moving big logs with small equipment

[JP]

 The big beam project goes on.  Some pics of the second big log for a 12"x12"x24' beam coming out.







I'll show more pics when cutting it up   JP

[Sprucegum]

Neat trick with the log arch there

[Kevin]

Nice job laying the tree down, was the hinge bored to reduce wood pull?

[Jeff]

Good Job on the photo posting as well JP!!

[JP]

Kevin: I wish I could say yes but the cut was about any way i could get it  with a 16" bar and a 28" tree //  also missed my target by about 10 deg -but dont tell anyone  /// :D :D  JP

[Kevin]

JP;
Do you know why the tree missed the intended lay by 10o?

[Jeff]

Because it was 60 on Saturday and 70 on sunday when it finally fell?

Sorry fellas, I can hep maself sometimes. ;)

[beenthere]

JP

We could tell (but won't), by the way the tree rolled off that one 'standing' out there. But it was close to target.
Using a short bar does have it's drawbacks, but I'll bet Kevin has some good suggestions that we all can learn from (at your expense and good pictures).  Always easier to look at what happened and come up with what could have been done, but that's called good experience.
At least that one tree that got nailed is still standing (or doesn't it have any branches at the top?).   

Good one Jeff B  :D :D

[floyd]

Kevin, best way to reduce barber chairs ...saw backcut slowlyyyyyyyy so tree will just lay down instead of let go all at once. Good wedge cut is important too...duh!

[Kevin]

The best way to eliminate barber chair is to reduce the tension wood and always use a face cut.
If you cut slow on a tensioned tree it will want to blow up in your face.
Cutting large limbs out of the top of a tree is a good example of this even with an under cut.
Pine just blow out when the chain hits the top of the limb due to the high amount of tension caused by all the weight hanging straight out from the tree.
To reduce this tension an improved jump cut can be used to reduce most of the stress in the limb and it becomes a non event.
It's much the same when falling a large tree with a lean, all that weight is pulling on the fibers within the tree, thus the need for boring the tree to reduce all that tension.
It's also important to have a face that's wide enough to allow the tree to fall far enough without having the face close because if closes prematurely and the tree stops falling it could easily barber chair out the back or pull the entire root system from the ground.

If you miss a lay it's good to know why?

[ohsoloco]

"The best way to eliminate barberchair is to reduce the tension wood and always use a face cut."

Kevin, could you explain a little more about what this means  ???  Mainly what you mean by a face cut.

[Kevin]

The face cut is the notch in the face of the tree which will be facing the intended lay.
It could be any one of the common felling notches.

I have seen where people will just start cutting into the back of a tree without notching it because they don't know what they're doing and the tree will most always split up the back due to the tension inside the tree.
The bigger the tree the more dangerous it becomes.

[ohsoloco]

Never head it refered to as simply a face cut....thanks for straightening that out   ;)

[floyd]

gee, dint I say what kevin did with less bandwidth?

[Dan_Shade]

my understanding is that with a tree that has barberchair potential, you should make the backcut as fast as possible, not as slow as possible.

[Corley5]

Have a sharp chain and make the back cut fast.  Don't give it time to split 8)

[Jeff]

gee, dint I say what kevin did with less bandwidth?

Nope, actually you said to cut slowly which from everything I have heard or been taught is wrong. Kevin can use all the band width we have if the explanation might help just one person from getting hurt. Kevin works with "problem" trees everyday. Its his job.

[Kevin]

One of my customers was telling me the contractor from next door was telling him the best way to cut a tree was to place several back cuts in it, I'm not sure if he uses a notch.
I'm sure he believes this to be true only because he hasn't been instructed how to do it right.
The worse part is someone might take it for granted and try it someday.

[JP]

Kevin: I have a lot of "big" Pines to cut so im going to ask a bunch of questions it will take a couple of days to think about then ill be back//
several things now :: In say a 24" butt how big or deep should the hinge cut be??
almost every time I start the hinge is not level-- tip down even when I
pull it up "more than enough" its still down then I start at the edge of the notch and "trace" around the tree ,then make the back cut// sometimes it works good sometimes not so good.  ( all this with a short bar//) I suspect with a 24" bar I could go streight in on the back cut// any sugestions greatfully accepted--JP

[Kevin]

JP;
Have a good look at the tree first and take your time, you can even go back and take a second look if you want but once you start cutting you are pretty much committed.

