy sort of wagon used on the road-inside a PU bed?
I visited the High Desert Museum near Bend OR many years ago. They had on display a shepherds wagon. I remember at the time thinking this was an early RV - for work but the essentials were all there, including a small wood cookstove.
The history of Vardo's or Gypsy wagon's has a parallel to building public roads. They were used in the early 1900's for vacations by the wealthy until gasoline powered trucks and cars led to the RV with it's modern construction methods.
I'm planning on covering this with canvas -> PMF (poor mans fiberglass) glued down with Titebond 3 and painted with white exterior paint. I plan to carry it on a 16' flat bed trailer that I already own.
It has gotten fancy(er) as the original goal as my wife will still state is "something better than a tent".
I believe any hand made RV will attract people's attention, much like your mother. I know I rubber neck anything home made.
About a month ago I asked myself why exactly I was building this, to double check on my motivation. I love the look of wood and have built all kinds of things since I was a small boy. I want something that I personally would like to look at and use. I'm tall 6'6" 250 lbs, and there is very few RV's that I can stand up in let alone short narrow beds between bulk heads where my nighttime leg cramp issues would likely flare up. RV's have a lot of things going for them but I simply don't fit. My wife and I have said for years we need to build our own trailer so here we are.
Part of the class I took included a warning about the attention these draw and the need to be prepared for all kinds of people wanting to see inside, and a billion questions. Between printed hand outs and a blog or two plus Covid-19 I'm hoping to mostly keep my privacy while satisfying people's curiosity. We also tend to remote camp in very low population areas which should help. Too much attention is a real concern I have and we will see how this works out. Family has already expressed an interest to spend the night here on our property in it so if that becomes it's destiny then I'm okay with that but a small cabin would have been tons easier to build. Several of the students at the class I took wanted to build vardo's to rent out as a supplemental income. There is now a place on the Oregon coast where there is a Vardo village all available to rent. These can get you around building codes and land use laws to different degrees.
Searching for detailed information on building one of these doesn't get you very far. I bought one expensive and out of print book about Vardo's and even it was scant on details. I hope to help the next guy and to inspire him/her to what is possible with solid pieces of wood.
Covering the mollycroft slopes. Close to done. Covering it with 3 layers of laminated cedar strips. Upper slope needed convex shapes to "lay flat", lower slope needed concave. Lay flat is the only term I can come up with to describe what needs to happen.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0500.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1638016556)
Photo above - convex slope ->convex strip. Photo below - concave slope ->concave strip.
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Top view. Edges will get trimmed later.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0535.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1638016864)
Inside view. Rough yet and will need some sanding.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0525.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1638016969)
If anyone chooses to follow my slope design I have a recommendation. Add 2 more rafters to make a total of 5. The 3 points of contact I used worked fine on the convex portion. At the transition to concave the roof started to develop a ridge. I changed the clamp position and added some wooden cantilever pry bars with weight to get the sections between the rafters to flow. It worked but having more rafters would make it fool proof.
This is very time consuming - about an inch per day. I have used my 'spare' time to start of plumbing and cabinetry.
Bookmarked, and following. Really a neat build. I've got several working models at least in my head, and am planning on building at least 1 of these in some sort; will be towing it around my property for different niche views.
Anyone interested, there are several variations of this idea on Youtube; saw some neat ones on the road down in NZ.
Thanks for Sharing.
The last strips to go one the mollycroft slopes. I closed the gap where I could get my clamps through so I opted for just top pressure. I was able to clamp a board to the truss tails and then use small scraps to apply the clamping pressure to the curved strips.
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I have been working on plumbing while the glue dried on these strips. The plumbing needed to go inside and behind the cabinetry so it became a bigger project.
Upper bunk slides out to fit a 36" mattress. Below it is 3 storage compartments with top lid access. To the left and forward will be a 30" wide seat with under seat storage and then the kitchen counter. On the left will be a couch that will slide out to make a bed, again to 36".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0547.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1639483904)
Tank layout didn't work as anticipated so it has changed. I'm starting to frame the bathroom walls.
This is the left side seat @30" wide. When the bunk is extended there is still about 10" of seat showing to use as a step. Upper bunk rail will get a cap. Using Western red cedar as much as possible to keep the weight as low as I possibly can.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0564.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1639571228)
The lower right side bunk, slides out to fit a 36" mattress. My wife gets this one. Her feet will be under the upper bunk. Makes into a @6' long couch during the day!
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Toilets and showers are the more difficult aspects. I owned an RV once, dumping the 'black water' tank was a nasty job. This will have a home built composting toilet using a urine diverter which is the issue in controlling smells, that and a small 12v computer fan. I searched the net and ended up with a diverter from the UK, more on that later. There are many toilet units for purchase but they can run $500+.
