LT50 Hydraulics

[JRHill]

Changed out the Blade Guide motor/gearbox. That was the only problem at the time. After that was completed the bed hydraulics were non-functional. Dead. No relay actuating/clicking. All breakers in 'set' position. I just noticed that the manual (yes, I reference it) has a troubleshooting guide. Most of the steps are simplistic but I still need to get up with a DVM.

I hate to tear things down that don't need it so a quick question: Where is the relay that powers the hydraulics? Oh, and yes, I was in home position.

Best, JRH

[JRHill]

I've never been under the hydraulics cover. Dang, there are two wimpy sealed lead acid batteries in there. One bigger and one smaller. Dang again. I am kind of *pithed. Two OEM batteries that have to fit into in a small welded box. I swear that WoodMizer is indenturing owners to OEM stuff and service. Maybe the purpose is legitimate. But of course, there are not wiring diagrams so who would know.

When the machine is running its wonderful. When broken its a curse.

[btulloh]

Hard to believe those are not standard SLA batteries. Are you sure they are something unique to WM?

[JRHill]

Hard to believe those are not standard SLA batteries. Are you sure they are something unique to WM?

This is a battery that can be purchased on Amazon. But forgive me, what I thought were two batteries - the smaller black box was the break-away relay. Well, duh, that explains the  12v.5ah gell cell next to it.
So now I am off through the hydraulic box looking for what I suspect is a bad connection. Most of the posts are not prime. The cadmium is white/chalky but not terrible.
Grrr

[terrifictimbersllc]

What year is this mill and how many hours are on it?

Is it a front remote or not?

There are wiring diagrams. If you have a mill manual set you should have them in there if not you can get them in a PDF from Woodmizer by email.

That's not a breakaway relay, that's a battery charger for that breakaway battery.

I guess I'd be upset too as long as I thought that was a battery that had anything to do with running the hydraulic pumps.

[Jeff]

glad to see you reported your own post to moderator because there was about to be a chat. Apologies accepted. 

[Southside]

I have not been following your post on this, so I don't know what is going on.  What is happening?  Maybe I can help as I have been deep into the box you are now in.  

[Magicman]

I just noticed that the manual (yes, I reference it) has a troubleshooting guide.

That troubleshooting guide may get you started toward locating a problem but I suggest that you locate and learn very quickly how to read, understand, and follow the electrical schematics which are also in your owner/operator manual.  Do you have a Volt/Ohmmeter or test light to verify that the hydraulic power strip is being supplied with 12vdc.

Problems that just "appear" are usually caused by the last thing that you did.  If you accidentally grounded the blade guide motor hot lead, you tripped the Accessory breaker.  (EDIT: fractured information)

You stated that all breakers were in the "set" position, but I question if you checked "all" of the breakers.  Your problem sounds suspiciously like the "Accessory" breaker is operated.  The "Internal Circuit Breakers" are found under the panel which is on the lower front of the control box.  On my sawmill the Accessory breaker is the center breaker.

EDIT:  I just found some additional information in your "blade guide" topic which would have helped my train of thought with trouble shooting this problem.  Fractured information in different topics is difficult to follow.  :-\

[JRHill]

I just noticed that the manual (yes, I reference it) has a troubleshooting guide.

EDIT:  I just found some additional information in your "blade guide" topic which would have helped my train of thought with trouble shooting this problem.  Fractured information in different topics is difficult to follow.  :-\

Magicman, Thank you. After chores I got back to the hydraulics. Tracked the wiring into a box on the front side of the battery box. There I found a big'ol relay for the hydraulics that is not activating. But like in some other areas the lugs were coated in the white dust from the cadmium so all came apart to clean all the studs and connectors. I left it to dry out over night after that. (white vinegar with a small brass brush and water rinse. all will go back together with Dialectic grease.) It'll go back together shortly after todays honey-do's.
BTW, I was surprised when I Googled "Woodmizer LT50 Wiring Diagram" and found that Woodmizer has really good .PDFs by section available on line. Cool.
Next, even if that solves the problem I'll check a bunch of other connection points for the same. It is interesting as we are in an arid place. But I suppose a partially sealed box is going to trap humidity even in a dry place.
Lastly, I am trying to document my troubleshooting steps in addition to input from others who have had a similar issue. I didn't add this thread to the blade guide thread as it makes it more difficult for someone searching topics down the way. Yup, I have a DVM and know how to use it. Woodmizer's on line diagrams are a life saver.
I'll add more later.
Best, JRH

[JRHill]

glad to see you reported your own post to moderator because there was about to be a chat. Apologies accepted.

