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Author Topic: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.  (Read 1935 times)

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Online Old Greenhorn

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Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« on: November 25, 2021, 11:12:41 AM »
SO the mill owner I am operating for broached the subject of getting an RS-2 resaw attachment for the LT50Wide. He says he gets inquiries for lap siding on a regular basis. I did some research at the WM site, on youtube, and of course found some good reading here on the forum. In that process I came across the shingle lap siding Jig that WM also offers. Having no experience with these, I read everything I could find and watched the operation videos. The processes are very different. I believe each of these had advantages and limitations and their use is dependant on one's individual working arrangement and support equipment and personnel. I'd like to put down my thoughts here so that others can share what they have found or think regarding making a choice between the two. I should be clear and state we (I anyway) do not plan an immediate purchase because the workload is high enough and the season is coming to an end (I hope). Depending on the lead time we MAY place an order mid to late winter or early spring. But I don't want to add anything until we refine our lumber storage/drying issues first.
SO here is my simple comparisons:

Resaw (RS-2) Attachment
Pros:
You can move a LOT of material through it quickly
It will do straight re-sawing for many purposes
It has a variable taper angle
It can do unlimited lengths
It works like a true resaw, holding the material down for flat even cuts
Feeding smaller thickness stock is fairly easy


Cons:
The setup time is more extensive, you need to switch over the power feed cable and set the sawhead, it's a heavier unit.
You need to saw boards that are twice the thickness for tapered siding (plus kerf), then setup and resaw them. (I see a decent learning curve here getting the sizes correct.)
You need to have infeed and outfeed table to support longer stock
You need to purchase the single belt ($5k) if you want to also do shingles (we do not.....yet)
It is absolutely a 2 man minimum operation (maybe a 3rd for stacking)
It costs roughly twice as much as the other jig (this is not a big consideration for us, we want the best solution, not the cheapest)

Lap siding/ shingling attachment
Pros:
It can do either lap or shingles without buy optional parts.
It is lighter and setup is faster (no powered components)
It is designed to mill from cants, so one cant = many boards
Price (See above comment)
Less failure points (motors, belts, etc)
It could work on just about any mill, regardless of brand (maybe we could set it up on the LX-25 when we have that running)
One man operation
If you have cants in stock, you can be producing lumber rather quickly


Cons:
Cant handling takes longer rather than feeding off a stack.
It might take a little longer to produce a lift of boards, all in (I don't know this, just doing some math in my head. Opinions?)
Unknown how the accuset will work with this, might be a good learning curve (opinions please?)
It cuts at a 2 taper only as far as I can tell.
Shingle setup requires many small cants and in the video it appears they shift a bit when cutting (clamping system?)
If you forget to flip the lever between cuts, you made scrap (Toe Board Syndrome)
Limited to 12' cant length
It is NOT a resaw
I don't know, and can't find out how close you can mill to the bed, so there has to be some waste in the bottom board, yes?

That's all that comes to mind for now. I am just asking if we can have a discussion to flesh out any details or experience that could be helpful to us or others reading along. In fact to save some time, I will mention right now that if we need a chicken to make either of these work, we already have them on site. Also there will be no time to be eating grits whilst we are making lumber. :D
I know there are several good sawyers here with experience on these, just wondering if you have anymore to share besides what I have found in your other posts. I didn't read too much about the lap siding attachment, mostly I found the RS-2 to be more popular.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2021, 11:19:58 AM »
I have a RS2 and these days it lives on the 35. I would not want to make lap siding without it. Like anything else not every board in a log will give you quality siding. 

Having the RS2 I am able to grade saw logs as normal, set aside boards that will make good siding, run them through the edger to have square edges, then drop a whack through the resaw when we have enough.

