Generator Aggravation

[YellowHammer]

For about the last several days, I have been locking horns with my 60KW, 480V 3Phase SG60 liquid extraction generator that runs my planer.  It's been getting cranky and last week it went legs up, again.  Latest in a string of failures is my governor or speed controller, and it't the only piece on the genny that I can't work on.  The governor consists of a mag speed pickup, a CPU, and throttle body, is not made anymore, and the new ones by the manufacturer need a windows interface and software to program.  The whole mess costs nearly a couple grand and in some ways, that's putting good money on bad equipment, so I started looking for new 60Kw 480 3Phase and there is not a decent new one in the country, as all have about a 16 week to longer lead time.  There is a 480 generator shortage in the US??  I guess so  The Bay has some but it's hard putting $20K to anyone there without being able to see a used generator run under load.  So that's a non starter.

So my plan is to get the old one fixed, by me, as there local Generac service guy tried and gave up, and order and wait on a new one.  This has been aggravating at best, since without the generator, we can't use our good planer, and have resorted to our single sided backup, which is SO SLOOOOOWWWW compared to the "Big Gulp." We are basically crippled until we get this running, so it has been top priority.  So I got busy and worked on it some more.     

At least today, I was able to use a pair of vise grips, wire ties, a small twig laying on the gravel, and a little electrical tape to get the generator to hit target speed of 1800 rpm, 60Hz and 480V, all at the same time, under no load.  So now I've proved to myself I can gamble the money and get a new aftermarket governor, install it and get this thing working again.  Of course, of the three parts I need, one was unavailable from the dealer this afternoon.  So I'll spend another night web surfing for stuff.

Anyway, the whining is over, I finally see a solution on the horizon, 16 weeks out, but I thought you might get a kick out of the single throttle point rocket science (not) way I rigged things to get it to design speed.  I took the rear end off the throttle body actuator shaft, used vise grips, my timing light, and the gauges on the panel to prove it still works, at least at one point.  By the way, the critical piece of the temporary fix was a block of wood. 

[RetiredTech]

  I bought a similar device from Amazon to repair a much smaller light tree generator years ago. Of course it was made in china. It consisted of a control unit, magnetic pickup, and a servo. I fabricated a linkage to connect the servo to the throttle. It took a little while to get the settings dialed in but it worked fine for years until the generator head gave up. The complete package was less than $200.00 You might look into something like that. The prices have probably doubled by now. Or search EBay for a used unit like you need.
  Good luck. 

[Resonator]

At least it didn't end up getting "fixed" like the clothes dryer in the video...

[Southside]

Have you tried contacting the major power provider in your state?  I picked up a 35KW diesel unit with 350 hours on it for $6K from Duke Energy a couple of years ago.  The problem with it?  It was "too old", had been a backup unit for a data center and pretty much every hour on it was from the annual PM and load test.  Average working load when used was 8%.

As an option do you have enough ponies in your tractor to run a PTO unit? 

[Nebraska]

I second the pto generator suggestion. They show up on Craigslist fairly often around here.  I wouldn't want to use one long term but I've seen people milking cows and running farrowing barns for short periods of time when the power was down. 

[YellowHammer]

I'm not sure who to call as far as local power companies are concerned, but yes, I would like to find another one from a trusted vendor who had fully gone through it and load tested it.  The ones I'm finding are "It worked when it was sold to me" kind of units.

The current one I have is a 60KW, 1993 version that was run by a company who serviced cell towers and most of its hours were as a hospital backup node station.  It only had a few hundred hours on it when I got it, and was pretty reliable for a year or two, but we use it every day and the hours are stacking up.  The big issue is that whenever it malfunctions now, since it's 30 years old, the parts are non existent and I have to always change to a different source, i.e. not available form Generac. So finding parts is like an Easter egg hunt, or worst case, and the cost of the parts quickly surpass the salvage value of the generator.  as one repair guy said "quit throwing good money after bad."  I'd like to....  

