couple pics... post what your currently cutting

[ehp]

Walnut weight depends on how much water is in the tree but its lighter than oak and at this time of year it should have a fair amount of water in it , I have my scaling lic. in all 5 types of log scaling and can scale anywhere legally in Canada and have had this sense 1980 . Without seeing the logs in person it's hard to say but $4.50/ft I know I would not be happy with but like I said before lots can change on the log lengths , Cutting timber is the easy part, cutting the tree into the highest grade or money value is where you make or loss money fast  , then selling it is the other part . As far as you only getting a check with no slip I can honestly say I have never seen that , Every log should have a printed read out of what it is, length, grade and value . 

[ehp]

Man big difference in size of your loads , here if truck has its trailer with it if I donot see at least 8000 ft scale I'm asking questions and if I'm cutting good size timber it better be 10,000 or better scale in dolye 

[Hans2017]

Lots going on in this thread. 
First if this is your first sale that is a very good job at cutting Walnut. 
Most of the reasons have been discussed already but being in Iowa summer pricing is a real thing. Also if the longer length logs were scaled that way that may be part of the problem.I understand why they do that to keep the end checking down. 
 We see some difference in the scale on different bid on cut logs. When we have Walnut laid out and different buyers mark with different colored paint some mills will chase a crooked 14" top log some will simply x those.
One thing I do is mark and scale myself. This is me trying to learn how best to buck comparing to how the different buyers mark.
   Maybe I read these post wrong but if you averaged 4.50 that isn't terrible if there was only 5 veneer logs with the trees averaging 235-250 per tree. We sell all of ours on the landing with the trucking on the buyer.Would be interesting to know how much the 5 hour trucking cost would be some one on here should know. If they sent 2 trucks that far they may have charged for that. Also maybe send a link of this discussion to the Buyer. Thanks for putting this on here as it helps a lot with people learning the process.

[Ljohnsaw]

Would be interesting to know how much the 5 hour trucking cost would be some one on here should know. If they sent 2 trucks that far they may have charged for that.

So, I have a pretty good logger that supplies me. IIRC, he charges $120/hr, round trip. So, that 5 hour trip would be $1,200. times 2 trucks, that's $2,400 off the top!

[BargeMonkey]

 I've never cut alot of it, the education is appreciated. The kid says there's about 70 of them that size, few quite a bit bigger, and a couple load of hard maple on 40acres outside Albany for a quick winter project at somepoint. 


 Ed I haven't even cut any wood this year and I'm already sick of it. Start a 128acre job in 2-4wks when I get back. Sent my Hood to slash for another guy I'm doing a 25acre clear-cut with, buying wood from 2 other guys, trailers of beautiful 20' processor wood, go away in November to Florida and park it all on the lawn for a while. 


 


 Watching "Fleet Week" go by. 

[Walnut Beast]

Walnut weight depends on how much water is in the tree but its lighter than oak and at this time of year it should have a fair amount of water in it , I have my scaling lic. in all 5 types of log scaling and can scale anywhere legally in Canada and have had this sense 1980 . Without seeing the logs in person it's hard to say but $4.50/ft I know I would not be happy with but like I said before lots can change on the log lengths , Cutting timber is the easy part, cutting the tree into the highest grade or money value is where you make or loss money fast  , then selling it is the other part . As far as you only getting a check with no slip I can honestly say I have never seen that , Every log should have a printed read out of what it is, length, grade and value .

I'm going to put it out there. You have been left in the dark on pricing. Guys this is getting more painful and embarrassing here is the total of the check for all those quality and size of  logs that is supposed to be 3,750bf. I said at the time that I was expecting between 20- 25 k minimum with my calculations to the buyer. He swore I was getting getting a good deal. I definitely know I got deceived and ripped off.  

[so il logger]

Oh, I'm very sure they are sorted on the yard by now.. may as well cash that check. 

[mudfarmer]

Don't want to pile on but what is there to sort out? My understanding is you didn't scale or even measure the logs, then let someone load them on a truck and took a check from them. We've all gotta take our lumps and admit we messed up sometimes.