I have done a little modification work to my resaw. It has 10' worth of skate roller on the infeed and outfeed and I added a tensioner to the down pressure roller. Those made a big difference in production and quality. I do plan to add an additional hold down roller for material after it passes the saw blade and I think that will help with quality even more.
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2021, 11:27:00 AM »
Thanks SS, you are one of those 'good sawyers' I was refering to. I had read some posts regrading you use of the RS-2 and knew about the in and outfeed tables you added (which is why I mentioned it).
 Your method for creating the rough stock makes a lot of sense and also adds to our need to have in-process storage for this material. How thick and wide do you cut your rough stock?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2021, 01:36:31 PM »
Rough heading to the edger 1" x about 8", then it comes out of the edger 1x7 1/4", gives me two pieces of 3/4" tapered down to 1/8" siding. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2021, 01:53:44 PM »
You might want to try making an ARKY Resaw jig as shown on this page.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2021, 02:48:18 PM »
Thanks SS, that's pretty much what I expected. I assume you air dry for a time before edging?

Urban Sawyer, that's a pretty neat homebrew jig but we are looking to run production and pushing each board through is going to be a bit much. Also, I have more than enough work and don't need another build project. It is helpful though to see these other ideas.          

Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2021, 03:35:36 PM »
Nope, run them green, works a lot better in the resaw that way. The stuff will dry straight and flat on stickers. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2021, 04:26:22 PM »
Thanks SS, that's also helpful and makes sense. I just talked about it some more with Bill and he is leaning hard toward the resaw attachment, said he almost bought it 5 years ago, but got busy with other stuff and is thinking about it again. He was wondering if we would need a different blade for a better finish, maybe a resaw blade with varying pitch?
 From my perspective I am using it to push my agenda for covered drying racks. ;D I am certainly not opposed to 'enhanced capabilities' but it is more work and I want to be able to handle the stock and store it properly. We do have a number of cedar logs in the pile and I am wondering what the best 'value added' process is we could use those for. I'm still a thinkin' on it, but I think he has made his mind up. I am a little struck by the concept of the boss wanting to spend money on the equipment and the employee trying to get him to hold off. :D But we have always had an odd relationship that way. I'd rather see us build those racks and get the edger moved and setup closer to the mill rather than 1/4 mile away and up the hill.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2021, 05:49:07 PM »
I saw my siding out of SYP, run Turbo 7's on the saw and they work just fine.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2021, 08:30:30 PM »
You might want to get your unit ordered sooner rather than later, there's a 3-4 month wait time for delivery on the RS-2, so I ordered mine with the assumption it would be ready by the time I actually needed it. 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, '80's-era Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo. Coming soon: RS-2 resaw attachment.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 09:13:10 PM »
OK, that's very good to know, I was not aware it was quite that long. When is yours due to arrive?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 10:40:05 PM »
Wood-mizer never quoted me a delivery time, but my operator's seat took 3 months, so I'm using that as a metric. I checked my order confirmation and the RS2 order was logged 8/13/21. 
2020 LT-50 Wide, 38 HP Gas, with debarker, lubemiser and operator's seat,  2002 Dodge Ram, Echo chainsaw, '80's-era Ogam multi-rip Gang saw, Cook Manufacturing Sharpener/Setter Combo. Coming soon: RS-2 resaw attachment.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2021, 07:39:47 AM »
When setting up the resaw, have some waste boards to use as test boards. 
We sometimes make planed lap siding after first planing both sides.  Makes very uniform siding too.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2021, 08:23:34 AM »
Lasershark, if your guess is correct, you should be seeing that in the next few weeks. I am not sure if there are different lead times for CA customers vs. US customers. Not sure where they actually make those, but I am guessing the main plant and for you it has to cross the border. That could cause a delay also, but I really have no idea. I am guessing these are not a high volume sales item. Probably MTO. So ordering in January may get us one in June, but I suppose it depends on component delays.

Cedarman. I could see us doing that if we had really nice material or a specific request. It would have to be worth the setup and handling time. I have a stack of red cedar lap siding in the shop that my son had leftover from a job and most of it is ripped down in width to provide them trim strips for the finishing work. It's planed/sanded one side and looks nice. I am saving it for some little outdoor project.