The last fix I did was a magnetic speed pickup off the flywheel, it cost me $300 just for the part form a dealer who had one in the midwest, and the new controller will be $1600 and is about 25% of the value of the generator.  There is a reason they have been removed for service from their original location.  They are nearing their service life in terms of parts availability, and that's what I constantly run into.

So I'm thinking, but not convinced, to go the other way, and buy a new unit, 5 year warranty, parts and labor.  Or find another low hour, professionally maintained and serviced unit for a trusted, non savage based reseller.

I hadn't looked for PTO generators, I use my tractor everyday at the mill, and couldn't tie it up.  I had looked at "farm" generators, they are built pretty rugged, but they are almost always single phase 220V, not 480V 3 phase.

I had thought of renting one for the short term.  Also interesting enough, the names I thought were really good in generators are now becoming bad.  Companies like Deere and , Cummins are looked at with disdain because of their software lockouts, (I was even told by a local repair company to take Cummins off my list, don't get one) same with Generac, and names I've never heard of, like "Bluestar" are rising to the top because they are fully "user field serviceable," use open source software, and and can be started and used by bypassing faults manually.

That's what I'm really looking for, a relatively new, low hours, fully field serviceable with no engine software lockouts (Deere, Cummins, Generac, Kohler, PSI, etc), no generator side controller software lockouts (Generac, Kohler, and most others), and no fuel control or governor lockouts (any who use Woodard systems, which is most of them).  Or have a company allow me to buy open source software.

I figured I could just buy a new version of what I have, which I can at least work on myself.  

Now that I'm thinking of it, I wonder what is sold in third world countries or where there isn't a comprehensive dealer network with a repair guy and computer...basically an engine hooked to a generator, old school style, just with new parts.

It almost makes me think that all the lockouts would have opened the generator companies to lawsuits because maybe somebody died because they couldn't get their emergency generator running in an emergency due to a trivial lockout or sensor problem.  
       

[VTwoodworker]

Have you considered military surplus generators?  They are often low hours and military specs delete most of the complicated electronics and emissions. Not sure the best source but they do come up at auctions frequently.

[YellowHammer]

I hadn't thought of them, I've used some good ones in the past.  I wonder how to get a military surplus generator that isn't a used up piece of tinfoil.  I used to be the guy who turned old equipment into mil surplus to be auctioned off, and the stuff we got rid of was just short of really, really worn out.  

[scsmith42]

Robert, it's probably a coincidence that I spent several hours today working on my 225kw Kohler generator. Finally narrowed the problem down to a component on the injection pump, which hopefully I can pickup in the morning.

I'm the one that turned Southside onto the Duke generator deal. If you want, I can check with my source there and see what they have available. Let me know.

On your replacement generator, I'd highly recommend that you stay away from Generac. When I was in telecom we had more problems nationwide from Generac than all the other brands combined. Usually some nickle and dime part, but that still meant a cellular outage so not a good thing.

[YellowHammer]

My generator troubles are contagious!  Scott, thanks, I can use all the help I can get, but I was kind of wondering if the "lightly used but older" strategy is what I want to do.  I just don't know enough about generators in general, despite the Generac guy offering me a job as a mechanic.

Is yours a diesel?  I was thinking about one of them but got worried I'd "wet pipe" it with my planer not being a constant high load.  I had originally gone with LP because I thought it would have an extended life over diesel, but it's having lots of issues with low hours anyway, some with the engine, a 7.4L 454 V8, some with the controller, some with the switches, some with rotted connectors, etc.  It's a shotgun issue, seems a little of everything has been breaking down lately, low hours but it is a 1993, and I'm not sure that just being 30 years old isn't most of the problem?  So I was thinking new, with warranty.  Maybe in the 60Kw to 80KW range, LP or Diesel.