Looks like it at least paid for your new saws and gear, break even plus a little is better than losing your shirt. Chin up and keep cutting

[Firewoodjoe]

Looks like it at least paid for your new saws and gear, break even plus a little is better than losing your shirt. Chin up and keep cutting

That's logging! Break even and do it cause you love it. 😁

[beenthere]

 I haven't and don't plan on cashing the check till this gets sorted out.

Not sure I understand how this plan will solve anything. ??  What am I missing? 

[chet]

Myself personally, if I accepted the check and the truck drove off, I would consider the transaction a done deal. If I had second thoughts after the fact, I would strive for a more favorable outcome next time. 

[Walnut Beast]

I haven't and don't plan on cashing the check till this gets sorted out.

Not sure I understand how this plan will solve anything. ??  What am I missing?

Cashing the check is considered to be acceptance of the offer.

[stavebuyer]

I haven't and don't plan on cashing the check till this gets sorted out.

Not sure I understand how this plan will solve anything. ??  What am I missing?

Cashing the check is considered to be acceptance of the offer.

I would suggest that Fox news vs Dominion Voting Systems might be applicable. Doubtful a forum post will carry much weight in an evidentiary hearing.  I don't know squat about Nebraska, but here the first in line to a claim is a Mechanics lien and since you loaded the trailer and the logs were hauled that would make the trucker first in line. Want to make a wager what the haul bill will amount to?

[Walnut Beast]

Everyone's opinion is fine by me. But when I'm a first time log seller and the log buyer isn't being honest and deceived me by thousands that's not fine by me and to bad for you. I know what was said between us. Some might say cry baby to bad for you. That's ok! But that doesn't give the buyer that works for the company to rip people off. I'm not going down without a fight if somebody else has to decide and it costs three times as much. 

I didn't load the truck and the truck seemed to be owned by the company. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Well, lots been said.   WB I can see why your on the war path. You got the short end.   It always stings like crazy don't it?  It has happened to everybody in this business, timber buyers, loggers, log buyers, mill owners, even truckers.  Once in a while your gonna take it in the teeth.  

I think you've sold your logs and wont get much traction getting them back or more cash from the buyer.  Pretty much a done deal maybe. We're it me I'd be mad, stew about it then move on. Chalk it up to an expensive educational experience.   I can guarantee it aint going to happen to you again.  No sir, you learned from this.  We all been there. I know I have many MANY times.
Remember its only a stupid mistake if its the second, or third : :D, time you've done it.

[ehp]

WB to be honest there is very little you can do , once those logs left your place they no longer are yours , I'm on your side but just telling you the facts . One thing thou unless I read it wrong I thought you got $4.5/ft and you got 3750 ft and those numbers did not add up to what your check in the picture was 

[Walnut Beast]

No the guy in Iowa said he averaged 4.50 on everything except veneer. The buyer said no he didn't when I questioned him. And he basically said all the other people out there don't know pricing or what they are talking about. In our last conversation I said these other loggers that are doing this everyday know a lot and can tell by pictures of a pretty good idea what stuff is and have a pretty good idea on price. After he got my pictures I sent him he didn't say a word about them but was real eager to get here

[nativewolf]

