couple pics... post what your currently cutting

[OH logger]

True statements by logbyr. I'm in Ohio and my log buyers always talk about Missouri Nd Iowa's walnut as Havin a ton of peck and sap issues compared to here. Don't know if that's true but I've heard the same
Story from several buyers. They must have way more peckerwoods over there. That's what my previous employee from Texas called woodpeckers lol 

[nativewolf]

I'd probably take the money at this point, and put it toward a cable skidder for more effectively getting those beauties to the landing. I'm too far away to know from your area and markets to know if you got taken. Others that are in the know say the board footage number is reasonable, that was my main concern. The other issue is the lack of an individual tally for the logs. I only worked on one job where a buyer from a hardwood grade sawmill came out. They scaled, marked and tallied every log, and these were just #1 and veneer red and bur oak.

Honestly, it would be foolish of him to rip you off when you have more of the same to sell. Doesn't mean someone wouldn't do it, but if they are a long term player in the market that would be very counter productive.

I have had it happen so many times it isn't funny.  Some of the poor local loggers had been ripped off for decades until I introduced them to real veneer buyers.  Sad stuff.  

[nativewolf]

This post brings up lots of questions.   One I haven't heard of is does anyone here know what wood in Nebraska cuts like?   Are they wormy/pecky/pinny.   Its definitely off the beaten path for walnut.  Just because they r big nice walnut doesn't mean they will make good veneer ($).    I had my butt handed to me on beautiful walnut logs from MO and TN.    Nothing showing on winter cut logs but boy were there surprises inside.   The craziness in walnut has made it very profitable to truck logs from bad areas and sell them in good areas or sell to buyers who have yards in good "northern Midwest areas.  Some FF members seem to do this with great sucess.   Guarantee the guy who slices off area logs he bought in a good area, into sheets of veneer 1/50" thick finds the problems.   I haven't found a place yet that compensates me for my errors.  Its a tough business and most have spent significantly to earn their education.   Even experienced guys get burned.    Walnut logs are the most difficult thing any veneer mill has to procure.   I've personally almost given up because there are so many ways to get burned.   Its a very cruel business today.  

Is it worse than Cherry?  I mean you are in great cherry country I guess but I always heard cherry could be quite tough.  

[Hogdaddy]

Well, to me a $4.50 AVERAGE is flying for walnut right now. I've never have got anything near that high for tree run walnut. The highest I've ever sold was 50 trees, about 11k feet that averaged 3.38 when walnut was at its highest in the fall of 21.(That was with 2 logs that brought $10 a foot) Its hard for me to believe anyone in the country gets $4.50 AVERAGE on several trees, tree run. Veener only? Yes, but not tree run, unless you left most of the lumber logs in the woods. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I'm smack dab in the center of some of the best cherry country in the world.   And over the years the swings have been well, brutal.    To this day I talk to land owners that think cherry is king and their timber is worth a fortune.  They are always very surprised when introduced to today's cherry prices. 

[logbyr]

NW. 

We routinely have 1,000,000 bf cherry sales up here.   We grow a lot of cherry and its not in very high demand so u can be very selective.
When's the last time u heard of a 1,000,000 bf walnut sale?     The walnut demand is much larger than cherry demand in today's market.  

[nativewolf]

Well, to me a $4.50 AVERAGE is flying for walnut right now. I've never have got anything near that high for tree run walnut. The highest I've ever sold was 50 trees, about 11k feet that averaged 3.38 when walnut was at its highest in the fall of 21.(That was with 2 logs that brought $10 a foot) Its hard for me to believe anyone in the country gets $4.50 AVERAGE on several trees, tree run. Veener only? Yes, but not tree run, unless you left most of the lumber logs in the woods.

he didn't get 4.50 avg on his walnut.  He got 10k for likely over 5000 feet which is $2, they claimed 3500ft but even then it is less than 3.  He also left all the little stuff in the woods, it was 17 really big trees, mostly 20" at over 20'.  They were big logs.  They looked great on photos anyway.  I've gotten $5 standing once for a special stand, 40k feet in 2019.  In 2021 I think I'd have had 6.  
Expensive education for our fellow forum member but he'll be ok.  He did a great job cutting, somehow got he trees out of those banks with no skidder just a skidsteer, and he didn't get hurt.  In the end of the day you are going to get an "education" at some point dealing with walnut.  He's learned a lot I am sure.  Hope he finds that skidder and gets back at it this fall.  