PPE always, (personal protective equipment).

You want to look at how the tree is standing and where the weight is.

Don't cut anything in the wind because you'll lose any control of the tree.

A normal hinge can be placed 1/3 to 1/2 the diameter of the tree.
The deeper the hinge the easier it is to lift the tree with wedges but don't go beyond half way into the tree with a hinge.
You should always have a few wedges on hand and use them when ever you can, larger trees give you the room needed to place your wedges.

A longer bar is best but you can get by with a short bar in most cases.
You can put layout marks on the tree if you want, score the marks with the saw then make your cut until you get a good feel for doing it.
Use a level to scribe the marks if you want, there are no rules here.

You have to get the corners of the notch to line up exactly with the lay, when that happens most of the work is done.
Gunning sticks get it right every time.
The notch also allows you to look at the wood inside the tree before you place the felling cut.

If the wood looks the same across the tree you shouldn't have a problem.

Never cut through the hinge wood, that's what controls the tree.
If the tree is straight and well balanced equal hinge wood across the stump is what you want.

With a shorter bar you can start at the back and work into the tree a little at a time from both sides placing wedges in the back cut at the first opportunity.
As the back cut progresses the wedges can be driven into the tree to support it and help lift it towards the lay.
If your bar is deep into the tree and you are almost near where the hinge should be and you can't drive the wedges into the tree to raise it that's telling you something and you should reconsider your options.
As long as the wedges are advancing with the back cut and the corners of the notch line up with the lay you shouldn't experience any surprises.


We are talking about a well balanced tree falling straight to the lay here and anything other than that will change the way you cut the tree.

Trees can always be pulled also with the proper equipment but the cut is still important.

Watch for anything above that could break from not only the the tree you are felling but from any adjacent trees and always brake the saw and walk back on an angle away from the tree when it begins to fall.

There are many good courses on felling timber and I would ask that everyone here at least think about getting proper instruction.

[JP]

Thanks Kevin --All good advice--most of the time Im ok with the 16"ers-doing as you said--it seems that when the tree gets big trouble starts--ill take it slow on the next one and see if it will go better--After snow fall I have 5 30-36" x 90+ft pines to take out. I plan to have some help, incl a 24" saw--hope to take lots of pics--should be fun. JP  8)

[floyd]

Well, heck, Jeff, taking time on backcut has worked for me bout 30 yr now. Maybe I have just been lucky?

[beenthere]

Floyd
It just might be the difference in the timber you are cutting down that makes it that way.
Possibly our hardwoods have more lean and more weight off center than the big softwoods you are (I'm guessing here) cutting down.

[Kevin]

If you cut slow on a tensioned tree it will want to blow up in your face.

Floyd;
I'm talking tension trees.

If you get a good sized leaner with a build up of tension in the trunk you don't want to slow dance with it .
The best way to handle it ...usually... is to bore it and leave a back strap.
If you are going to cut the wood through to the hinge you better get on it and get it done or you'll wear it.
It's imperative you keep up with the wood splitting out in the back of the tree where tension is apparent.
There's a long history of this happening and people getting killed not knowing.
If it isn't large enough to bore then you can V out your holding wood in the back cut and relieve the tension.
Your input is valued here, everyone benefits from these conversations.
Have you had any formal training? Most people haven't.
I know I'm not done learning when it comes to falling trees.

[Ianab]

I you are having trouble with your face cut lining up, especially if it's big tree / small saw stuff remember you can allways recut it slightly bigger / deeper / wider angled so it's correct. Spend the time to get the face cut correct or everything you do after that is going to be dodgy too.

I'm with Kevin on using bore cutting and a holding strap if the tree is leaning or under tension. It allows you to set up the hinge wood carefully without worrying about the tree letting go early or barberchairing. Cutting the holding strap is an event of course, it's holding the weight of the tree so when it lets go it's with one heck of crack  8)

I have no real worries dropping trees 2X my bar length and getting them where I want them, just plan everything and take your time setting up the initial cuts. Like Kevin says you can scribe some marks in the bark to help line up your cuts, I still do that on a big tree ;)

I dont think cutting fast or slow is going to make a big difference if the trees going to split out. While it might have some effect I sure wouldn't rely on it.

Cheers

Ian