A shower will be plumb-able but I'm leaving it left out until later. Waiting to see how we use this. I have debated between inside or outside shower and outside would be easier space wise and adding a drain pan to the bath floor would mean draining into a portable tank or directly onto the ground. Also the bathroom would be tight for taking a shower - so perhaps on the back porch.
Pretty interesting and great job 👍
Adding windows in the mollycroft. I'm using old aluminum storm windows for my clear glass, free and readily available. 2" square bevels are about $14 for 30, add copper foil, solder and time. These are relatively cheap for the stained glass look. Colored glass costs quite a bit extra. I added a black patina using a liquid that turns the solder black with an old tooth brush. I've gotten better with practice, go figure. My old stuff looks kinda rough. Learned by watching youtubes and utilizing the common techniques. Would make great looking inserts into upper cabinet doors for those cabinet builders out there.
The middle windows are open-able for ventilation, a common complaint with tiny homes is a lack of ventilation.
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This build boggles my mind. thumbs-up
The hours that you are putting into this is mind blogging too!!! ;D
Thanks for the compliments!
Here is a better shot from inside. I'm still trying to figure out the curved windows at the ends. Typically they are single piece colored glass, and I'm thinking a shade of amber or light purple or blue. There is a Bullseye glass store in Portland and it's like a 500 crayon coloring kit. Worse, color choosing is not my strong suit. Yeah TC this is a big time consumer!! I find I enjoy long term projects perhaps like people who build train set displays.
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What you are doing is jaw dropping! You have put so much time and thought into this and it shows. Thank you for sharing your progress.
I'm sheathing the lower roof. I'm hoping to get the roof sheathing done before our nursery and spring shipping consume my life through July.
I started doing a half lap joint on the board ends so the screws will catch both boards. I split the joint on the rafter, so the joint is hidden from inside. I did use glue on the half joints but not in the tongue and groove.
I will need to install barge rafters and facia's to finish. The Vardo specific term is weather boards which I assume mean 'rain'. I'll take it one more step to assume there is also a drip edge to keep rain from wicking down the walls but there are no details I could find that specifically state this.
Half lap joint on board ends, split over the rafter-
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I really hate to cover this up- It will get puttied with automotive filler(Bondo - no joke) and sanded before covering with canvas PMF (poor mans fiberglass).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0646.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1642270677)
Inside...
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All I can think of is "train car".
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For all of us non-women's clothing makers the fabric going down the slopes on each end will be bias cut. Bias cut (threads are 45 degree angle to the slope) will help it "fit right" or fit tight on the compound curve. I learned this in a formal manner reading an engineering book of all places.
That's definitely a work of art.
Just check'n in. Awesome! thumbs-up
A bit of an update...
I've started finishing the inside. The upper wall will have a paint-able surface. The black blotches you see on the siding is automotive body filler, over fiberglass window screen, over knots. I didn't use lumber with dry or dead knots but I'm concerned that even the live knots with vibrations make shake loose so hopefully this is preventative. I also decided to insulate. A few black wrought iron coat hooks will get added.
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Left side seat, storage under accessible by lifting the not yet done cushion and removing a lid.
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A couple of doors needed on the under couch/bed storage. The larger opening will hold a cooler of shoes or both. The whole forward section has countersunk lift off lids.
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Lots more work to do yet...
I actually did, just shake my head as I slowly mouthed the word "wow". Wow.
Absolutely gorgeous.
Your craftsmanship is beyond reproach.
I suppose however that in view of the forest pest renaming you may have to call it a Vardo sponge wagon.
Thanks Jeff! It's been an interesting project so far, after the roof it feels like I'm on the down slope for some reason. Lots of cutting and fitting. It's different, one friend will show up to see it and then the next time I get a carload, they are strangely quiet, a few questions but mostly looking but not talking.
My 2 year project allowance will expire this fall, it might take another full winter. Already have a list for staying overnight in it. I rather flippantly promised my wife if it's too much of a bother to go camping with it I would buy her a travel trailer. She gave me one of those wife looks the other day and told me she is holding me to that.. :-\
Okay Pete! Thanks for the kind words!
I was wondering how long that would take...
I'm sadly PC under-developed according to my kids. :D
I will not be burning any books! This has to stop somewhere.
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No pcness (have I coined a new word?)here either.
Wish I lived closer to you so we could visit and see your project first hand, but Linda and I are not into very long travel anymore.
I had always thought that these wagons originated in eastern Europe.
Well, you would be welcome to come and look.
I also thought these were more eastern Europe.
The book was the only thing I could find about vardo's that wasn't online. It was slightly helpful but mostly historical in the designs of the different types. I don't know what they had for hand tools back then. The intricate details on the painting would be incredibly expensive today.