What I have learned is that Kohler, like the one you have, was the odds on and unanimous favorite brand from every single generator person I asked, even the Generac guy.  Kohler, Kohler and more Kohler.  That surprised me.     

When (if) a standby generator is used with a cyclic, non constant load, like a planer, what fails?  Does the engine get too hot and overheat, do the windings on the generator burn up, or?  I have had some people tell me the only difference between a prime and standby generator is that it's the same generator, just derated?

[SawyerTed]

Just throwing it out as a possible source - Iron Planet and Ritchie Brothers Auctions list a variety of sizes of generators - some are huge like 4,750 kwa.  There are several 50-100 kwa both stationary and trailer mounted.

[scsmith42]

Robert, I'll answer in more depth later today when im at my desk.  Short answer, for production I prefer diesel, for home standby I prefer LP or NG. Gasoline last choice. 

Kohler, the older Onan's, and MQ Power are some of the best generators. CAT makes good large gens (megawat), but it's really hard to beat Kohler in terms of quality and engineering.

[scsmith42]

My generator troubles are contagious!  Scott, thanks, I can use all the help I can get, but I was kind of wondering if the "lightly used but older" strategy is what I want to do.  I just don't know enough about generators in general, despite the Generac guy offering me a job as a mechanic.

Is yours a diesel?  I was thinking about one of them but got worried I'd "wet pipe" it with my planer not being a constant high load.  I had originally gone with LP because I thought it would have an extended life over diesel, but it's having lots of issues with low hours anyway, some with the engine, a 7.4L 454 V8, some with the controller, some with the switches, some with rotted connectors, etc.  It's a shotgun issue, seems a little of everything has been breaking down lately, low hours but it is a 1993, and I'm not sure that just being 30 years old isn't most of the problem?  So I was thinking new, with warranty.  Maybe in the 60Kw to 80KW range, LP or Diesel.

What I have learned is that Kohler, like the one you have, was the odds on and unanimous favorite brand from every single generator person I asked, even the Generac guy.  Kohler, Kohler and more Kohler.  That surprised me.   

When (if) a standby generator is used with a cyclic, non constant load, like a planer, what fails?  Does the engine get too hot and overheat, do the windings on the generator burn up, or?  I have had some people tell me the only difference between a prime and standby generator is that it's the same generator, just derated?

Robert, mine is actually an early 1980's vintage unit.  When I bought it i also got a complete spare electronic control package with it, and thus far (15 years) it's done well.  I've done a water pump, rebuilt the injection pump, and just installed the second shut down solenoid on the injection pump, but otherwise it's been a good unit.  When I bought it I replaced the radiator and just about every sensor on the unit.

Here are some pix of my generator room.  The walls are sound deadened and the generator rails sit on vibration attenuating felt and foam.






It is way overkill for what I use it for.  I was originally looking for a 75KW - 100 KW unit, and then ran across this one on a deal too good to pass up.  There has been zero issues with it pulling either a light load - or a heavy one.  The smallest motor that I occasionally operate off of it is 15 hp on 480.  The heaviest is the wide belt sander; combined it's 105hp.

I have one asset in my back pocket though.... I'm close friends with the worlds best generator mechanic (pre modern-computer version).  Gene Ezzell has been in the heavy diesel business since the 1960's and in the generator biz since the late 80's.  He's one of these old timers that has an IQ of around 200 when it comes to machinery and equipment, but does not do well in social settings....  When I bought the 225KW unit I asked Gene if wet stacking was going to be a problem, and he said don't worry about it.  That was 15 years ago and it's never been an issue.