Check with no tally sheet, log truck there an hour after buyer left, double truck with only 3700bdft.  WB got an expensive lesson.  Sadly WB I don't think the resolution is worth it.  Cash the check.  Never deal with Tracey again.  Bad mouth them to the world as they took you- they deserve it.  I would not be shy about expressing your opinion.  File a complaint with state, with state forestry folks and with the forestry folks in the home state.  Put it out on their facebook/instagram/social media sites, etc.  
I'm cutting in warmer conditions than you (in VA), our spring is weeks ahead of you, my buyer is not pulling any of that crapola about cutting a log back that is going in a container in less than a week.  FYI to all members domestic mills are swamped and most of the summer wood cut and bought in the USA is going straight into a container where it gets up to 130 and humidity stays at max while the container goes to Vietnam or China or Germany or X.   Those double length veneer logs (and they looked like it from photos- but you could have had something wrong, I don't know) were $2-3000 plus logs all day here and it seemed as if more than 5.  I'm selling 7' logs with no room to cut anything back, 8' 12" logs, etc.  I've only sold 7 veneer logs (as we are cutting crapola field trees) but even them I'm not getting hit with cutting anything back on veneer either.  
It was an expensive education but at this time I would cut losses WB and cash the check.  Stay in the business, find better buyers.  Make them price each log as they scale it and check the scale and sell into strength- cut nice logs in fall.  If they want to scale a 10' log to a 9' than pull out a saw and cut the 1' off and hammer in log savers because you can bet your sweet cheeks that 10' log went right into the container as a 3 meter export veneer log and not a 2.5 meter export log.  Last thing I'll say is that in my experience you have to be willing to find good buyers.  I didn't know a lot and log buyer after buyer would push to see how much I knew so I learned.  There are loggers in VA that took 30 years of logging to finally sell a load of logs for more than 10k.  Take solace in that you have done as well.  Keep the chains sharp.  Go do it again and double the value of the sale and don't let this bit of experience with the bad side of our world discourage you.  We all enjoyed the pics of those nice walnuts.  You could have done a much worse job dropping them.  If you'd had a skidder or forwarder you'd have looked like a professional logger.  Keep on cutting, buy that skidder.  Have fun!  

I'm ashamed to say but my not very good logs are getting the same price WB did and that's if anyone believes the scale was "honest" :(.  

[chevytaHOE5674]

Native we can disagree on a few points like "most of the summer wood cut and bought in the USA is going straight into a container", that maybe true for some areas but in the upper great lakes very little is put in containers, I have a friend buying 70k feet of logs a day (and is one buyer out of 18ish for the company) and 99% of that is sawed right here, only some of the Birdseye and curl is exported.

And this one "If they want to scale a 10' log to a 9' than pull out a saw and cut the 1' off" you are free to do that but then I would scale the 9' as an 8'. The reason to buy a 10' at 9' is by the time we got that to our veneer mill and on the slicer we would have to trim a lot off the ends to clean up the stain and checks of summer cut wood. In our case we wanted as white of hard maple as possible. A week in the summer sun and it was no longer white enough on the ends to spin and sell. We would sometimes have to cut 10s into x2 4' logs and waste a bunch to get clean enough wood when logs had been sitting.

[Southside]

Ok, so WB you absolutely have a right to be unhappy with how things are, but so far you haven't said that you actually scaled your logs and you have a picture of a truck from one angle. Making a claim of fraud, naming the company and the buyer, saying you have been ripped off to the tune of thousands of dollars and not demonstrating any supportive evidence is a good way to open up a legal problem. 

With what you have shown so far this is a he said / she said, and the other party can't chime in. 

I am not saying I don't believe or support you, but I can guarantee you if someone was making claims like this about me and I found out about it, my response would be to put up the evidence or shut up, and if that didn't work then I would look at legal actions. 

Call the company, lodge a complaint, request a scale slip and any truck weight scales they may have run over. If they are above board then I suspect they will give you anything they have. 

I am sorry this went down the way it did. Believe me I get it, let's not make it worse. We swim in a pretty small pool. 

[so il logger]

Cashing the check is considered to be acceptance of the offer.

Allowing the logs to be loaded and leave you're landing is acceptance to the offer. You physically received the check face to face with the buyer before the loading commenced, right? I am in no way holding up for Tracy export, I'm just viewing this as a bystander. To me the acceptance happened the moment you took the check and I am sure the buyer ran the total past you before bothering with making a check. Whether the logs was worth 3x the amount of half, you accepted the offer. Otherwise the logs would be laying right where you put them. Without seeing each log in real life vs a pic on the internet nobody can say you got took big time. Too many things to look for on close inspection to know. I do believe you received a lowish price per ft, but I didn't see what they did and I didn't drive 2 log trucks and a buyers truck 5 hours 1 way to see them. Don't get discouraged, this is what we deal with at times