The book gave an interesting historical perspective from shepards wagons to traveling tradespeople(gypsy's) to horse drawn vacation vardo's (caravan's) to modern travel trailers (more of a US term) and motorhomes. An increasing quantity of public roads developed at the same time.
That's an awesome wagon. :)
Don't let the likes of Canada's chief archivist Leslie Weir get her hands on that book. Her ilk have been busy purging historical content off Government websites that meets her disapproval. :D And government of Ontario is pushing a bill, that will put you on trial if you express certain views in schools and universities. All part of critical race theory.
The donk trying to get this put in the restricted section of the FF ??
Nope. :)
I'm enjoying the work and time you are putting into it!!!!
Thanks! I'm glad everyone is enjoying this.
So a bit of an update, I'm not done yet with the bathroom but it is starting to come together. I'm using 1/4" plywood for the upper portion. The gray paint is just an old can of primer I found- the final color is yet unknown. I got part way and changed the toilet seat position to make it more comfortable to use. The door will be a heavy curtain, the rod will be hidden by the wood arch. In the upper right hand corner are 2 small fans to ventilate the composting toilet, 12 vdc .1 amp. Air flow will be inside the wall pulling air directly from around the toilet seat.
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The 'sink' is a salad bowl. The drain was tapered where it met the bowl so I had to form the bowl to fit, this created wrinkles so I gave it a peened look to cover it up. Top is big leaf maple with both birds eye and quilted grain. With the panels on the cabinet doors I used some old weathered fir boards and gave them a partial sanding. 1/4 turn latches from McMaster-Carr.
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I spent a fair amount of time researching composting toilets. We have one here on our property for picnics which gave me some practical insights. A commercial drop in unit can run over $1K. A urine diverter is essential and I was able to get one out of the UK for about $15 + freight. The 'tank' is a 1/2 gallon milk jug. The entire plywood lid comes off with a double slide motion and is painted with gloss paint under and around where the toilet seat goes with gloss white paint(not shown in picture). A 5 gallon bucket is the other part and will have a plastic bag or two as a liner. The framework to hold the bag in place is under construction so to speak. Coir(coconut fiber) seems to be the preferred medium but any dry high carbon matter will work like sawdust or leaf litter. On the right of center you can see a square hole cut for air to flow up to the fans inside the wall. There will be a gasketed box to hold the coir that fits there to complete the 'duct work'.
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A down the hole look with the urine diverter in place.
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The 'tank' is a 1/2 gallon milk jug. I had planned on using a gallon but after I was firmly committed with framing it would no longer fit. The tank is easily removable and is held firmly in place. I have no idea how this will travel.
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The door has a slot where you can inspect the level. I'm going to replace it with a solid panel. You can tell from the noise how full it is while using.
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The square hole on the wall is for the main switch panel. It includes USB charging ports. I plan on adding cell phone holders on the wall below it.
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The bathroom had so many curvy and angled wood meet ups I'm actually looking forwards to the kitchen cabinets. All of the plumbing and most of the wiring gets installed in the cabinetry so working on one means working on everything.
This continues to be totally amazing. thumbs-up
Always excited to see the updates! :)
Update... my shop time has been limited, this summer did not go according to my plans.
I'm not quite finished but there is enough to make a post.
The drawer boxes simple end butt construction with the bottom held in a dado.
The drawer fronts and doors are half lap corner joints, all are set flush to the face frame. I intentionally left them with wider gaps, adds an element of rustic to the whole affair. I used western red cedar for the drawer and door fronts, the panel is weathered fir lumber lightly sanded and glued into a rabbet on the backside. I used douglas fir for the face frame, it is glued and doweled.
Everything is latched for traveling with a quarter turn cabinet latch, I got them at McMaster-Carr.
Under the sink on the far right is a radiator with a grill. I still need to cover the fans with something. The radiator is for air heat and uses the propane water heater as the heat source. A 12 v hot water circulation pump moves the water. I used 3 computer fans for air movement. They are really quiet and each is capable of 5 cu. ft. /min.
The cabinet design is quite different compared to my house cabinets where there is 1 shallow drawer and below that is doors. Part of this is because of the space created by the ledge portion of the vardo.
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Half lap corner joints. Working with a soft wood like cedar isn't easy. I learned I could lift out small dents with water.
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Rabbet for inside panel. Sharp, like new cutters are required with western red cedar. It's softer than pine.
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Backside of door. I used TB-3 glue in the rabbet and between pieces, After it set, on the backside, I added glue into cracks and especially any knots. After everything was dry I sanded the back, which eventually got painted white for easy cleaning.
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Door front.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0835.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1666438065)
Radiator...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0841.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1666438240)
The radiator grill. I stole an idea from T&G flooring to secure the grill bars.
