circular mill knowledge needed

tmroper · October 18, 2009, 08:38:06 PM

I have a belsaw m 14 mill and am having the problems cutting lumber. When I run the cant through about half way through the carriage wants to jump off the track and the cant is about 1.5 inches wider on the off side than the near side. The saw doesn't appear to have to much wobble in it and the track appears to be straight. Any help would be appreciated and I apologize I am green when it comes to sawing.
Thanks

coastlogger · October 18, 2009, 09:36:47 PM

Thats pretty scary.Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Does carriage with a log on it but not advanced out as far as blade go back and forth ok?Any buildup in carriage wheel grooves?Is lead in of saw abt right?Dop you have a splitter behind blade and is it lined up with saw?This is NOT a normal event!!
clgr

Ron R. · October 18, 2009, 10:13:55 PM

TM, First thing I would check is to make sure splitter in lined up with saw. Second I would check lead in saw, sounds like it doesn't have enough lead in saw so it tends to run out of log and push carriage off track. Lead on my m-14 is 1/32, depending on wood may require 1/16. I don't know what thickness you are cutting but try light cuts and see what they look like. Thicker on the off end means more lead needed, Thicker on near end means less lead needed.(the board, not the cant) That's usually the way I check my saw when changing from cutting cedar or popular to cutting white or red oak. Ron R.

beenthere · October 18, 2009, 10:40:51 PM

tmroper
What changed and when, since you reported last month that the first board came off straight?

Do you have Stan Lunstrum's circular saw sawmill book?

It is on line here.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

May help you with info on set-up and fine tuning. Also several here will chime in with more helpful info.

tmroper · October 18, 2009, 11:32:50 PM

Thanks guys for the quick replys
Coast logger
It goes back and fort great when it is not cutting. I will check the board splitter.
Ron R.
My lead is set at 1/16th an inch and I am cutting pine. I will double check it tomorrow. Forgive my ignorance when you say off end does that mean the offbearers end or the far side of log from sawyer before it enters saw. My terminology was probably not correct before when I said off end I meant the far side from sawyer before the log enters the cutting side of the saw blade. Thanks
Beenthere
I tell you what this sawing feels like hay season one minute everything was great the next your scratching your head. :D
Thank you for the link I will definitely read it.

James P. · October 19, 2009, 12:57:57 AM

tmroper, if you go to sawdoc.com that is a ff member saw doc Jeffs site. he has a good trouble shooting guide so does Seneca saw. also the pdf that Beenthere posted. although I find that to be the best for real setup and sawmill maintenance .it will also make you think your belsaw might be better set up on a piece of plywood with trains . makes me feel that way about my mill. :D

James P. · October 19, 2009, 01:03:01 AM

One other thing. make sure the log has no knots or branches or crook that are able to rub the saw collar or nut. that will definitely cause you carriage to lift. All the problems you are having once worked out will be well worth the knowledge you gain. At least that is what I keep telling myself.

Ron Wenrich · October 19, 2009, 05:40:32 AM

Does the saw get hot?

bandmiller2 · October 19, 2009, 06:59:10 AM

Almost sounds like the lead is the wrong way.How much endplay do you have in the carriage wheels??can you wiggle the carriage sideways??Lead should be very close to 1/32"Frank C.

york · October 19, 2009, 07:37:14 AM

For starters,how was the mill sawing before you put that log on????

If the saw,does get hot where??rim or down by the collars???

Tripp · October 19, 2009, 08:21:00 AM

Is the carriage lifting up and back away from the blade towards the end of the cut? I hope it is not pulling the carriage off towards the blade. That could make for a nasty situation.

It sounds like the lead is off binding the log or the cant on the saw causing the carriage to lift.

Are the head blocks tight and square end to end? Are they advancing evenly when you pull the lever?

Tripp

apm · October 19, 2009, 08:48:42 AM

Check your saw teeth carefully. If you had an "event" that went unnoticed, that knocked the corners off of one side of the teeth, the saw will cut off line. If you've recently filed the teeth and problem started shortly thereafter, try changing to new ones. All sorts of problems come from teeth not sharp and square. Certainly check your lead and your splitter, but if those things haven't changed since it was cutting well, I'm betting on saw maintenance.

Greg

Bruce_A · October 19, 2009, 12:15:48 PM

Check for blade speed in the cut, maybe caused from belt slippage.

Sprucegum · October 19, 2009, 02:30:06 PM

I had a similar problem and found there was too much play in the rear axle on the carriage. Sometimes it would cut straight but an ornery log could push it way off line. A couple shims in the right place fixed it 8)

tmroper · October 19, 2009, 03:50:35 PM

Thank you guys for all the great information. I am learning a lot about this mill from just checking out this problem.
It is raining here now so I am patiently waiting (yeah right :() to have a chance to get out and figure this thing out. The tutorials are great and will give me something to chew on.

The blade did not feel warm however it was a different color in the center. I am thinking blue

Ron Wenrich · October 19, 2009, 04:56:20 PM

Blue comes from heat. It may have been heated up before, and you lost tension. That means your saw is laying over. It starts out straight, then lays over as you continue in your cut. But, you should have heat and/or a good deal of wobble in the saw if that's the case. It could be a build up of sap in the area below the headblock, and it may appear to be blue, but not from heat.

Lead is a subjective thing that really is hard to measure. You put as much lead in your saw as it needs to run straight. You can effect lead by filing an angle into your teeth, pushing with the saw guides, or just taking a file to the side of the teeth.

Bad bearing on your axles can be a problem. To troubleshoot, you just go and kick the carriage. If it moves, you need to find out why its moving. It could be loose trucks or bad bearings.

tmroper · October 20, 2009, 10:29:38 PM

A big Thank You to everyone for their help 8).
I really appreciate everyones offering of help. I know that sometimes I will follow an entire post to learn something and the person never tells what it ended up being so I figured I would post.

It turned out to be the lead. I played around with different leads and the speed and got it sawing like a champ perfect all the way through. I sawed an entire load of logs today. Thanks once again for all your help. ;D
Now to figure out where the short is in my wife's pickup and finish the chicken house.
tmroper

woodpeckerlips · November 23, 2009, 08:55:42 AM

Something you might want to look at. Put a level on your carrage and run your carrage down the track. The back side could be falling away from the sawblade slightly or vis vera. Could need to shim your track a little to make the log pass through the saw level. String linning your track and leveling you track are good but there mustent be any twist as it passes the mill.