The challenge is cost / benefit / hassle / downtime.  When we bought our second and third mobile hospitals for my wife's veterinary practice back in 2005, they came with the Onan 10KW quiet diesel generators that were used in upscale RV's at the time.  I had more problems with those darn Onan's and finally replaced them with a relatively unknown brand - Engine Power Source (EPS) - at Gene's suggestion.  The problem with the Onan's was always some computer widget that went bad or acted up on a sporadic basis.  In 5 years (around 6000 - 7000 hours per generator) I spent more on maintenance of those Onan units than what they originally cost.  The EPS units - on the other hand - are a joy.  Kubota engines, Newage (US Mfg) alternators, and minimal computer controls to go bad (which is one reason why Gene liked them!).  EPS has the basic low oil pressure, high temp protection, but not the $2,000 control boards like the Onan's.  We've put over 20K hours on the EPS's and I think the only unscheduled maintenance was that I had to replace a crimp connector that had broken inside it.

IF you buy new, I'd definitely encourage you to look over EPS's offerings.  They are based in Rock Hill SC so that's a plus too since they are in the SE USA.

In 2004 I headed up the generator standardization project for a major Telecom.  We had no national standards and a plethora of different models, brands, etc across the country.  As part of that process I toured all of the major generator manufacturers and also did a lot of surveys of our Ops techs across the US.  Kohler was the clear winner in terms of dependability, engineering and manufacturer.  Cat had a strong presence for backup of our Central Offices (Megawatt sized units), with Onan running almost neck and neck in this size range.  But for the 25 - 100K size units that we used at our cell sites (and also mobile backup), Kohler was hands down the best.  Onan's quality was dropping at the time because they decided to "race to the bottom" and try to compete with Generac on price.  The funny thing about Generac was that almost all of our unscheduled maintenance was due to some 20 dollar part that had prematurely failed.  But that's not a good thing when the generator is keeping your cell site providing critical communications during a major storm / power outage.

One thing that was interesting to me was the breakdown of power outages across the US.  Here in the 13 states that make up the SE USA we had more power outages than the rest of the country combined.  The reason way is 1- hurricanes, 2 - ice storms, and 3 - tornado's.  Ice storms were the worst as they could knock out power for several days.  The rest of the US just did not have the same power challenges. 

I think that my current generator count is down to six from nine.  The house backup is an 2001 vintage Onan 35KW that was a Duke Power good used takeout (350 hours!)  It's set up for liquid LP  There is one gasoline 6.5KW Honda and everything else is diesel.  The biggest advantage of LP/natural gas is that you don't have to worry about the fuel going bad.  Most of them use an industrial version of a common gasoline engine.  But diesels have the benefit of being better suited for extended run time and fuel efficiency.  Plus you can usually find diesel fuel during an outage - try refilling a 500 - 1000 gallon LP tank when your whole area has a power failure due to an ice storm....

Back when I built the current shop 3 phase electricity was not available at the street, and it was going to come me over 30K to bring it in from down the road.  So I opted for a generator figuring that it would be a resellable asset.  Yes, I may panic a bit when the generator goes down unexpectedly, but even figuring fuel, oil changes, acquisition cost and all maintenance costs over 15 years, I still haven't spent anywhere near 30K.

A few years ago the power co ran an additional high voltage line down the road in front of the farm, so today I can bring in 480 3 phase if I wish.  I started to do this right before Covid hit, but put it on hold not knowing how the economy was going to do.  I still think about it, but shy away due to my age and the fact that after I spend the $ to switch over - I'll be exactly back where I currently am.

Lots of utility companies have older but serviceable generators.  These were backup units for remote offices, etc that they might have outgrown as the local area was developed and the office expanded.  I picked up a 35KW Onan like mine (LP) and a 20KW portable diesel unit last year and shipped them to some friends in Texas.  Both only had a few hundred hours on them.

[YellowHammer]

That is a great write up!  It seems odd that since a generator is for emergency use, the manufacturer's make them more complicated and less bullet proof.  I had assumed it was the other way around, generators would be using modern technology to be built like a tank and stupid reliable. 

[WV Sawmiller]

  May be a little off topic but if you do use your Genset as back up to prime power I suggest you make sure you have a good battery powered (Rechargeable!) light in there lighting it up in case you have to work on it during a power outage.