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Not shown but I quarter rounded the edges where the air would flow.
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Test fit...
Thanks for the update on your progress. Looking Good !!! 8)
Here is where I'm at as of this morning. I have my wife agreeable to a wood countertop as she "doesn't plan on cooking" and is "on vacation". Great gal and hard to argue with... ;D
Lot's more to do. The heat shield for the wood stove is a concern. I have stainless steel shhets but they look harsh. Tile while heavy is an option. I would really like to use copper but have a hard time getting off my wallet.
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Really nice 👍
You mentioned a drop of water for dents. We used to travel with an iron and it wasn't for our work clothes. A damp rag and an iron will swell out dings if the fiber is not cut.
Nice looking job. Slow and easy is often the better path to the finished product. :)
Stunning as always! What about brushed aluminum flashing for your heat shield? That's a bit softer looking.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 22, 2022, 11:53:20 AM
Stunning as always! What about brushed aluminum flashing for your heat shield? That's a bit softer looking.
Thanks,
...and lighter too! I'll take a look. I need a metal base plate for the wood stove (Cubic Mini Cub) for spilled ashes etc. Brushed aluminum would look good and I could have the wall edges made with a small lip. I'm considering rusty metal roofing for the side shields, should have some laying around here somewhere. :D The cubic has double wall SS flue pipe and with a factory heat shield has a couple inch clearance is all.
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Nice looking stove.
Just about a foot square? ;D
Quote from: thecfarm on October 26, 2022, 07:54:00 AM
Nice looking stove.
Just about a foot square? ;D
Yes, but metric. :D It came out of Canada. I ended up in the sailboat world ($$$$) looking for a wood stove. There are some absolutely beautiful small wood stoves made for sail boats(~$2-3k). Pipsqueak, Sardine, and Dickenson Marine were other options. Once I bought the necessary stove pipe(stainless steel double wall), flashing, and cap plus shipping I'm looking at just over $1k. :o
Because of the wood stove I have a list of people who want to spend the night in the vardo once it is finished. Takes wood about 5 1/2" or 14 centimeters long. I have been looking for a tiny metric axe to complete the setup
I had one of those stoves years ago. Got it at an auction because it was cute and no one else bid.
Quote from: Jeff on January 12, 2006, 11:46:25 PM
I'll get much better photos if I auction it. Its cuter then all get out and not very big, but HEAVY for its size.
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Nice cabinet work, and all the wood work!
I have finished the kitchen countertop and added the sink, cook top, and wood stove. I used birdseye maple cut from some big leaf maple trees I had. Big leaf maple is soft compared to eastern maples. I was concerned that the birdseye would look overly busy so I mixed it with ribbon grain and a few knots and staining. I'm not sure I like it but perhaps it will grow on me.
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The wood stove has been mounted on a sheet of stainless steel. The sheet was pretty scratched so I used a random orbit sander to give it a finish which covered or obscured the scratches.
It has a 1" air space under the SS sheet. Metal spacers and bolts were used to fasten it down. I will need a wall heat shield yet. The wood stove is designed for wall mounting in a sailboat, the clearance is much tighter when using a heat shield than the 6 or so inches of space I am allowing.
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And the cook top...
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The walls are still just primer painted, the final color is an ongoing discussion. A lighter paint might help lessen the light color of the countertop.
It will probably help when the heat shield and upper cabinet and fan are installed also. Likely some spice or dish racks will get installed.
A few pictures. Range hood installed.
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Getting started with the bay window up front. It going to break wind while towing. I plan on making a plywood bra to protect the windows. Main window must open for emergency exit. Under the main window is the battery compartment including the solar charge controller and main battery switch. Building window casings this morning.
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Homemade aluminum brackets from the scrap pile. Front cover held on with brass toilet tank bolts...call me a pack rat, the shoe fits.
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I've been working on wiring. Interior lights, 12 vdc LED strip lighting. Pretty cheap but cutting and adding extension wiring is a pita/
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Adding light from the wall sconces. 12 vdc fixtures off ebay, each has it's own switch.
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Looking fantastic!
This is a wonderful build, labor of love. I was catching up since about October time frame. You do great work and detail. I really enjoy your creativity and use of 'scrap pile' stuff. Now that stove, seems it may work to warm coffee and a great conversation piece but stoking a fire with 5 1/2" wood may take a lot of trips to the wood 'pile'. At least the load of fire wood will be light. :o Might need a pellet feeder attachment. ;D EPA approved? I am only funning, it is a great touch.
Thank you for sharing your work and the detail!
update...