 One of the very few poor business decisions my friend made was back around 10-12 years ago when he got his LT40 he went crazy making lumber, big 2x material up to 12" wide and a lot of bigger dimensional stuff 6x, 8x, and 10x up to 20'+ long and made stickered stacks all over. I lot of it was used in his shop build but he expected the rest to sell quickly and there was no demand at that time for rough cut, air dried. None of his stack were covered and it is slowly turning to mush. The hardwood is holding up but suffering also. He was much younger then and in a hurry. He is still in a hurry, but a lot smarter now. He has the new LT50...and me, so it's a bit like starting over fresh. I am trying to prevent this from happening again, so I slowly apply the brakes until we get some covered storage worked out. Site selection seems to be the first point of debate we are going around on. It's a process.

 Running a sawmill operation as we all know, is a material handling problem, not a milling problem. He has the equipment well covered, but drying/storage is the Achilles heel at the moment. After that, we will need to add on some help and train up another sawyer. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Online customsawyer

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2021, 08:28:23 AM »
I have a resaw attachment that I used to use on my LT70. I used it for resawing reclaimed lumber and it did fine. I never tried to make lap siding with it. I never thought it was that difficult to set up. The initial set up is the most difficult. After that you have plugins to go from sawing to resawing. I do make lap siding with my dedicated resaw now. I cut the boards at 1 1/8x8 this gives me x edges. I can do them green or dried. Most of my customers ask for it dried. I do not use my resaw anymore and don't know what all machines it will hook up to. My mill is a 2006 so use that for a reference but if anyone is interested in it let me know. If sold to anyone from this forum 5% will go to the forum.   
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 08:40:04 AM »
AH, if you were closer, we might be talking on it, but that shipping is gonna cost. I figure that unit must weigh at around 500# or so?

 When I compared the setup times, I was thinking of the electrical changeover and the weight. That RS-2 has got to need a machine to mount it up, whereas I think the other attachment could be hefted on by 2 guys and with that one, the mill runs as normal. This is all speculation on my part, of course.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 10:52:57 AM »
OG:
The following is based on my experience using an SLR to make shingles or shakes (I've heard them called both).  I've never attempted tapered siding with my SLR.
I made mine 5/32" at the thin end and 17/32" at the thick end.
I cut my blocks, using a chainsaw roughly 22-1/4" long.  Then I cleaned up the ends with my radial arm saw and sawed them to 22".
With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut.
The bottom pieces (parts of the blocks or cants that can't be used to make shingles because of the clamping system and the SLR frame) are somewhere between 2 and 2-1/2".  To me that is a lot of loss.
Concerning your comment about 2.  There are 6 small cams, one for each block or cant to be sawed for shingles, these small cams can be adjusted to get different angle tapers.  I played with mine using just one block or cant until I got what I liked and then adjusted all of them to that setting.  To get the cams all the same I ran a board through the planner until it was the right thickness and used it to set the other five.  It was a fell thing but it worked for me.
Hope I haven't bored you,
GAB

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2021, 11:19:05 AM »
WHOOPS! I posted the wrong reply to this post rather than the correct one. Fixing it now, sorry for anybody that read the provious dis-jointed reply about debarkers before I could edit this:
---------------------------
 No GAB, not boring at all, knowledge is power after all. As I said about we have little interest in shingle at this time (maybe down the road) but your explanation of how the attachment works was extremely useful to me. You've clearly confirmed what I had been guessing at. However, I did not understand this sentence in your reply "With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut."
  Where are those 2 points measured from? You say 'alternate the points BEFORE raising the head' so I am guessing you mean flipping the handle on the attachment? If so, then that makes sense. If not, I need a little more 'splaining please. ;D
 Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time.
 BTW, in the context of your reply, what does "SLR" stand for? Single Lens reflex? Straight line Rip? Sexy little resaw? Super long ratio? Some Lazy Reprobate? :D



Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence.