Mr. Jeff, I'm not foul mouthed but understand there has to be a strict line. I'll try to keep it to technical writing but sometimes I oops. Actually, I thought the substitution was more appropriate (wink). Thanks for y'alls part in running a clean site. It's rather refreshing.

[JRHill]

What year is this mill and how many hours are on it?

Is it a front remote or not?

There are wiring diagrams. If you have a mill manual set you should have them in there if not you can get them in a PDF from Woodmizer by email.

That's not a breakaway relay, that's a battery charger for that breakaway battery.

I guess I'd be upset too as long as I thought that was a battery that had anything to do with running the hydraulic pumps.

2010 LT50 V1. Less than 600 hrs. It might be embarrassing with those low hours but I primarily custom cut for my self with a bit for neighbors. I don't move the mill. To get it in and out would drastically add to maintenance and wear and tear.

"Is it a front remote?" Nope, if referring to the remote control. I prefer to stumble along through the saw dust and around the tire/fender. The reverse is really 'difficult' sometimes. (Jeff, almost did it again). The ride along looks better all the time.

And thanks for that info. I don't haul the rig so that electric brake is not needed. I have thought of this before and I sincerely thought the system battery would power the electric brake, Lord forbid, if it was needed.

[Gary Davis]

there is a solenoid in the hydraulics box of my lt40 and when it went bad the hydraulics did not work

[JRHill]

I have not been following your post on this, so I don't know what is going on.  What is happening?  Maybe I can help as I have been deep into the box you are now in.  

The hydraulics failed. They had worked fine at the start of the Blade Guide motor failure. But when I got it all put back together the hydraulics were dead.
I traced it to the hydraulic solenoid. It solenoid was good but the connectors were in bad order. Cleaned and polished and put them back together. Didn't have to re terminate them - it was all about the stud, lug and nut and lock nut on the trigger lines.  But the load lines were corroded as well. Reassembled all with delectric grease. The rig sings now.
Always, always clean the connectors when you have access to them. It may not be convenient but it is worth it when the covers are open.

[Magicman]

I have never had corrosion on any of that so it must be the salty air or something that I do not have.  Glad to hear that everything is OK. 

[moodnacreek]

A friend has that lt 50 and there can't be rust on the track .

[JRHill]

I have never had corrosion on any of that so it must be the salty air or something that I do not have.  Glad to hear that everything is OK.  

Must be my proximity. I can be salty. :

[JRHill]

Hard to believe those are not standard SLA batteries. Are you sure they are something unique to WM?

This is a battery that can be purchased on Amazon. But forgive me, what I thought were two batteries - the smaller black box was the break-away relay. Well, duh, that explains the  12v.5ah gell cell next to it.
So now I am off through the hydraulic box looking for what I suspect is a bad connection. Most of the posts are not prime. The cadmium is white/chalky but not terrible.
Grrr

I'm all done and ready to button up the covers. I don't plan to replace the break away battery because I don't move the mill and have no plans for it in the future. But it really was interesting that there was the 'lil gel cell for the brakes in the event of a break away. Why wouldn't the power to fire the brakes in a break away come from the system battery? I've looked through the manual(s) and there is nothing in there referring to a check of the trailer break away battery's condition. Seems break away batteries on my various trailers are like the spot and flashlights. They are good until you need them. Maybe its a DOT thing?

[Southside]

Maybe its a DOT thing?

Yup - electric brakes must have a dedicated battery.  In addition to that when the head is in the travel position the battery that powers the saw functions is not in contact with the power strip so no voltage would be available other than to the head functions - so the brakes would have no juice.  

[terrifictimbersllc]

Breakaway system is the third line of defense right after failure of the chains. To quickly stop at a runaway trailer. Before it  kills someone.

It's not that quantitative, but if you pull the breakaway pin and then try to drive the trailer with your truck, it should be as if the brakes have locked up. Very difficult to go forward.

TheManual that comes dexter axles with electric brakes has detailed procedures about maintaining the brakes and testing the Function of the brakes electromagnets.