The bay window case is close to done. The actual windows will have to wait. I used copper roofing which is a whole new learning experience.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1226.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505154)
The posts are glue ups, held in the case with dowels, glue and screws.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1146.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505310)
Ready for putty(bondo) sanding and roofing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1240.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505453)
The copper roof-
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1243.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505665)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1260.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505767)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1256.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677505859)
The copper roof materials cost just over $200 with $36 of that being for a folding tool. For whatever reason looking back I'm a little surprised I tried this, I have no experience or even practice.
The little copper drip edge was made from a coil I saved from my fathers shop. It has easily been collecting dust for over 64 years. So the lesson here is to never throw anything away.... ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1248.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677506383)
Looks great!
If I didn't do something because I had no experience or practice, I probably would have never done much of anything.
Looks pretty awesome!
Quote from: Tom King on February 27, 2023, 10:03:40 AM
Looks great!
If I didn't do something because I had no experience or practice, I probably would have never done much of anything.
I've been thinking about your comment all afternoon. The perspective, thanks!
Like raising 3 kids...zero experience and no practice :D
Finally back into the shop. Not wood working unless you are adding stained or leaded glass into cabinetry. I tool a picture of the tools I used, and most are wood working tools! Specific glass tools are; cutter oil, a cutter, a breaker, and a grouser.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0253.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693220403)
I made a temperature controller for my soldering iron, you can see it in the middle. A light dimmer switch and an outlet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0254.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693220715)
I used a piece of flat bar with a pin that fits through the grate on my grinder to grind the pieces parallel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1382.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693220955)
Glass work is more like working with tile than anything else. It's not the easiest material, and it can break weirdly. A window gets far more scrutiny than a floor.
The patterns are geometric and I keep the pattern itself under the glass I'm working. I use old window glass for my clear glass saving $$. I used plastic spacers which unfortunately were a little too thick so I soldered a copper wire around the window to give it more length and width. It all gets covered by the window frame so no worries. I work my way across cutting, grinding, sanding and fitting as I go. Eventually I numbered every piece starting in the upper right hand corner. Occasionally a piece will fit better if you flip it over so the numbering helps keep everything tight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0287.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693221756)
The copper foil I add by hand. It's very important to get it centered. I clamp a wood chisel to the table for cutting the foil. The foil is adhesive backed and must be pressed down. I just use a pencil, nothing fancy. At the corners the foil is folded carefully and mashed down.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0246.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693222248)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0247.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693222361)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0248.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693222599)
One of the hardest things to do at least for me is to visualize the final window. As this series of pictures show it changes pretty dramatically.
Here the window is finished with cutting fitting, it's ready for copper foil.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0296.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693222869)
Finished with foiling.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0302.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693223069)
Soldering done. Window gets washed to remove flux and crud.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0304.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693223190)
I use nitric acid to give the solder a black patina. Gloves required. I apply with a old toothbrush, brushing fairly often, old reacted chemical needs replacing. Eventually the patina equalizes and then I wash the window. This step is the most dramatic and the hardest to visualize when I'm just starting the project.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0305.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693223560)
I'm just holding the loose window in the frame.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0306.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1693223894)
I've had a few questions about the legal side of having windows like this out on the road. I'm planning for shutters on the sides and a shield for the front. Plexiglas is my last option.
True craftsmanship, beautiful work!
Thank you.
Putting the glass in the frame. After a few goofs this is how I proceeded.
There is a rabbet on the inside face of the window frame, 1/4" wide and 1/2" deep.
I varnished the rabbet. I ended up getting some 1/4" wide by 1/8" thick closed cell adhesive weather stripping from McMaster-Carr, and wow, it's nice stuff.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1411.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694048008)
Then the window. I used super tiny oak wood blocks to support the window in the frame. Along the edges I used a few strips of butyl rubber strips pushed into the gap to hold the window centered in the frame, that is sticky stuff!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1415.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694048277)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1416.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694048402)
Lastly I added a 1/4" x 1/4" wood strip to hold the glass in place. I used 3/4" x 18 wire nails to secure it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1417.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694048600)
Certified as being "cute little nails" by my wife...
I wished I had a window making grandpa to help me.
Terrified of swinging a hammer next to my prize windows I built a nail holding block of wood that a small drift pin punch fit into. With the notch in the block of wood I could hold that little strip tight and the punch keeps my hammer far enough away. Nails on center!
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1408.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694049235)
By adjusting the thickness of the block to match the length of the punch's pin before the shoulder stops it, the nails are set flush.
This is Fascinating and Amazing. I am totally "blown away" as I read about this journey that you are making and sharing with us. :P
Thank you and I'm glad you're enjoying the process Magicman.