    I put gensets on all our apartments and villas in Cameroon when I was on a project there. Pretty quick I found I was having to call out my emergency response guys for everything from dead batteries to other issues when the Gensets did not fire up or shut down unexpectedly. I'd find my techs out there with dim flashlights trying to fix the machines. I went ahead and placed good battery powered rechargeable lights where they were needed so the guys could at least see to work on them when necessary.

    BTW - power outages and genset failures tend to occur more at night than during daylight hours.

[tule peak timber]

Two weeks ago, I got a quote on a new Cat D100 for $35k but the salespeople won't give me any information on THD of the alternator end. Typical salespeople want to play it safe. So, I took my questions to Eaton and Maddox transformer people and have some reasonable solutions to interface between a diesel gen set and the CNC I have yet to identify. Cat would be my choice, so there are a lot of Cats out there, notably used ex-hospital units that no longer meet the ever-changing air quality standards. I am shopping between 100 and 250kw and plan to load the set once a week to prevent wet stacking. It's surprising if you start adding up your equipment how fast you can get to a couple of hundred kw. There are many fine units in the central US, Texas and Pennsylvania that are open skid, reasonably priced and have less than 1000 hrs. on them; all ex-military, data center, hospital etc. change outs. Locally I have a choice between a Cat 3306, with an SR4 end that is probably mid 1980's and I am sure I can get plenty of parts should I need them. Another choice is a 250kw Kohler with a 671, ex-military base standby unit, that is like new, but it has the 671 engine. We used to call jimmys screamers and squirters, as they gobbled up diesel. So, I'm not sure that is a good choice either. One of the issues I am facing is that a CNC is a non-lineal load and generates harmonics that have to go someplace (usually up in heat) by some component in the system. A straight-out power conditioner runs between 35 and 50k$, which is excessive. They make transformers called K rated units that will absorb and buffer to a great degree the harmonics generated by something like a CNC. It's a complex conundrum, sort of the chicken before the egg thing, and I've been going round and round with Cat, Stamford, Eaton and Maddox. Very difficult to get past the salespeople and to their engineering departments.

So, I'm probably going to end up with a used military or hospital take out unit. Just waiting to find the right set and arrange to get it shipped here. On the property, I have a Kabota Stamford standby set that is 24-1/2 years old and performs flawlessly for our frequent power outages. In CA if the wind blows or if there is a fire or it's hot in the summer, they just shut off our power as we are in an outlying area. I specified a Kabota set for my little fish camper if I ever get to use it, !

[scsmith42]

Rob, if you opt for former military make sure that it was a U.S. mfg unit from a major generator manufacturer.

A lot of military equipment is NATO spec and foreign manufacture. Sourcing parts can be very problematic.

For this reason I'd lean more towards an ex hospital unit.

[tule peak timber]

SC, 
You have a beautiful looking setup. The only thing I see missing is bleeding off excess warm air to help heat the shop. 

The older equipment I'm looking at have nameplates and if you start looking at the fine print, it is interesting where their parts and bits are actually manufactured. I'm interested in old school, big iron and possibly a new voltage regulator after market. The ex-military stuff are base standby units used here domestically that just don't meet current air quality standards. If they were good enough to power an airport 10 years ago, they're good enough to power me today. There are some tricks that can be done with passive power massage to deal with a non-lineal load that are not overly expensive, but it's sort of a rabbit warren of information trying to work your way through this maze. One thing is for sure, power in my area is not getting any better, only worse and less dependable and if I want to grow my business I will need to depend on my own power. But then again, CA is going ALL electric!

Do you have any rough stats on your diesel use per week/month/year? You had a very good write up on cost benefit reward. It would be neat if you could/would share some numbers. I am struggling with these numbers trying to extrapolate out to see if I want to sink enough dough into my operation to make it worthwhile. I also know there is an expiration date on both me and my plans and that bears weight also. And my wife says your generator room is way too clean!!