I also think you could do a voltage test of the battery To get some idea of its condition.

You can buy that little battery on Amazon for about $25 or less.

[YellowHammer]

The little brake batteries and dedicated brake systems on commercial trailers get thoroughly inspected by DOT, annually.

If a State Trooper decides to do a roadside inspection, he will pull the cable pin, and if the brakes don't buzz, you get a $250 ticket.  

The cable must be attached to part of the vehicle frame, not the hitch.

The brake lanyard and caribiner must have a certification decal.  

Of course, if you aren't towing it, it won't matter.  

[JRHill]

The little brake batteries and dedicated brake systems on commercial trailers get thoroughly inspected by DOT, annually.

If a State Trooper decides to do a roadside inspection, he will pull the cable pin, and if the brakes don't buzz, you get a $250 ticket.  

The cable must be attached to part of the vehicle frame, not the hitch.

The brake lanyard and caribiner must have a certification decal.  

Of course, if you aren't towing it, it won't matter.  

Thanks for that. In all my years pulling all sizes of utility trailers I've never been checked. All but one time I hauled safely. That one time... I could've killed myself with a pintle hitch construction trailer. On it were five 4k# bridge deck slabs plus the trailer. I pulled it with a 96 Dodge 1t dually. I spun the tires in 4WD low range on asphalt just getting it started out of the canyon. I was overheating before I got to the top but I dared not stop. I got to the top and let it cool down. On the road again I got to 35mph and the trailer started to wag. Hit the trailer brakes medium-high under power and it settled down. The rest of the trip was crawling along at 15-20mph.
Even funnier, or not so, would be off loading the slabs. I used my Landcruiser with the PTO winch. With the front bumper against the trailer and pulling one slab at a time the back wheels were dancing on the ground.
Some times an old man looks back and gives thanks God he got to that age. The trailer experience is one of the lesser challenges to physics in my life.
Anyway, the LT50 stuff is done. I cut 1 1/2'x 16" boards of white pine off the log that was on the deck. On the last cut above the deck the blade dove down below the shoulder of the blade guide wheel. Under power its an unmistakable noise. Shut down immediately. Now I have to get the blade out. I'm doing that today - I think its salvageable.
How do y'all keep track of running hours on a blade? One would think that the hours get logged manually. In practice it doesn't always happen. Distraction, the wife, visitors, chores, etc. the next thing is ya just don't know the hours are on it. You'd think loading the mill during the cut would tell you but it doesn't always work out that way.
i'd love a dual logging hour gauge. Like in the vehicle. A display for total and one that can be reset. That is not the end all but it does give additional info/

[Southside]

Are you saying the band backed up and is part way on the flat part of the roller guide and part way on the shoulder?  Not really much value in tracking hours on a band as it can go from sharp to dull in 1' if you hit enough sand in the bark. It's really more about how it's holding it's edge as to when to change it.  

If your band did back onto the shoulder then I suspect it got hot from running it too long and was loose as a result.  

[terrifictimbersllc]

Agree that hours on a band is not too useful a measure.  In any case engine hours would include idling unless you rigged a monitor some other way.

How the blade is cutting compared to when it was first put on is key.  Couple that with actually looking at the teeth under a hand lens is very useful way to monitor blade sharpness. For example when you have waves developing and think "I just put that blade on, it can't be dull" then look at it. You will be surprised sometimes. Also looking can also cause you to see that the blade is not dull, the problem lies elsewhere (not very often though).  You can also see how good you or ReSharp is doing by using a hand lens.

A very good investment for sawing and a quality product, I have several of them and keep one in the truck: 10X hand lens

[JRHill]

I agree. Its not just about running time for sharpness. Its also because Woodmizer makes a big deal about hours on a blade do to cracks (not visible) in the gullet. They claim they cut it out during resharpening.  I've never had a blade break in that way and thankfully so. But its always a disappointment to get a box of resharps back and they condemned x number of blades. So the hour meter is not just about sharpness but about revolutions.

Best,
JRH 

[Southside]

Yes you can and should grind out gullet cracks when sharpening, but eventually metal fatigue will take over and the band will fail.  Give it enough time and you too will get to experience The Big Bang Theory in person.     I guess I prefer mine die that way vs a serious metal strike - at least I know I got every revolution out of it that was possible.