I put clear stain on the window flames and installed them. I'm waiting on some fresh hydrogen peroxide to blacken my latches using the rust method.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0374.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694780233)
Working on the side window design. I had to glue 4 sheets of paper together to get it big enough for a full size pattern. I placed the bevel glass pieces directly on the pattern and spent quite some time staring, moving them, staring some more, moving, until it looks good. Like going to the eye Dr. --which is better 'A' or 'B'. Drafting table Craigslist find $50 with a nice chair.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0373.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694780777)
Working on side window casing, a book shelf, some exterior trim around the copper roofing. I will take it to an upholstery shop to get curtains and cushions made.
Rust blackening was a bust. I went with a propane torch and oil quenching, which gave a mostly black looking finish to my handles. Attached the fascia boards which has been giving me tremendous pause and turned out to be much simpler than I feared.
Drilled a 3/16" pilot hole, then using a counterbore drilled holes in the rafter tails and the back side of the fascia for the oak plug.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0381.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696174605)
Cross grain oak plug. 1/4" bore on left holds 5/16" lag bolt threads.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0411.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696174732)
3/4" counterbore. Drills flat bottom hole. Uses 3/16" pilot bit not shown. I used the smooth shank portion of the pilot so the bit didn't wander.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_1157.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696174872)
Oak plug glued in place using TB-3.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0383.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696175001)
There is a corresponding shallow hole in the back side of the fascia to accept the protruding portion of the oak plug. I had to re-drill the fascia to 5/16" for the lag bolt. I used a homemade drill bit made from a 5/16" bolt with a 3/16" pilot to keep it centered. I used galvanized hardware which isn't supposed to hold paint without first etching which I did by soaking all the hardware in pickling vinegar (6%) for about 1/2 hr. Black rustoleum paint no primer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0416.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696181223)
Last roof board will help tie the fascia on. It will hang the over 1/4" past the fascia and the roof covering will fasten down over it. Total width once complete with roofing is 101 1/2" = 1/2" under legal limit>
Interior side window trim is simple craftsman style.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0375.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696181807)
Exterior side window trim gets some extra curves. I'm making swinging wooden shutters to cover the side windows.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0417.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696182054)
The side rub rail has scuppers cut into the back side. The piece of grey plywood with the notch will get used to align the upper and lower pickets.
Bay window trim is also simple craftsman style with a book shelf above. Book shelf and the two angle pieces cover the ends of the copper nails used to hold the roofing on.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0377.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696182502)
I'm really ready for this project to get completed.
Enjoying. :)
Wow! This is an incredible project! I haven't read through all the posts yet, so I'm just catching it, but great work!
Take the time to start at the beginning.
You will enjoy it!!!
Spectacular. Just be careful, I always find myself pushing the end of the project because I want to be done and always regret it.
Sometimes its good to take some time off.
Yeah, Crusarius, that's what I do! Just take some time off... Not procrastinate at all!
Thanks for the comments, I fear I'm getting sloppy, and it concerns me. I ended up rebuilding a door, after I had it installed. I have backed off a little to get myself settled back down, making sure I do my work correctly first. I don't really have a required schedule and it's no fun redoing work. I feel something like chopping firewood with a maul would be helpful, some simple physical work.
The roof is starting to dominate my thoughts. I have some structure to finish, then finish the sheathing. It's my concerns about the putty and sanding that's giving me fits. The roof is Western Red Cedar, 2nd growth, so it's pretty soft. I'm considering using Bondo to fill the cracks and it contains fiberglass so it could also help stabilize any knots that have dried and cracked. My fear with using bondo is that dries really hard and may make ridges and bumps during the sanding, because the cedar will sand off first. I need a fair amount of putty to fill the screw holes and gaps. I wonder if a caulk would be better.
The sanding process has also caught my attention. Wood boat builders sand their hulls with long 3-4' flexible sanding boards. Basically strips of thin plywood with emery cloth attached and 2 wood blocks for handles. I may get some help with that process.
After it gets puttied and sanded, or sanded and puttied I was going to use canvas, poor mans fiberglass they call it. Our teacher recommended a rubber compound for roofing but the problems associated with it fill pages of the internet.
I have thoroughly enjoyed your build, your artwork and humor. Thank you. As far as the roof goes, a few suggestions. As an old boat restorer from the 80's, I have rebuilt a few canvas and epoxy decks. You are correct in the putty issue with sanding. A few considerations. First, your roofing would be considered a planked deck, and fiberglass or canvas with epoxies do not work well with this. However painting canvas is the norm, and some decks done this way have lasted 50 years or more. If you are going to use epoxy over your planked roof, please consider a thin plywood (Hope this doesn't add too much weight) to prevent cracking. Second, if you are epoxying, Spread a thin coat over your wood surface and Bondo first before sanding. It will soak into the wood and harden everything up. You would have to sand before placing your canvas down, but you were going to do that anyway. Look into boat deck repairs for further insights and good luck.