[YellowHammer]

In the future, I would recommend the technique that works for me, and what I see the "pros" use around here by having my own scale stick and walking the line on the opposite side as the "seller".  I have my cell phone in hand with a tally spreadsheet open, they generally have a note book, or some may have a wireless computer.  The length is determined by the scale sticks, which are walked or "flipped" down the log to measure length, and the end diameter is called out and agreed upon by whoever is on the small end of the log.  If I don't know the other guy, them I will also measure from my end to get an idea of how they measure their end.  Then the grade or deflects are called out, etc and a bdft value assigned to the log.  If there is mismatch, then it settled right then and there and the bdft and value entered into my cell phone and their notebook.  It sounds a little slow, but it goes quite fast.  

The conversation goes about like this: "10 foot" "No, back it to 9" "20 inch" "144" "$3?" "No, lots of sap, $275" and on to the next one.  Most times the log is then marked by spray paint, either an "L" line which goes from bark to butt, or my mark "HHA", or theirs.  If the logs are from a specific seller, landowner or broker, then the logs will be marked with their initials, and the values of each log relayed back to them with the check.  I've even seen the high class walnut log buyers here print out a barcode and staple it to the end of the log, right then and there.

Around here, it's very unusual to buy and sell very nice logs like those shown in the picture without documentation and a readily available tally sheet on each log, listed by grade, tally, and $amount going back to the originator.  The paint marks on the log also tell the loader operator to load the log on the trailer.  If there is no paint mark, it doesn't go.  The loader operator is a backup safety, their job is to not load a log until it gets marked.  Also, when looking at the end of the trailer, each log should have a visible paint mark, brand, or something on them to indicate that have been scaled and included in the tally.  We don't do this for lower value logs, but yes, for high value walnut, you bet.

Walnut logs are tracked here so closely that I once bought a couple loads and the place I bought them from came up one log short for one buyer because they had not assigned the correct log to them on the tally sheet.  They called me up and we were able to recreate the tally and find the mislabeled log belonging to the different landowner by me calling out the initials and markings of the logs over the phone.  So they tracked down one lost log.

[Dom]

Good lessons learned, and emotions are high right now. In the end the wood industry is small and in the future you may want to have Tracey bid against other buyers. That doesn't mean you'll ever sell to them again.  ;)

It's one bad transaction, of maybe many more. It still looks profitable, may have left some cash on the table. 
Go buy a new helmet,be proud of what you accomplished. 

[barbender]

I'd probably take the money at this point, and put it toward a cable skidder for more effectively getting those beauties to the landing. I'm too far away to know from your area and markets to know if you got taken. Others that are in the know say the board footage number is reasonable, that was my main concern. The other issue is the lack of an individual tally for the logs. I only worked on one job where a buyer from a hardwood grade sawmill came out. They scaled, marked and tallied every log, and these were just #1 and veneer red and bur oak.

 Honestly, it would be foolish of him to rip you off when you have more of the same to sell. Doesn't mean someone wouldn't do it, but if they are a long term player in the market that would be very counter productive.

[logbyr]

This post brings up lots of questions.   One I haven't heard of is does anyone here know what wood in Nebraska cuts like?   Are they wormy/pecky/pinny.   Its definitely off the beaten path for walnut.  Just because they r big nice walnut doesn't mean they will make good veneer ($).    I had my butt handed to me on beautiful walnut logs from MO and TN.    Nothing showing on winter cut logs but boy were there surprises inside.   The craziness in walnut has made it very profitable to truck logs from bad areas and sell them in good areas or sell to buyers who have yards in good "northern Midwest areas.  Some FF members seem to do this with great sucess.   Guarantee the guy who slices off area logs he bought in a good area, into sheets of veneer 1/50" thick finds the problems.   I haven't found a place yet that compensates me for my errors.  Its a tough business and most have spent significantly to earn their education.   Even experienced guys get burned.    Walnut logs are the most difficult thing any veneer mill has to procure.   I've personally almost given up because there are so many ways to get burned.   Its a very cruel business today.