[nativewolf]

NW.

We routinely have 1,000,000 bf cherry sales up here.   We grow a lot of cherry and its not in very high demand so u can be very selective.
When's the last time u heard of a 1,000,000 bf walnut sale?     The walnut demand is much larger than cherry demand in today's market.  

Wow.. that's special.  I guess when Cherry was smokin it was exciting times.  The largest walnut sales I've heard of are mostly mine.  50-100k and that's everything not just veneer.  I've heard of a few larger but not many but I'm not in Indiana or Ohio.  I would think they do more there regularly.  

[Firewoodjoe]

Only the cream big cherry goes to the mill. The rest goes to Amish mills. It's never good here. Kinda a shame. I always like cutting it. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I used to buy 100k+ feet of logs a week for the sawmill. In all the years I did that I can count on two hands the number of Cherry veneer logs I bought, heck not many more #1's, bought a lot of 2s and 3s. Alot of crooked pecky Cherry UP this way.

[stavebuyer]

A log or anything else is "worth" exactly as much as someone else is willing to pay. I used to get meth heads wander in trying to sell me stuff. Maybe stolen, maybe desperate. I don't need or want a Wild Thing chainsaw. I don't see how I should be obliged to pay Walmart selling price for one. These days I only sell few a stave logs.
Face Veneer brings more but I no longer chase or sell veneer. A "veneer log" comes in and it goes in the pile and makes a very fancy barrel. You want veneer price then sell it to someone who buys it. It's a Prime stave log to me and that's the price you get paid. Period. You want more Google is your friend. When you bring the log back 3 weeks later with splits and checks because nobody you called was interested in 2 logs in June, I scale back the footage for the new splits and drop the grade to match the condition of the log as it lays. The loss is yours and not my responsibility, no matter how many pictures you take and post on the internet. Somebody tells you later it was worth twice what I paid, then you need to haul the next ones to them because I am not digging this one back out of the pile once you leave the yard.

I have seen Walnut sawn into cross-ties. I just used a few Walnut boards I had sawn for a cattle pen. You are free to sell your logs to whomever you wish at whatever price you can get. Not sure what gives anyone the right to determine what price I should be paying. You bring in Walnut Veneer to a pallet mill it's not the pallet mills obligation to pay you anything above pallet price. For all we know all of that buyers Walnut could be going to export sawlogs until October? Haven't seen too many container ships floating around in Nebraska. Should the buyer really just eat the haul bill from Nebraska to IL and then from IL to the coast in order to ensure that log price "equity" occurs with an uninvolved internet judge of log volume, quality and "value"?

I have written a few hundred million in logs checks over the years and lots of them were to loggers cutting on shares. A wide range of log quality and averages involved. I have seen the landowners share range from a token pittance on some products to as much as 90% of the take on Walnut veneer.

Maybe while we are in the mode of judging; we should also discuss what's the "fair" rate of compensation for the entire industry? Plenty of professional crews working by the cord, ton, or bd ft. Is it" fair" for a logger cutting a Walnut job to keep 50-60% when that might be 4 or 5 times the pay rate of a crew cutting per bd/ft or in a mixed hardwood bottom? Inquiring minds want to know? Length of skid, dozer work, stream crossings have any bearing or should we just label the logger who is paying 20% of the gross to the landowner for standing sweetgum as a crook and a lowlife because somebody on the internet was able to sell a few 60' long timbers to an architect in New Jersey for $3 a foot? We should also indict the pallet mill that buys the gum at $.35, even though his yard is full, as a crook and scumbag because someone somewhere sold some for $3? The logger should also be held accountable for ripping off the landowner as gum in Nebraska is really "worth" $3 since some was once sold in NJ for $3.

[Peter Drouin]

I guess you are right, After a man scales a few hundred truckloads of logs, He has no clue of the BF on a truck just looking at a load.

[RookieLogger]

I can't comment on most of this conversation as I've never sold more than a stick or two of Walnut. But I did read a few pages back that the load weighed in around 70k lbs on the truck scale. 3500bdft Doyle sounds pretty fair for a 70k lb gross load

[nativewolf]

I guess you are right, After a man scales a few hundred truckloads of logs, He has no clue of the BF on a truck just looking at a load.