Thank you for the kind words, your experience is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks for the added insights. I have watched a good few Youtubes by a nurse in AZ who has built a few teardrop trailers using canvas. She has had better luck gluing down the canvas with Titebond 2 than Titebond 3. After the initial glue and smoothing she adds 2 roller washes of 50% titebond 2 and water to the top, to fully impregnate the fibers with glue. After this dries she uses exterior latex enamel paint. What she has done looks pretty amazing.
I believe it will be best for me to sand first and then fill. I agree with your planked decked analogy, I will look further in the boat/sailing world.
Watched a few of those vids, interesting approach, should work. But before committing, you might consider looking into a boat decking technique utilizing Dynel and epoxy. Dynel is a bit stretchy, good for curved and odd surfaces, looks just like cloth canvas when done, and lasts darn near forever without any maintenance. Costs about $23/yard though, but way less than half the work. Doing my best to bog people down with options :)
After your comments I looked and found some interesting and current information about covering a planked (ocean) boat deck with canvas. It does sound durable and my intended use will be much less harsh. The instructor at Port Townsend mentioned the best storage place is an old barn which I can replicate well enough, should be a better environment than a marina.
The canvas boat deck process described is the same as the nurse. Uses TB 2 as the base adhesive. Cost is not the motivation so I will read up on the epoxy. I want durability and to avoid de-lamination. RV rubber roofs are held at the edges but the mollycroft looks like no go, it's a little to curvy. I should look at old train roofing.
I also stumbled onto a couple of videos about fairing a hull. I have my work cut out for me prepping the roof. 1) Hand plane 2) power sand 3) hand sand 4) fill 5) hand sand. Then cover.
Currently I'm finishing my side windows and shutters then I will get back to the roof. I'm going with leather straps to hold the shutters open. Finding the names of hardware and tools from different trades can take some time.
I took a look the other day at the roof and did a little test planing. Went okay, boat builders obviously use better grades of lumber. There are some cracked knots that I will likely fill before getting started so they don't break out.
Auto body hand sanders are cheap alternatives to a Fairing long board, especially for your smaller roof, around 18" should work. Old train roofing? That puts you onto a metal roof? Aluminum or something to match your beautiful bay window roof, copper. No sanding, no planing, no painting, no delam. Maybe it helps reflect the sun, keeps the vardo cooler? I am not up on the cost of copper sheeting, maybe there is some sort of glue that would hold it to the wood with some screws? Beads of caulk or French seaming the sheet metal at joints? (French Seaming, another seamstress term) I had a friend do something with aluminum sheeting on a covered trailer, he used some kind of sticky rubbery sheeting and sheet metal screws. Sorry, I do not have any long term results on this. Of course the soothing sound of rain on a metal roof may not be to the Missus' liking?
FWIW - Wood Station wagons -1930s/1940s had wood slats running front to rear: a layer of light canvas, then batting for insulation, and a waterproof rubberized fabric top. Metal gutter/drip rails along the sides. The "leading edge" had a metal cap to deflect "road flak" ( stones etc.) (at least mine did). Always thought the design was to save weight.
Soteric, good to see you posting.
I also bet it was cheaper too.
This is a great thread to follow.
The roof I kinda don't understand, but I'm not building one either. ;D
I have been working on the side windows and shutters. I will need to give the roof more thought. I can't get off my wallet enough to go with copper and the thought of rain and metal roofing won't get to first base. I'm leaning towards canvas but the curves on the mollycroft slopes might be too much. There are fabrics that can do the job and then some judging from the young woman standing in front of me at the dentist office, o.m.g! I'm feeling old and out of date. "Excuse me but I'm building a vardo and I was wondering what kind of fabric are your pants made from?" Anyways...
Shutters- I decided to continue with the drawer theme with the shutters. I find over and over sorting boards can make them look better next to each other.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0437.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698840383)
Shutter frames with weathered wood slats. Flood brand clear stain applied. I'm waiting on a couple of latches.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0474.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698840587)
The shutters must be fully open to allow the window to swing open. Tolerances got a little tight and I had to router a pocket in the shutter tops to make room for the window hinge barrel. I put a very thin piece across the middle to help keep the vertical boards aligned. I rounded the corners of the vertical boards instead of squaring up the rabbet. This is all held together by glue which I've avoided so far. I fear I may be revisiting the shutters at a later date with some nails.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0472.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698841017)
Holding the shutters open was another journey into crafts I'm not familiar with. I considered very briefly hook and eye but didn't want that swinging around going down the freeway. I cut some leather strips and wanted some brass round head bolt thing, called a button latch. Bought these from Weaver leather craft. In that category of never throw anything away I used some of my scraps from the copper roof. The button latches come with a wide head brass bolt to fasten them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0458.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698841652)
Sits on the side rail.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0471.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698841997)
I cut some old elk hide for straps but the color wasn't right. I considered old welding gloves, new work gloves, ended up going to Goodwill thinking I could buy a cheap leather purse and cut it up. My wife thought this was hilarious. Well, cheap and leather purse or worse kinky leather boots don't go together. She went along to save me the embarrassment or to laugh at me I'm not sure which. I walked out empty handed.