Howard, glad you figured it out. Surprised the breaker didn't pop when the blade bound up. These WM debarkers have so many versions and revisions just for the LT50 alone that I can't keep them all straight. The one on your mill I think is very different than on the mill I run and I don't recall any set screws of which you speak. I will take a look next time though but I think I am running a very different animal. This is a 2017 and I believe there were 2 separate major revision upgrades since this was first built. Plus, it's a wide version.
Sure good to know though and good to pass along. These little things can drive a man to drink if your head isn't in the right place when they happen or if you don't look in exactly the right place at the right angle or misinterpret what you think you are seeing. If you are on a job and the sun is heading toward the horizon, and you want to get back on the road for your 2 hour drive home, and you still have 5 logs to go, things can get even worse. SO I am told anyway. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2021, 05:48:22 PM »
I have one of the older resaws. 6" x12"  I can load it and have it running in 15 mins. A quick plug swap. I use it quite often now. I load it withmy fork lift. I get customers calling me at least once a month to resaw something. 
It can turn out an amazing amount of lumber from 2" material. I find trying to resaw big cants larger than 2" means I have to lift them. 
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Re: Woodmizer resaw (RS-2) vs. Lap siding attachment, a discussion.
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2021, 07:47:17 PM »
No GAB, not boring at all, knowledge is power after all. As I said about we have little interest in shingle at this time (maybe down the road) but your explanation of how the attachment works was extremely useful to me. You've clearly confirmed what I had been guessing at. However, I did not understand this sentence in your reply "With accuset II you need to use 2 points.  I set one at 5/32" and the other at 17/32".  When you are sawing you need to alternate from one point to the other before raising the head after finishing a cut."
 Where are those 2 points measured from? You say 'alternate the points BEFORE raising the head' so I am guessing you mean flipping the handle on the attachment? If so, then that makes sense. If not, I need a little more 'splaining please. ;D
 Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time.
 BTW, in the context of your reply, what does "SLR" stand for? Single Lens reflex? Straight line Rip? Sexy little resaw? Super long ratio? Some Lazy Reprobate? :D

Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence.
OG:
This is an attempt to answer your questions and additional comments;
When I said two points I meant two of the 16 accuset II set points.
I mounted my blocks or cants in the SLR and then took a very thin cut on the tallest one.  That becomes the top most point.  From this point you need to drop either of the two point or settings depending on where the handle on the SLR is.
You must alternate between the two settings to make shingles.  
The maximum length of the block or cant to be sawn is less than 24" because it needs some clearance to be able to move up and down as you move the SLR handle.  I know 22-1/4" works but 24" is too long.
So as you are sawing the up to six blocks change from the set point you are at, get to the end, bring the head back, flip the handle, hit the down lever to the next point, start sawing again and as you are sawing to the end change the set point, finish sawing that level, raise head return to start point, flip SLR lever, start sawing again ....  From there it is repeat, repaet, repeat.  If you mess up you will have thin boards of one of the two point settings.  OH CRAP!
You wrote "Also your info on the scrap part is also enlightening (you are a fountain of knowledge). Now if you are making lap siding you could recut that bottom piece into a 2x8 of whatever, but with shingles I see a lot of 2x7x24" blocking pretty useless on a production level. So yeah, this is good info for the considering buyer. That RS-2 is looking better all the time."
Yes you can end up with a 2"x8" but you will need to saw it out after you remoce the SLR unless you have a second mill to saw it on.
I made my shingle blocks as large as I could and still fit in the SLR.  Yes I still have some left over blocks and its probably been 10 years since I sawed shingles.  They are being used under trailer jacks, under the sawmill wheels to level the mill and other things.
SLR is the term used by WM.  I do not remember what it stood for.
OG wrote; "Readers can ignore all below here, it was a dumb mistake but I leave it as confessional evidence."
I am in no way a member of the cloth, but I suggest 2 Our Fathers and 4 Hail Marys and call it atonement if you still fell guilty double it.
GAB

W-M LT40HDD34 w/6' ext & SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.


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