I can look at 20'  20" sticks on two trailers and figure it out as well.  

[nativewolf]

I can't comment on most of this conversation as I've never sold more than a stick or two of Walnut. But I did read a few pages back that the load weighed in around 70k lbs on the truck scale. 3500bdft Doyle sounds pretty fair for a 70k lb gross load

WB- did you find out the weight on the load?

[mudfarmer]

On a lighter note, maybe you guys can help-- my saw is just sort of... tearing, y'know? No cut, only tear

 

 

(Hawthorn removal)

[nativewolf]

So hawthorn doesn't get saw, rip it right out.  We thought of doing something similar for some autumn olive and bradford pear.  Thought it might be cheaper than a mulcher (rocks) but we were not sure.  How much did you get done.

[mudfarmer]

This was in combi w some rock removal and other clearing for a vehicle turnaround so just 10x trees/clumps but needed stumps gone. Did a few others as well while in the area and will be back for more high summer.

It was very fast and effective, A+ I would not do hawthorn any other way than this or mulch if given the choice. If you have hand cut it you know. Wheeled excavator like @Satamax Metavic would be just the ticket for larger area

[Walnut Beast]

Not yet. But the guy loading told the other guy to look at the weight on the scale on the back of the truck and it was 69k+. They were going to haul two bigger longer ones separate but they both said it would be close and might be over. I think the one guy wanted to go somewhere else. So they pushed it on the one. I'm going to request a tally sheet on the breakdown on everything later in the week. 

Somebody asked about peck and wormy haven't seen that in this area. The buyer said in a conversation that Iowa Walnut is better than Missouri. Long and tall in the river and creek bottoms. And Iowa is better than Nebraska with the exception of creek and river bottom Walnut. Same thing from the driver that was loading the logs that had drove and worked for the company for years. When he was loading he said really really nice logs. I asked him if he sees Walnut this size that's this good in Iowa and he said not very often anymore

[barbender]

The reading on the air gauges on the trailer isn't a weight reading, but air pressure. You have to figure out what weight it correlates to. Iirc, one of the trucks I used to drive would be about 80 on the triple axle trailer, and 55 on the truck. That would be for about a 95,000 lb gross, not 135K.

 So was the scaled footage you got for 1 load or both? 

[stavebuyer]

I guess you are right, After a man scales a few hundred truckloads of logs, He has no clue of the BF on a truck just looking at a load.

A few hundred? Scaled Doyle? Hardwood? Interstate legal on all axles including the steer? White Pine scaled on Scribner or INT rule isn't in any way comparable to Doyle scaled hardwood export logs with extra trim and swelled butts.  Only person that scaled those logs was the man that bought them and his scale matches what the payload is for an interstate truck. I doubt the truck driver was watching his trailer gauge in order to calculate the potential fine. Overweight ticket points now accrue against the driver. 
Our main yard will sometimes load 20 trucks a day with interstate legal loads. No such thing as a 4000' + DOYLE scaled load of hardwood that is going to gross less than 80K on that truck and trailer. 
I wasn't there to measure and grade the logs and don't have a clue what the current fair market value of Walnut logs is in Nebraska.  Location is a big deal. Supply, demand, and quality all influence price. Used to be a major log home outfit in Oneida TN. They paid very well for White Pine logs and scaled with Doyle. Thats totally irrelevant to the price you pay and the scale that you use in New Hampshire. 
ERC brings big money in KY. In Oklahoma it's a weed they pay people to mulch. 
So who on the forum has bought or sold any Walnut sawlogs or Walnut veneer in Nebraska the last week? 

[Southside]

A 20" x 20' log scaled in Doyle is 320 BF, in International it's 370 BF, so just the scale used makes a 15% difference.

[nativewolf]

 

 

Don't worry guys we found all the pecked up walnut on our harvest.  So so pecky.

[nativewolf]

A 20" x 20' log scaled in Doyle is 320 BF, in International it's 370 BF, so just the scale used makes a 15% difference.

Right so 17 trees is going to be scaling out a heckuva lot more than 3500 bdft.  Peter was guessing 5-6k.  With the larger trees the errors/differences reduce somewhat .  

[Southside]

Unless someone on here had a scale stick in their hand at the landing when those logs were loaded, then a lot of assumptions are being made.