I went back to the shop and dug out an old leather boot lace that was soaked in automatic transmission fluid per recommendation by my father-in-law. A little copper wire and I have my shutter holders.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0470.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698842661)
Nice looking project. Could you take a few steps back and give us some overall pictures of the build so far?
Doug in SW IA
Or..... Wait till the end of your build for some full shot reveals! Patience Grasshopper..... :)
I think that is up to DMcCoy as to when and how. This thread has enough active followers (well over 14,000 reads at this point) that he knows we are all interested in this adventure greatly. If you haven't read the hole thread from the beginning, this is a good time and there are lots of photos. Many of us have been following since the first post through all the different skilled trades he has demonstrated. I personally am savoring it quite a bit and will almost (I said ALMOST) be sad when he finishes it. Every time he makes a new post it's like a little present that cheers up my day.
Be patient, this is a long road. I am sure he will have great photos when this is all done and as long as there is no spandex, I am sure we will all be very pleased and impressed by this massive project and the skills he is displaying. :)
Thank you Old Greenhorn. I don't mind posting a couple of pictures. I have just spent $60 on 2 sets of shutter latches and neither works. I'm building some today, which will work out better I think, I'll post those pictures later.
So...I'm not going to clean up or dust, you get the "as is" tour, junk, cobwebs(!!!) and all. It's a little tight, my main woodworking space I'm standing in. Welding etc. takes place on the other side.
This is the right side. The contraption hanging from the ceiling is an old Wade drag saw. It's from my wife's family and still has compression. I've been told it is to stay looking like it does so it gets the ceiling.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0477.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698950591)
This is from the back looking forwards.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0476.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698951150)
Inside, dust, dirt, and misc parts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0481.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698951297)
Left side. not much room on this side because of the loft. So much dust!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0480~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698951708)
A peek through the shop doors. Black door is water hook up/fill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0478.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1698951810)
A few questions I get commonly;
How much does it weight? I don't know, only by looking at other vardos I can guess at 3,500 lbs. + 500, -1000.
How am I going to get it out of the shop? Either skids or rollers or both and a tractor. This doesn't concern me much, my son will likely help. After that it will get lifted and set down on the trailer- a 16' flatbed. Hopefully after adjusting it to get the proper tongue weight there is a back porch.
It's mostly 12 vdc and propane, really meant to be off grid. There is 1 - 120 vac outlet.
I had a gal from Tennessee up here with a group of my son's friends last weekend. She looked me square in the eye and said 'you are going to get pulled over'...
I have struggled on how to build the mollycroft end windows, and waiting didn't help. I came to the conclusion that I needed a more traditional window frame and trim. To make all the windows match I removed all the windows in the mollycroft and started over. Despite being a set back this will solve all other issues. I had planned on making the rear windows this way, why that plan didn't transfer I can't remember.
I'm not quite finished but the method is clear. The glass gets installed in the window frame like my other windows including the gasket. The flange covers the gap between the window frame and the mollycroft frame. The flange will help with making a seal using caulk.
Here is a picture left to right- Inner trim piece, the frame, the outside flange.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0560.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700572229)
I stacked the trim piece under the flange. Using clamps and small wood blocks I kept the inside faces aligned during cutting. I'm removing excess material before routing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0562.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700573050)
I set my router table up with a straight bit and a rub block above it. The gap is about 1/4". The black mark gives me an idea of where the bit is which is helpful while doing the curved portion. It was important that the working face of the rub block was long enough to catch the overhanging portions of the flange, Again, the trim is under the flange and clamps/blocks are used to hold the inside faces in vertical alignment.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0564~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700574398)
This gives the edges a nice smooth finish and eliminates saw marks and eliminates a ton of sanding.
Here is one of the center windows. I put a 45 degree bevel on the flange to relieve the edge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0522.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700574849)
I used a laminate flush trim router bit inside to get the flange cleaned up. This left an issue at the corner. I picked up these "adorable" (son's wording) little planes up at HF. They came in a 3 pack and I really only wanted this one.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0523.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700575139)
I happened to see Leo on the 'Tally Ho' Sailboat U-Tube using one. They work amazingly well for cleaning tight into a corner where a chisel is awkward. They do come in a 3 pack...this one which I initially thought was useless happens to work really well for smoothing the tang on a brindle joint.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36370/IMG_0553.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700575493)
More later...