[jmouton]

so odly enough i buy and sell used generators on the side,,,my buddy owns an electrical company here in mich ,,,,i get used models 40 -50 of them at least 3 -4 times a yr ,,,some run some dont,,,,i dont test them,,,,but i do come across 3 phase unit from time to time and those are harder to sell for me ,,,most of the time i sell to one person all at once ,,,same person buys all my gennys ,,,but if you were looking for one or a specific part ,,,,,and i had a part number ,,,i might be able to help out 

[scsmith42]

SC,
You have a beautiful looking setup. The only thing I see missing is bleeding off excess warm air to help heat the shop.

The older equipment I'm looking at have nameplates and if you start looking at the fine print, it is interesting where their parts and bits are actually manufactured. I'm interested in old school, big iron and possibly a new voltage regulator after market. The ex-military stuff are base standby units used here domestically that just don't meet current air quality standards. If they were good enough to power an airport 10 years ago, they're good enough to power me today. There are some tricks that can be done with passive power massage to deal with a non-lineal load that are not overly expensive, but it's sort of a rabbit warren of information trying to work your way through this maze. One thing is for sure, power in my area is not getting any better, only worse and less dependable and if I want to grow my business I will need to depend on my own power. But then again, CA is going ALL electric!

Do you have any rough stats on your diesel use per week/month/year? You had a very good write up on cost benefit reward. It would be neat if you could/would share some numbers. I am struggling with these numbers trying to extrapolate out to see if I want to sink enough dough into my operation to make it worthwhile. I also know there is an expiration date on both me and my plans and that bears weight also. And my wife says your generator room is way too clean!!

Rob - in all honesty those photo's were taken 15 years ago right after I built the shop and put the generator in service!  It doesn't look quite that nice now....

Fuel burn rate depends upon loading, but it averages in the 5 - 7 gph range.  Typically when I'm running it we're running the jointer / planer (around 48 total HP), the wide belt sander (105hp), or the 6 head Wadkin moulder.  A 15hp dust collection system (60" blower) is running concurrently with all of these loads.  Unsurprisingly, I've never heard it bog down from any of my equipment.

Wet stacking has never been an issue for me.  There are no signs of unburned fuel in the exhaust, downstream of the turbo, etc.  The muffler is located horizontally (couple of degree downtilt so rain does not run up the exhaust pipe from outside), about 4' directly above the generator with it's exhaust pipe running about 4' and protruding through the wall.  No diesel drips on the ground under the tip of the exhaust pipe, and the only time I see black smoke is when the generator fires up and accelerates from 0 - 1800 rpm.  This is not surprising; startup fuel pressure is almost 200psi versus no-load 1800 rpm fuel pressure is around 20.

I do keep a block heater running 7/24/365 so the oil temp is always around 120F, and the water temp usually stays around 185 when running.  On the other hand - I've never seen the turbo exhaust housing glowing cherry red, and the exhaust elbow that comes out of the turbo discharge still has traces of paint on it - so it's clearly not being worked very hard.  Yet in several hundred operating hours over 15 years, wet stacking has been a non-issue.  Perhaps it's due to how the Cummins PV injection pump manages fuel pressure? 

[tule peak timber]

SC,
Thanks for the reply.

I did some additional studying early this morning on the 671 Kohler set and the data sheet shows that it also should burn 5-6 gph at 50% power. It sounds like you have enough motors in your shop to be able to occasionally load up your set to the point that it can stay clean. I ran a large Cummins in my boat for years at lower rpm, simply to save fuel and never had any issues with the engine loading up. As far as raw cost of operation, after installation, I look at it as sort of having another helper, money wise, per day. How much work can be done with 6 gph is the responsibility of the business owner with planning and workflow. It's fun to go on Youtube and listen to various gensets cranking at 1800 rpm and some are definitely easier to live with than others. Is there a reason that you didn't vent any of the warm air back into the shop? Just trying to get every bang for the buck from every gallon burned. It sounds funny for where I live but heating the shop in the winter is serious business.



Rob

[scsmith42]

Re venting back into the shop - yes there is a reason!

The generator is so loud that you can't carry on a conversation in the genny room - even yelling right into someone's ear standing next to you.

With the door closed, you can carry on a conversation right outside.  The walls  and ceiling of the generator room have open cell spray foam, with sill foam strips isolating the sheetrock from the studs.  There are two layers of 5/8" sheetrock on the inside walls, with green glue in-between them, and then a 1/2" layer of sound deadening board on the inside walls and doors.

A lot of the noise follows the air flow, and exits outside the shop walls via the radiator (push style instead of pull).

There are air inlet windows in the generator room, so the shop is somewhat noise isolated from the generator.  Plus, I have radiant heat in the shop for the winter.

If I tried to use waste heat from the generator into the shop, I'd have both a noise problem as well as an airflow problem (it shoves a lot of air thru the radiator).  So that's why I don't try to reclaim the heat.

Factored into this is that we only run the generator on average for a few hours every week.  Some weeks it might be 6 hours a day for 3-4 days, and other weeks nada if we're focused on milling and kiln cycling.

Funny story on me - when I first installed the generator I had it bolted directly to the concrete slab.  At that time my horizontal resaw was right outside the generator room door, and the Mattison 202 straight line rip saw (SLR) was 6' away from the resaw. 

One day a month or so into using the shop I had to change the blade on the resaw.  Rather than shut the generator down, I left it running, removed the old blade and put it on the cast iron table for the SLR while I installed a new blade.  I heard something funny sounding, and looked a the old band blade and it was dancing along the surface of the resaw!  Seems that the generator was putting a lot of vibrations directly into the slab and they were channeling into the SLR. 

That got me to researching noise frequencies and vibration, and I ended up with two different densities of foam and a run of felt installed in-between the generator skid and the concrete slab.  Vibration problem solved, but it sure surprised the heck out of me!

[tule peak timber]

Makes sense. I am going to lay concrete in two weeks and will be incorporating hydronics to be fed from a couple of different sources. I'm very familiar with vibration dampening and microphonics from a previous career and it is good that you found a solution and can live with it. Rock wool is a really good material for dampening layered between mass loaded vinyl. Your usage sounds like mine might be hours/week wise.
 I'm going to rethink my air flow plan. I was able to bleed off some hot air from the diesel set in my camper into the head and that worked out pretty well. It is actually a variable speed powered vent that can dial in heat on command. I wanted to do something like that on a larger scale, but you have a serious point with the noise issue. I'm looking at creative ideas to load the future set occasionally to prevent wet stacking and it would be nice to stockpile that energy for short term future use.
 I have similar heat exchange/loss issues with a new second dust system as I hate dealing with filters that exhaust indoors.
 The biggest reason I'm looking at additional power is the future CNC machine which is picky about clean , steady power and it generates power issues of it's own that need to be addressed. I cannot get a straight answer from anyone on a reliable setup let alone estimate return on investment. Frustrating but I believe the answers are out there.
  

[scsmith42]

One thing about air flow - the generator requires a significant air intake.  Around 15-20 sq. ft or so.

[YellowHammer]

@jmouton i appreciate the offer, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for....

I look at the diesel prime or continuous generators for sale at about 60KW and they have 10,000 even 20,000 hours on them, which is I assume, the reason they are being sold.  Then I see lots of LP or NG being sold at only a couple thousand hours to less. 

Why is there such a disparity in service life?  I really don't care which fuel I get, I get both my diesel and LP trucked in and pumped, but it seems the LP systems are not as durable?

I would really like to get a Yanmar or Kubota system because my very good local tractor dealership is authorized to work on either engine.  I wouldn't consider a Deere because my local dealership are crooks. 

Besides Bluestar, are there any that are full open source?